Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: Recovered on December 03, 2009, 06:20:42 PM
-
I know the General posted an article stating that TSM doesn't hate 4 stroke DIRT BIKES.
Does any one want to hear my opinons on why the single cylinder 4 atroke will NEVER compete with a 2 stroke at equal displacements??
Not that my opinions matter................ ;D
But for the record...single cylinder 4 strokes SUCK and have done absolutely ZERO for off-road motorcycling. In fact, they have set us back by years (possibly even decades). Way to go AMA and all the fools who drank the kool-aid.
-
You mean people drink this stuff? No thanks! :o
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s_VvV3R19vM/SRW---kE8qI/AAAAAAAACRg/c63YRTZLCtI/s400/anti+kool-aid.gif)
-
The AMA under DMG (Nascrap)also done a lot of damages to the American superbike scene with their stupid road series.. Honda and Kawasaki are gone (Don't want to be involved with AMA anymore)next year with also Buell (Buell closed their doors...) the 1,125cc bike was allowed to compete alongside race-prepped versions of bikes like the Suzuki GSX-R600 and Yamaha R6, which have roughly half the engine displacement of the Buell. .. Purse payouts for the Superbike class are dramatically reduced for 2010. According to DMG documents, in the Superbike class The riders earning the three (3) highest point totals on an event weekend will be paid podium bonuses as follows: 1st - $3,500.00, 2nd - $2,000.00, and 3rd - $1,000.00. DMG documents suggest that there will be no purse paid for riders or teams finishing past third place in Superbike points on each race weekend. All I can say is hahahahaahahahahahahah :o
-
It seems to be a pretty low time for racing in general. Factories are pulling out of F1 and Rallying as well. Did you know that Subaru isn't doing rally anymore? Friggin' SUBARU, who have the legendary blue Impreza that is the very image of modern rallying, aren't even tossing their hat in the ring. Who knows what'll happen next. Maybe the NHRA will say you can only use a V4 in top-fuel drags, I wouldn't be surprised given how things have been.
-
I know the General posted an article stating that TSM doesn't hate 4 stroke DIRT BIKES.
Does any one want to hear my opinons on why the single cylinder 4 atroke will NEVER compete with a 2 stroke at equal displacements??
Not that my opinions matter................ ;D
But for the record...single cylinder 4 strokes SUCK and have done absolutely ZERO for off-road motorcycling. In fact, they have set us back by years (possibly even decades). Way to go AMA and all the fools who drank the kool-aid.
Yeah I'm with you all the way! It's good to hear someone who really believes in 2 strokes ;D
-
BRAAAAAAPPPPPPPP ;D
-
well in cali on street non factroy plated bikes can not be plated
-
It looks like racing is going to hell. In F1, everyone is pulling out, then budget caps for them also. I thought F1 was supposed to be the premier sport for racing. I want the Can-Am cars back :P No, horsepower limits what so ever!! Then Subaru pulling out of rally. No one watches MX or GP racing because it sucks with all the lame 4 pokes running around. What we need in MotoGP are the buck wild 500's to high side all the new kids to death. Now that would be fun to watch. The only racing doing well right now that I see is karting, and guess what they are running for engines...........TWO STROKES!!!!!!!!! Hmmm, shouldn't all these racing series be looking to see what works for karting or what?
-
If I was going to make a kart, I think you guys can guess what I'd drop in after pulling out the stock engine. I want to see that mother doing a wheelie!
-
i heard something about the 250 gp being dropped this year
and honda got an exclusive deal for supplying motors
-
250GP is no more, it has been renamed Moto2. :( The two strokes will be history for that class, replaced by modified CBR600RR engines. And every engine in the field will be a Honda. I WILL NEVER EVER WATCH MOTOGP OR MOTO2 EVER AGAIN. Dorna sucks period!! Looks like my choices are getting slimmer each year. Good thing is that the USGPRU still uses the two strokes(250's and 125's). ;D
-
How can it be called racing if everyone is racing the same brand?? Okay they do have races like that but how boring can you get?
