Post by: Recovered on November 30, 2012, 09:22:17 PM
I have always said a dirt bike enthusiast worst enemy is himself,
I have browsed the forum on and off. Typically I enjoy the passion of other 2 stroke enthusiasts. where I see the attitude of some of the posts, doing nothing to help your cause. Bashing of brands, especially when not updated to cutting edge technology, AKA out dated styling of plastic. Yikes, your Killing me with this type of bone head response.
Remember the Magazines and Internet are powerful and right / wrong or indifferent can sway peoples opinions without all the facts :-(
I have added a cover of a 1973 magazine with many brands. WOW I had a choice when I was growing up. Now other than a few 2 stroke brands kicking around, why in the world would anyone hurt any brand that is trying to stay or get into the 2 stroke market place?
I do know that some of the post are represented as good fun, beating up on poor Maico. I have been around dirt bikes and part of what I have seen is, many smaller importers and dealers of off brands need some encouragement to stay in business. Remember no smart business man would do what there doing. Guess what? no profit in it and a lot of risk.
Again remember rule #1
I have always said a dirt bike enthusiast worst enemy is himself,
Team Zundapp USA
Terry Davis
Post by: factoryX on November 30, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
Post by: beaner on November 30, 2012, 10:13:46 PM
But more importantly, why is there no Can-am TNT 125 in that enduro test?
Post by: Recovered on November 30, 2012, 10:22:54 PM
[/quote]
Good catch about the Can Am 125, I have added the 1974 test.
Team Zundapp USA
Terry Davis
Post by: Super Trucker on November 30, 2012, 11:24:41 PM
Post by: motoxr377 on December 01, 2012, 12:24:18 AM
These are open questions. I don't expect us to hammer out a corporate strategy tonight. In a forum.
Post by: SachsGS on December 01, 2012, 04:08:28 PM
I commented about this in another post and I'll say it again - I wonder if the industry has plateaued and we are into a long downhill slide into oblivion. As an enthusiast all I can say is things are mighty boring right now and the sport might improve with a couple of Euro cottage manufacturers coming on line but it "ain't" like it was. As Herr Zuendapp has pointed out look at the selection of just 125 enduros in the early 70's! Gad zooks those were good times.
What really worries me is what my business background is telling me - that the motorcycle industry is a mature industry where flat/declining demand and entrenched competition has removed any hope of making a buck.
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 06:20:28 PM
someone argue with me
please
Post by: factoryX on December 01, 2012, 06:48:17 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 08:08:09 PM
But, to your post, global warming is not a hoax. That said the emissions of offroad scooters and other toys are such a miniscule addition to airborne carbon nobody should be worrying about them on that account. And as far as population growth is concernded check out this graph. Yes, I have heard folks in the know say that this is leveling off but you look at this chart and the slope of that line from 1950 tp today is arrow straight. The only leveling off in the chart is noted in the "projected" points. We shall see. It also shows that 85% of the population today showed up in the past 70 years or so. This for a species that has been around for a couple hundred thousand years (or 6000 depending on who you talk to). The tailing off trend has yet to assert itself. Humans breed like rats.
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 09:43:46 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 09:52:14 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 10:11:01 PM
Now I don't post here just for my health. I post here because I love bikes, love to ride them and work on them and play with them. I also post here because I am amazed by the simplicity and power of two stroke hardware. But I also will express my opinions on subjects that are related to my hobby - even tangentially. Environmental impacts included. I don't think I should be told to "harden the FI*^k up" just for that -- should I? I simply pointed out a couple of things that related to the gradual decline in the folks partaking in our sport.
Sorry some people don't like that.
Now - where were we? Oh yes, the original post - "dirt bikers are our own worst enemies". I think I would have to agree to a certain extent.
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:17:14 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
not afraid to die citab wether by falling sky or dirt bike accident and i care about enviroments, you asked for argument i delivered.
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:22:41 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 10:26:06 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:32:43 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:43:35 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 01, 2012, 10:46:08 PM
But look, dirt bikes account of 0.00000000001% of all carbon (and other pollutants) put into the air. Yes that's a number I pulled from thin air but you get the idea. Somehow, if people on this world want to keep using the same amount of energy as the typical 1st world resident does for the long term, something big is going to HAVE to change. Probably will not happen in my lifetime and probably not in my kids either but something new is going to be coming down the pipe.
And everyone knows it.
In the meantime, everything gets more expensive (land, fuel, labor) Ergo, the sport is in decline.
Some, please tell me I am wrong on that last point.
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on December 01, 2012, 10:51:02 PM
citab, of course enviromentalists try to shut use down all the time. but i can't see how you could be an enviromentalist and still be with our cause. are you concerned about global warming? i for one am not.What the hell are you smoking?
How is citabjockey an environmentalist? He said that global warming wasn't a hoax, which is quite obvious.
He also said that motocross was too small to make any real difference to it which it clearly is. You could run a cr500 for a week and make less pollution than those stupid amercin pickups make in an hour IF we all really wanted to do something to stop polluting the crap out of our planet then we'd have small (2l max) engined cars and pickups and even if we did nothing else but that we;d make a much bigger difference than if we stopped all offroad sports combined.
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:52:07 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 10:59:08 PM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on December 01, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
And how is telling someone to "harden the f@#k up!" a joke? I don't get it. I understand if you you were joking and it got misinterpreted but I don't like people "bashing" people for the sake of it.
Post by: _X_ on December 01, 2012, 11:11:14 PM
Post by: factoryX on December 01, 2012, 11:46:41 PM
For the last time it isn't real. We even had record ice build up in the poles this year. But hey go ahead and bitch and complain. I think there was thread I started way back with about two pages worth of links with proof that it wasn't real, even the creator of the weather channel stated: "It isn't real." But go ahead and listen to some douche who thinks he created the internet lmfao.
Post by: cnrcpla on December 02, 2012, 12:04:35 AM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on December 02, 2012, 12:26:28 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 02, 2012, 12:47:27 AM
If we appropriated our carbon dioxide output to the amount of trees capable of processing that CO2, that solves the problem. But of course cities must expand, fuel is needed so its not going to happen. The only way I can see us getting out of it is by breaking the fist law of thermodynamics: Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted to one form and another.
Case in point: Two stroke engines. In the combustion cycle, you get the explosion that drives the piston back down. But touch your engine when its running! Its warm or hot isn't it? Thats energy from the explosion being sent into the cylinder and cases as heat energy. And the sound? Energy. In theory you could run one motorcycle forever from just one combustion cycle if you found a way to recapture and reuse every single ounce of energy.
Theres other options of course: bio energy (Which will still release a certain amount of CO2) batteries (which need to be charged at some point or another) etc.
At any rate, I doubt the governments will let our world die no matter how stupid they seem at times. In the mean time, I'll keep riding my two stroke.
Oh and if we can break the first law and we can create energy then we can also travel at theoretically infinite speeds, just a thought.
Post by: Jeram on December 02, 2012, 12:54:45 AM
good now if only the 47% would just die off we would all be better off. the earth warms and cools and species go extinct its been this way since the begining of time as we know it. do not be a chicken little or the little kid afraid to toss his blankey. in the emortal words of bearasso "harden the f@#k up!" hows that for aruement citabjockey?
yes the earth cools and warms and species go extinct, its all part of the natural cycle.
Your comment is technicaly correct but it is simply PR spin for big oil and conservative republicans as it neglects numerous critical facts which are 1) the rate of warming far exceeds ANY of previous warming cycles, 2) the number of species going extinct since human existence is considered a "mass extinction event" similar to that of a catastrophic disaster (asteroid etc)
And at the end of the day Stephan Hawkins reviewed the evidence and considered climate change to be real.
I'm going put my trust with the man who has the most comprehensive theory of the universe inside his brain, not the big oil PR firm
Post by: Stusmoke on December 02, 2012, 12:58:06 AM
good now if only the 47% would just die off we would all be better off. the earth warms and cools and species go extinct its been this way since the begining of time as we know it. do not be a chicken little or the little kid afraid to toss his blankey. in the emortal words of bearasso "harden the f@#k up!" hows that for aruement citabjockey?
And at the end of the day Stephan Hawkins reviewed the evidence and considered climate change to be real.
I'm going put my trust with the man who has the most comprehensive theory of the universe inside his brain, not the big oil PR firm
Good call, but isn't it just as likely that he was bought? You never know what goes on behind the scenes.