This will lead to new organizations coming in to fill the gaps in the Manufacturer dominated racing classes in the established forms of racing.
Racers and fans will leave and the manufacturers will be left playing a game by themselves in a back lot of their factories that are shut down because no one will buy there products any more.
Oppps!
Maybe they went too far???
-
I wouldn't call it racing, I would call it a monopoly. Lets hope Yamaha and Suzuki get there head out of there you know what and along with Kawi and KTM bring back two strokes like they did in the 60's. I love the Yamaha RD05 V4 250, and there RD line. They could create some series that would be equal in displacement for all types of motorcycles like racing was in the 60's, 70's, 80s, and 90's. Let just pray.
-
It's a Monopoly!!!
(http://arcade.nick.com/static/Nickelodeon/i/billboard/MonopolySpongeBobSquarePantsEdition_billboard_1.jpg)
;D ;D ;D 8)
-
Racing organizers seem to think that people want to watch a sport where everyone's got the same equipment and it's one man against the other. They're wrong. People do watch NASCAR to cheer for their favorite driver, but more than that, they're there for the Ford - Chevy - Dodge rivalry! When you say that every car has to have the same body and is differentiated only by stickers, you kill the spirit of the game. The same goes with motocross, F1, and every other form of motorsport. Sure, it's interesting to see who's best on a level playing field, but I've heard WAY too much lamenting about over-regulation of motorsport to think that people really want this. Racing has simply become too boring. What ever happened to Hannah's works YZ and the Plymouth Superbirds? Simple. They're illegal.
-
AMEN !!! Madscientist.
-
Hey,my second or third post and I'm disagreeing with someone already-sweet ;D
Previous to the YZ I had a 550 Husaberg and it was an excellent machine-in many ways,superior to any two stroke I've ever had-and in many ways,not.The search for the perfect bike has left me with one conclusion-there is none.I always thought if I had a switch on the bars of the Berg that would transform it to my old 125SX and back again depending on the situation,I'd be in happy land,failing that,I find a 250 2t is a good compromise.
-
Hey,my second or third post and I'm disagreeing with someone already-sweet ;D
Previous to the YZ I had a 550 Husaberg and it was an excellent machine-in many ways,superior to any two stroke I've ever had-and in many ways,not.The search for the perfect bike has left me with one conclusion-there is none.I always thought if I had a switch on the bars of the Berg that would transform it to my old 125SX and back again depending on the situation,I'd be in happy land,failing that,I find a 250 2t is a good compromise.
I've ridden a 470 Berg. I loved everything about that bike...except the 4T engine. It had all the characteristics of every other 4T, such as stalling, bogging, nasty hotstarts and if compared to an equal displacement 2T, lacked bottom end.
I stand by my OP.
-
I've ridden a 470 Berg. I loved everything about that bike...except the 4T engine. It had all the characteristics of every other 4T, such as stalling, bogging, nasty hotstarts and if compared to an equal displacement 2T, lacked bottom end.
I stand by my OP.
If you were riding a 470 that would make it what,about a 2000 model or so?They had some issues-still running the sem ignitions and dellorto carbs if I remember correctly.05 and up are a good machine-the latest generation efi models are better yet.Mine was an 05 and had some carb issues as delivered due to emissions regs in some markets but once I finished sorting it out it ran flawless.No stall,bog,hesitation or anything else.1-2 kicks when cold,one when hot and I never had to touch the hot start once the carb was dialed in.As for bottom end,it didn't have the crack of a 2t but within about 30ft would leave the 250 2t's I rode with(including the one I have now)for dead.Having said that,the gyro effect of the big engine made it difficult to point and shoot in tight woods and though light for a 4t,it was still heavy by 2t standards.Add to that the fact the it would overheat in a tight,snotty race much more readily than a 2t made it annoying at times.It was super stable though,handled good and had enough torque to allow you to dig trenches or shift up a couple gears through the crappy stuff to avoid wheelspin.