Post by: Uniflow on December 02, 2012, 06:36:07 AM
Post by: TMKIWI on December 02, 2012, 06:36:36 AM
If you don't think that stinks....................
But don't worry we are in good hands.
Post by: Uniflow on December 02, 2012, 06:39:20 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 02, 2012, 06:41:35 AM
Petrol company's have no hold over you as you don't use their products.
Which in todays day and age is just about impossible. Also, I was given to understand that ethanol produces more heat?
Post by: Uniflow on December 02, 2012, 06:42:44 AM
Post by: TMKIWI on December 02, 2012, 06:48:25 AM
Looked like you hurt your back at the end of your last race. You were holding it pretty hard. You ok ?
Post by: Uniflow on December 02, 2012, 07:24:49 AM
Back still hurts, what a dumb arss, I forgot there was another hole after the finish line, sat down and hit hard.
Post by: Uniflow on December 02, 2012, 08:07:10 AM
? apparently.I couldn't imagine, what could be better???
Post by: chump6784 on December 02, 2012, 09:47:56 AM
Everything you said was true, and all of it was caused by personal agenda's. Global warming Hoax, Fuel Shortage right Carter tried pulling that card in the eighties, environmental laws borderline terrorism(EPA is the best example). Yes, it all comes down to the personal agenda and screw everyone else. As for population concerns, it shouldn't be a problem. Birthrates are down by considerable amount, the population in Asia will soon fix itself due to the murdering of girls. It isn't just the off road world that is suffering, its everything. You think our economy is bad? We're heading down the same route Australia and Europe and they are suffering horribly. Its all about the entitlements and personal agenda's lmfao.Dunno where you got the info about Australia's economy but it is nothing like America or Europe. We got 5.2% unemployed and a mining boom happening. As far as dirt bike riding over here goes, the things holding it back are lack of riding areas and the price of living. The price of gear and bikes gave gone up marginally in the last 10 year's. The costs now are fuel, food and power
Post by: Jeram on December 02, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
My biggest beef is with the " Climate tax " which is just a tax being forced on us by the same people who brought on the GFC.
If you don't think that stinks....................
But don't worry we are in good hands.
The "climate tax" (carbon tax) doomsdayer claimers have vested interests in carbon emitting industries.
If you look back at tony abbotts (opposition leader) claims about how the carbon tax would ruin everything back last year? nothing bad has happened! the sky didnt fall in, the chinese still buy our coal and steel, Gina Rhinhart's still a fat troll.
Did you know that the carbon tax was not the cause for electricity price increases in 2012?
The carbon tax simply took a portion of profits of other parties and it actually perfectly balanced out. I got this from a well informed sourse from an manager of engineering for Victoria's electricity grid.
The price increase is due to a stupid piece of federal legislation which states that an electricity company can build 'gold plate' the power network (spend more money than they need to) and automatically be guarenteed to make 8%
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 02, 2012, 12:55:17 PM
Quote
You could run a cr500 for a week and make less pollution than those stupid amercin pickups
Actually, most 2-stroke anything is worse than a modern American Pickups when comparing vehicle emissions. However, that doesn't have to be so. There are several companies that are developing clean 2-strokes, mainly for the third world since they tend to use older 2-stroke engines for daily transportation. In addition, those engines that have been direct injected are cleaner than 4-strokes of the same Hp and have similar gas mileage.
I know that is kind of off topic. As is this: The problem with a Carbon Tax is that the worst polluters will be offset by the least polluters. In other words, those that do will not pay while those that don't will. For instance, if you drive a modern 911 (dirivitive), the air coming out the exhaust is often CLEANER than the air going in! However, that person will be paying a very high carbon tax, while a single jet airliner will spew more yuck on a trans-atlantic flight than all the cars in Delaware in a day. There is no way the airlines could afford to stay in business or charge more to cover the tax and/or to buy newer engines. They are barely alive as it is. All other major polluters are in similer straights - other than the oil industry.
Post by: citabjockey on December 02, 2012, 02:39:14 PM
TMK, please make a thread on your day at VMX. I for one would love to read it.
Ok, back to our originally sched global warming fest! Wooo Haaaa!
Yeh good day. Thought the track was shit when we turned up but turned out to be quite good by the end. All the offcamber up hills were a bit hard on the 125's tho.
Looked like you hurt your back at the end of your last race. You were holding it pretty hard. You ok ?
Post by: SachsGS on December 02, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
After high school the kids of my generation could go to the local sawmill and work there for a few years while they made their minds up about what they wanted to do. The pay was excellent and the job low pressure. When I worked at the mill (before I went back to school) I was put in the dangerous part of the complex because I had logging experience. I made so much money that every third month I could pay cash for a new race bike. Ah, those were the days. The mill is now an Ikea store and I haven't seen anything of it's type to replace it. I just don't think most modern kids can afford offroad motorcycles and, as we all know, the latest breed of high maintenance 4T$ has made it that much worse.
Post by: MikeD94 on December 02, 2012, 05:26:33 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 02, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Someday, this will all play itself out and the field will level once again with a "global economy". But until then its quite hard on those that no longer have jobs with good pay and reasonable benefits. Really hard.
And a side effect of all the above is bikes are out of reach for more and more folks. Combine that with growth gobbling up ever more open land and our hobby is some serious strikes against it for the future.
Yuck.
Oh, and I am an environmentalist -- in my own way (wish I had access to bio diesel -- I should check again to see if that's in the cards in my area) but not a very good one. Concerned about the way things are going but not very successful at changing things. I am solidly in the global warming camp. IMHO the evidence is overwhelming but I also believe the technology to do much about has not asserted itself yet. Florida should prepare itself to be under 5' of water in 50 years. Or 200. Well, sometime down the road.
Post by: citabjockey on December 02, 2012, 05:46:23 PM
Speaking of carbon tax...that's just another form of wealth redistribution. This in no way will reduce polution. Also, no I do not believe in global warming theory. That's hogwash. Scientist/media can spin the data any way they want to.
Post by: Super Trucker on December 02, 2012, 06:45:33 PM
, the exhaust on a truck is cleaner than the air your breathing.
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on December 02, 2012, 07:05:51 PM
I've got a biodiesel still at home and run my diesels on recycled deep fryer vegetable oil. I cut the oil half and half with pump diesel for a B50 mix. On long trips I'll go as high as 75% bio diesel and it sure feels good not to waste as much money at the pumps.
After high school the kids of my generation could go to the local sawmill and work there for a few years while they made their minds up about what they wanted to do. The pay was excellent and the job low pressure. When I worked at the mill (before I went back to school) I was put in the dangerous part of the complex because I had logging experience. I made so much money that every third month I could pay cash for a new race bike. Ah, those were the days. The mill is now an Ikea store and I haven't seen anything of it's type to replace it. I just don't think most modern kids can afford offroad motorcycles and, as we all know, the latest breed of high maintenance 4T$ has made it that much worse.
I find that almost unbelievable!
When I was working full time over the holidays I earned just enough so that if I saved non stop for six months I could just of afforded a new 125. For me to be able to afford a car while at college I had to work from 4am til 8pm 6 days a week and from 7am til 4pm on saturdays and even doing that for four months I still had to sell my bike and empty all my savings. I'm not winging before anyone says, I didn't mind it because at the end I got a decent car and insured it fully comp by myself. But damn you made THAT much when you left school?!
Post by: _X_ on December 02, 2012, 09:21:33 PM
Post by: kim wedding on December 02, 2012, 11:31:46 PM
Ii'm a nature lover and a enviromentalist AS WELL AS A 2 STROKE RIDER. First and formost a 2 stroke rider and i've been saying to people for year's cutting pollution is a no brainer. Everyone should build a wind machine as well as solar cell's do as much as humanly possible and then one a enviromental terrorist run's their mouth a person has a good answer back. If they want to keep complaining ask them if they ride a 2 stroke bike and if they say no, that should tell you it's about taking you'r freedom and not about pollution.
As a matter of fact i looked on the internet and it say's there are about 600 coal burning power plant's in america. A fraction of them have switched over to natural gas and they cut america's pollution by 20% in two year's. Seeing as transportation only make's up to 20% of the pollution in america.If that number is correct it seem's to me we need to point it out. Most people when shown the truth CAN SEE THIS IS ABOUT TAKING OUR FREEDOM'S AND LESS ABOUT THE ENVIROMENT.