Generally speaking,I prefer two strokes but I don't look at things with blinders on so I can see 4t's have advantages in some ways.I also don't believe in judging a machine based on the riders lack of mechanical knowledge or inability to tune it correctly.I've seen some pretty crappy running 2t's as well but I never blamed the inherent design of the engine for it.
-
I've ridden a 470 Berg. I loved everything about that bike...except the 4T engine. It had all the characteristics of every other 4T, such as stalling, bogging, nasty hotstarts and if compared to an equal displacement 2T, lacked bottom end.
I stand by my OP.
If you were riding a 470 that would make it what,about a 2000 model or so?They had some issues-still running the sem ignitions and dellorto carbs if I remember correctly.05 and up are a good machine-the latest generation efi models are better yet.Mine was an 05 and had some carb issues as delivered due to emissions regs in some markets but once I finished sorting it out it ran flawless.No stall,bog,hesitation or anything else.1-2 kicks when cold,one when hot and I never had to touch the hot start once the carb was dialed in.As for bottom end,it didn't have the crack of a 2t but within about 30ft would leave the 250 2t's I rode with(including the one I have now)for dead.Having said that,the gyro effect of the big engine made it difficult to point and shoot in tight woods and though light for a 4t,it was still heavy by 2t standards.Add to that the fact the it would overheat in a tight,snotty race much more readily than a 2t made it annoying at times.It was super stable though,handled good and had enough torque to allow you to dig trenches or shift up a couple gears through the crappy stuff to avoid wheelspin.
Generally speaking,I prefer two strokes but I don't look at things with blinders on so I can see 4t's have advantages in some ways.I also don't believe in judging a machine based on the riders lack of mechanical knowledge or inability to tune it correctly.I've seen some pretty crappy running 2t's as well but I never blamed the inherent design of the engine for it.
I agree, but with that said, all of you who are claiming EFI is the fix (it's not) should see the December issue of Dirt Bike. I posted that info in another thread. I also watched a brand new EFI Husaberg flame out...twice...at a WORCS race. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Husaberg chassis. Hated the 4T. Regardless of tune up. BTW, I happened to like the Dellorto carb better than a FCR. I could get the bog/stall/flame outs out of it. But it would only go 30 miles on a tank. Just like every other 450 I know of.
-
The FCR can be made to work well,it just takes a little fiddling.On one trip I got 92km out of mine with about 2l left in the tank(9.5l tank)On mine,I put a lineweaver jet kit in it,which eliminated the accel pump-or was supposed to.It worked well and increased the mileage tremendously .95% of the time,it was perfect but when you needed to give it a hard crack,it would bog.I ended up putting the pump rod back in but then at low speeds through the rough stuff when you were sort of blipping the throttle,it would load up.I ended up taking the carb off,filling the bowl and activating the throttle.The gas that shot out hit the wall past my workbench about 6ft away-and kept doing it for about 3 seconds.It took just a little throttle to do this so you can see why it was loading up.Interestingly,there was a round boss on the carb body behind the pump cam(almost like it was made for this) so I drilled and tapped it and put in a spring loaded screw and adjusted it to limit the cam travel so I had about a .5-.75 sec pump squirt(as low as I could get it before it wouldn't activate at all)This was the cure in the end.
As for fuel injection,I like it.I've been an auto mechanic for the last 20+ years and well remember standing in a snow bank adjusting choke thermostat tension,choke pull,fast idle etc while the fan blew -20' air over you-brrrr.I don't miss that at all.Mapping issues aside,I think the biggest issue with the bike systems are their simplicity.Most are an open loop system and those that aren't don't have much more than a cts and o2 sensor.It's hard to get an FI system to operate in all situations with such limited inputs.I've never seen it mentioned but what bothers me more about the bike systems is the lack of fuel capacity.Whether just due to the space the pump takes up or tank design or both I don't know but 6.5 l is a pretty skimpy capacity imo.It would be ok for MX but scrambles or off road it would be a curse.