One question What is the worse green house gas? I saw a show that said menthane is 10 time's the green house gas that carbon is and termite's put more of it into the atmospher than all of man kind does carbon.
KIM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 02, 2012, 11:35:15 PM
Post by: Jeram on December 02, 2012, 11:53:05 PM
It occurs to me that this entire problem could be solved and we could all spew as much carbon di/monoxide as we want if we developed carbon processing centres that converted the CO2 to oxygen. Ie: Replicating photosynthesis.
Photosynthesis requires energy
this would either require dirty energy or an astronomical amount of solar panels.
Post by: Jeram on December 02, 2012, 11:54:54 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 03, 2012, 12:03:02 AM
It reduces emmissions by 1) Investment of the carbon tax funds into the development of renewable energy sourses and 2) by increasing the cost of fossil fuels it makes renewable energy more price competitive!
Touche. Well then forget a high tech government plant, just create massive arse forests. Or find another planet. But thats a few years off yet.
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 12:25:04 AM
One question What is the worse green house gas? I saw a show that said menthane is 10 time's the green house gas that carbon is and termite's put more of it into the atmosphere than all of man kind does carbon.
KIM
Unfortuntely we cant use the termites as scape goats, similarly we cant use volcanoes as scape goats either.
why? because these emmissions are natural and cannot be reduced.
If the termites were driving hummers itd be a different story.
however removing livestock farming has a profound effect on not just greenhouse emissions.
1) Emmisions: One person going without meat is the equivalent of taking 2.5 cars off the road in terms of equivalent methane vs C02,
2) Water: saves approximately 1,000,000 liters of water per year (based on the Av american dietary intake),
3) Health: significantly reduces risk of
a) cancer,
b) diabetes,
c) heart disease,
d) stroke and
e) obesity
4) and also does it bit for world hunger (68% of the worlds grains are reserved for feeding livestock)
how many birds with one stone?
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 12:26:22 AM
It reduces emmissions by 1) Investment of the carbon tax funds into the development of renewable energy sourses and 2) by increasing the cost of fossil fuels it makes renewable energy more price competitive!
Touche. Well then forget a high tech government plant, just create massive arse forests. Or find another planet. But thats a few years off yet.
I assume your reply was to the photosynthesis comment?
yep I agree with you completly
They are currently looking at enormous algae farms to do exactly this
Post by: Stusmoke on December 03, 2012, 12:54:46 AM
It reduces emmissions by 1) Investment of the carbon tax funds into the development of renewable energy sourses and 2) by increasing the cost of fossil fuels it makes renewable energy more price competitive!
Touche. Well then forget a high tech government plant, just create massive arse forests. Or find another planet. But thats a few years off yet.
I assume your reply was to the photosynthesis comment?
yep I agree with you completly
They are currently looking at enormous algae farms to do exactly this
Yeah haha, my bad. So long as we balance out our carbon out put with the environments ability to process it, its not going to impact at all.
Post by: Uniflow on December 03, 2012, 06:25:23 AM
Global warming?
Post by: TMKIWI on December 03, 2012, 07:21:35 AM
It reduces emmissions by 1) Investment of the carbon tax funds into the development of renewable energy sourses and 2) by increasing the cost of fossil fuels it makes renewable energy more price competitive!
I know what the purpose of the tax is and agree in principle.
My problem with it is that it will be administrated by the same wankers/bankers that has put the world in the situation we are in now.
You give them a few hundred billion dollars to play with and the end result will not be pretty.
It's not like the money will just sit in an account for a rainy day.
Post by: TMKIWI on December 03, 2012, 07:27:16 AM
Warning threadjack....
TMK, please make a thread on your day at VMX. I for one would love to read it.
Waiting on photos.
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 10:54:03 AM
It reduces emmissions by 1) Investment of the carbon tax funds into the development of renewable energy sourses and 2) by increasing the cost of fossil fuels it makes renewable energy more price competitive!
I know what the purpose of the tax is and agree in principle.
My problem with it is that it will be administrated by the same wankers/bankers that has put the world in the situation we are in now.
You give them a few hundred billion dollars to play with and the end result will not be pretty.
It's not like the money will just sit in an account for a rainy day.
I personally dont agree, but thats ok.
I actually had it wrong, this is where the carbon tax is going:
"This is where the recycling of the carbon tax revenue is important. Tax revenues are earmarked for assistance to the so-called emission-intensive, trade-exposed industries and for household assistance. Household assistance takes the form of direct payments (the Clean Energy Supplement for low and middle-income households) and a significant increase in the tax-free threshold to over $18,000. This redistributes the burden of the carbon tax away from those who can afford it least."
cited from http://theconversation.edu.au
up to you whether you think its a good idea or not, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and I cant say for sure whether either of us are correct, only time will tell.
I live near the beach so Ill tell you when the water is lapping at the foot of my bed
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 10:55:38 AM
What was this thread about? The decline of the dirt bike industry / sales?
Global warming?
yeah I know, but its interesting
PS: thats what happens when a thread has an ambiguous title haha
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 03, 2012, 12:01:59 PM
One question What is the worse green house gas? I saw a show that said menthane is 10 time's the green house gas that carbon is and termite's put more of it into the atmosphere than all of man kind does carbon.
KIM
Unfortuntely we cant use the termites as scape goats, similarly we cant use volcanoes as scape goats either.
why? because these emmissions are natural and cannot be reduced.
If the termites were driving hummers itd be a different story.
however removing livestock farming has a profound effect on not just greenhouse emissions.
1) Emmisions: One person going without meat is the equivalent of taking 2.5 cars off the road in terms of equivalent methane vs C02,
2) Water: saves approximately 1,000,000 liters of water per year (based on the Av american dietary intake),
3) Health: significantly reduces risk of
a) cancer,
b) diabetes,
c) heart disease,
d) stroke and
e) obesity
4) and also does it bit for world hunger (68% of the worlds grains are reserved for feeding livestock)
how many birds with one stone?
Yeah, just what me need - more vegans. It is an avolutionary fact you know that as we moved from a vegitarian diet to a more meat-sentric diet, our brains got bigger and we developed better leaning and communication skills. A move to a vegitarian diet, evolutionary, would cause our brains to shrink.
Thus, Vegitarians are stupid.
Don't hate me. Just being funny.
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 01:03:44 PM
One question What is the worse green house gas? I saw a show that said menthane is 10 time's the green house gas that carbon is and termite's put more of it into the atmosphere than all of man kind does carbon.
KIM
Unfortuntely we cant use the termites as scape goats, similarly we cant use volcanoes as scape goats either.
why? because these emmissions are natural and cannot be reduced.
If the termites were driving hummers itd be a different story.
however removing livestock farming has a profound effect on not just greenhouse emissions.
1) Emmisions: One person going without meat is the equivalent of taking 2.5 cars off the road in terms of equivalent methane vs C02,
2) Water: saves approximately 1,000,000 liters of water per year (based on the Av american dietary intake),
3) Health: significantly reduces risk of
a) cancer,
b) diabetes,
c) heart disease,
d) stroke and
e) obesity
4) and also does it bit for world hunger (68% of the worlds grains are reserved for feeding livestock)
how many birds with one stone?
Yeah, just what me need - more vegans. It is an avolutionary fact you know that as we moved from a vegitarian diet to a more meat-sentric diet, our brains got bigger and we developed better leaning and communication skills. A move to a vegitarian diet, evolutionary, would cause our brains to shrink.
Thus, Vegitarians are stupid.
Don't hate me. Just being funny.
All good, but scientifically incorrect.
Humans moved to meat because it was a more reliable food source which offered a lot more 'bang for your buck' in the early days, long before farming/crops existed.
I like to think that is why Sam Neal (Jurassic Park) in the meat ad says " meat, we WERE meant to eat it", not ARE
And in terms of evolutionary traits we still have the teeth of a herbivore (no, canines arent fangs) and a digestive system of a herbivore (digestion time and chemicals in the stomach).
These days the only things keeping people eating meat is 1) culture; 2) habit; 3) tradition
I can tell you one thing though, I'm a vegan and ride a two stroke so my brain must have grown pretty darn well haha.
I like to think that Im offseting my two stoke habits haha,
PS: dont confuse vegans with hippies, the two are mutually exclusive.
hippies talk about saving the world yet drive gas guzzling Kombis and talk about changing the world but instead take acid at dub-step festivals.
hippy is short for hypocrite, therefore I completely agree with Eric Cartma: kill the hippies before their djembe drum circles take over the world.
Post by: cnrcpla on December 03, 2012, 01:32:18 PM
Quote
however removing livestock farming has a profound effect on not just greenhouse emissions.I would probably die of starvation before I go vegan or vegetation or what ever. Cows are gooooood.
Post by: msmola2002 on December 03, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
And in terms of evolutionary traits we still have the teeth of a herbivore (no, canines arent fangs) and a digestive system of a herbivore (digestion time and chemicals in the stomach).
These days the only things keeping people eating meat is 1) culture; 2) habit; 3) tradition
Humans do not produce cellulase and cannot digest cellulose, (instead relying on bacterial action in the gut ) however can readily digest proteins, such as well, meat due to the enzymes present
To me, this means that the human body has not evolved to eat vegatables and that we were built to eat dead animals. Steak please.Discuss :p
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on December 03, 2012, 02:58:08 PM
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And in terms of evolutionary traits we still have the teeth of a herbivore (no, canines arent fangs)
Fangs are not exclusive with eating meat, however they are necessary for biting into flesh attempting to escape or tearing tough hides. We have long since abandoned gnawing on live animals and developed tools (with our big brains) to cut and skin our meat and no longer need the long fangs.
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These days the only things keeping people eating meat is 1) culture; 2) habit; 3) tradition
You left off the best reason: TASTE! Meat tastes good. Something vegitables do not!
Post by: SachsGS on December 03, 2012, 03:46:32 PM
Post by: Uniflow on December 03, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 08:33:01 PM
QuoteAnd in terms of evolutionary traits we still have the teeth of a herbivore (no, canines arent fangs)
Fangs are not exclusive with eating meat, however they are necessary for biting into flesh attempting to escape or tearing tough hides. We have long since abandoned gnawing on live animals and developed tools (with our big brains) to cut and skin our meat and no longer need the long fangs.QuoteThese days the only things keeping people eating meat is 1) culture; 2) habit; 3) tradition
You left off the best reason: TASTE! Meat tastes good. Something vegitables do not!
Yes our fangs are for flesh, the flesh of fruit haha. Have you seen the size of the canines on gorillas?
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
Quotehowever removing livestock farming has a profound effect on not just greenhouse emissions.I would probably die of starvation before I go vegan or vegetation or what ever. Cows are gooooood.
Honestly, I agree, Most people probably would fail miserably as you need to eat alot of different stuff. Not weird stuff, just a very varied diet.
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 08:49:21 PM
Cow consumers can relax, Homo Sapien Sapiens are carnivores, or more accurately, omnivores. Like bears, for example, we can thrive on just about anything we stumble across and indeed this is one of the keys to our success. The clues are eyes positioned on the front of our heads (depth perception), incisors in our mouths (just watch a vampire movie) and an ability to hunt in packs, which we use to great success when we go to war and eliminate huge numbers of ourselves. Meat is condensed energy, herbivores eat all day and then carnivores pick them off, gorging only now and then to thrive.
The eyes at the front of the head are identical to that of our ape ancestors which were herbivore. Do you honestly think that half a million years ago some dude with sideways eyes ate meat and then their eyes slowly started moving forward?
Our incisors and canines are no different to that of cows, monkeys and giraffes; for tearing trough the flesh of fruit and vegetables.
As for the hunting, yes we are a very cunning and adaptative species who learnt to hunt very quickly to survive. However That need to survive no longer exists due to modern farming and civilization.
So my theory is, we don't need it anymore to survive, it's bad for you (carcinogenic proven in the chine study, heart disease and obesity), and its bad for the earth (water use, greenhouse gases etc)
And that's not even getting into the ethics of it all which I won't get into.
So your not going to die, it's bad for you, it's damaging the world and its unethical.
The only thing against its is that it tastes good? But I can tell you as a previous meat lover that after about a month or two I felt physically sick when ii accidentally ate a small piece of meat.
Anyhow I don't want to sound like I'm preaching or converting, this is just a healthy debate
Post by: _X_ on December 03, 2012, 09:51:34 PM
Post by: Jeram on December 03, 2012, 10:21:00 PM
eyes in front because we are predators.
sloth
panda
monkey
shall I rest my case?
PS: Im giving you a cheeky grin right now just like the above image