Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Open Forum => Topic started by: SachsGS on June 07, 2011, 08:37:51 AM
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The western world has been flooded with a plethora of Chinese product and,being curious by nature,I had to see what it was all about.
In the first instance I was dumb enough to offer to re-engine a friend's two blown YZ 250fs.We installed Lifan 200 4Ts and the project turned out really well. The Lifans were well made and there is just something about riding an underpowered bike with stellar handling,brakes and suspension.
In the second adventure,I purchased a Chinese 4T 250 motocross.I got the bike for peanuts as it had electrical issues and the plan was to turn it into a trail building mule.You couldn't work on the bike because if you took something apart it would go "sproung" and it took three arms to force everything back into position to reattach the part. The suspension was so bad that when I arrived at the trail head I had to take a nap for 1/2 an hour to recover from the beating I took.I did,however,resell the contraption for twice what I bought it for.
In the third case,and by now I should have known better,I bought a Chinese chainsaw on sale at the local big box hardware store.I thought for $99 I was willing to take another chance (I'm a sucker for punishment).The saw displaced 35cc and it takes more effort to start it then my 100cc Dolmar.Saws are one thing you can't go cheap on.
The latest statistic I read is that Chinese manufacturers control 60% of the small bore entry level market here in North America. ;D
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I don't have any first-hand experience with Chinese bikes, but I have heard if you need a part like a shock, piston, or clutch, you will wait 6-8 months for it.....
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Lifan apparently makes decent motors, and are a popular swap for atc70's.
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I have some experience with the Lifan brand (bought a z-50 copy). The little 50 worked great for puttin around the neighborhood. You could definately tell it wasn't a Honda though. If a kid was let loose on one, it probably wouldn't last a day.One of my friends on the other hand bought one of thse really small 4 wheelers for his kid. It was supposed to be a 50cc, found out later it was a 110cc motor( no gov. and waaaaay too fast for a 50). Most of the stuff I have seen didn't look like it was built very well, and neither did this 4 wheeler. However, 4 year later it's still running and gets the guts wrung out of it each time it gets started. He replaced all the tires due to wear and they cost almost 1/2 of the original price of the 4-wheeler.
Lifan apparently makes decent motors, and are a popular swap for atc70's.
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I traded an old beat xr 75 for a 2003 Jianshee 150, its got a very poor suspension, but surprisingly its got a very strong motor (for a trail bike) and decent brakes, it pulls my old crf 150f easily
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Yeah the motors seem to make good power. It's only a matter of time before the rest of the bike gets better. I wish I could remember which magazine (Racer X, or Transworld maybe) I saw it in but a few years back someone hooked up with one of the Manufactures' and set up a proto-type mx bike to race. Looked pretty good but never worked very well. It was a very interesting article though. I'll try to find it if I can.
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Well the lifan takes abuse from 300lb fat guys out flat tracking on them..lol And the motors are almost an exact copy to Honda motors, there was a large lawsuit between Honda and Lifan because of it.
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The head honcho behind Lifan was jailed by the Chinese communists for 20 odd years because of his ambitions.When they decided to embrace some elements of capitalism the party members set him free and told him to go to work.Now Lifan products such as motorcycles,automobiles and trucks are sold around the globe and the owner,now well into his 70s,shows no signs of slowing down.
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It's kinda a shame the chinese have stopped importing any of the 2t scooters. Some of them did perform very well. TGB ( out of Taiwan) sold a pizza delivery scooter that was offered as a125cc 4t or a 5occ 2t. The 50cc 2t ran a touch over 40mph with me on it and it was bone stock. That companies 2t's ran very very well. I do think we will see more chinese and korean offroad bikes eventually, and of alot better quality. I just think it will take them time to understand what they need to do to be taken seriously in the offroad market. Their focus to date has been to go with quantity over quality, and focus on cheap transportation. If they do decide to go after the off-road market in earnest there will be alot of Lifan's, TGB's etc... on the starting lines. Remember, people laughed at Hyundai 20 years ago and look at them now. Some of the nicest cars around.
The head honcho behind Lifan was jailed by the Chinese communists for 20 odd years because of his ambitions.When they decided to embrace some elements of capitalism the party members set him free and told him to go to work.Now Lifan products such as motorcycles,automobiles and trucks are sold around the globe and the owner,now well into his 70s,shows no signs of slowing down.
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The saw displaced 35cc and it takes more effort to start it then my 100cc Dolmar.Saws are one thing you can't go cheap on.
Sounds like you already did. ;D Poor Sachs and his old German junk.Any true woodsman knows,if you head to the woods without a Jonsered,you aren't heading in with much :)
Besides,we all know you just bought that because the used to be Sachs Dolmar :P
Chinese products are getting better all the time.Though I haven't looked in too seriously,some of their quads are starting to look of reasonable quality,well equipped and with a good price point.Japan was where they are now for a short time-something to keep in mind.
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I think the Chinese manufacturers are capable of building a very good product,it's just that if we keep demanding $99 chainsaws and $399 pit bikes that is what they will deliver.
Dolmar invented the chainsaw and they still build the best, kind of like Mercedes Benz.You should know that Ford. ;D
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I'll give you this much,the new Dolmars are supposed to be a good machine.I've looked at them but am currently happy with my jred having seen the light a few years back and got rid of my stihl.
Previously,most of the older sachs dolmars were pretty grim.I've got a few saws with just one being a sachs dolmar-and that's enough.
Way back when in what I like to think of as my "psychedelic years" ,I had three old Benz's.
Now that I know better,I'll stick with Yamaha,Toyota and Jonsered-primarily because I don't like to work on my own stuff unless I have to.If I did,I'd probably go the same route as you :P ;)
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It must get fairly expensive having to hire someone to maintain your Yamaha,Toyota and Jonsered. ;D
I've owned the Swedish saws but they remind me of Swedish Husky motorcycles - tough,simple but down on power compared to other bikes I have ridden.I own both older Sachs dolmars as well as newer Dolmars and the saws are definitely a class above the Jonsereds and Huskys (same company),more refined and more power - no comparison.
I was at a friend's place a while back,Errol had just moved into the area and bought an acreage.He asked me what kind of chainsaw he should buy and I explained to him why I run Dolmars.Just then his neighbour rode over on a quad and,knowing this guy was 85 years old and had run logging companies all his life,asked him for his opinion.The old guy pulled back the tarp on the front rack of his ATV to reveal a Dolmar."That is the saw you should buy".
An overwhelming favorite of guys who build "supersaws" for logging competitions is the same old 100cc Sachs Dolmar that I have,check youtube and you will see.
"Psychedelic years"? Now it's all making sense..... :-X
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I got the old Husky 380S out yesterday.
The old girl runs like a dream.
Cut up a few trees until my wrist got too sore. :(
You can keep your new wang dang fancy plastic Jonsered ford. ;)
Talking about Stilhs we had some top handle prunning saws on the orchard.
They were CARB compliant and had NO mixture screws.
You guessed it, The biggest pieces of shit I have had the pleasure of servicing.
The manager could not understand why they would only run properly around mid day when the sun was up. :o
( I priced new carby's which were half new saw price )
I finally managed to throw them in the bin and replaced them with Echo's.
Those little things used to run 6 hours a day for 2 months.
Replaced the clutch's each season and that was it.
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I watched it on youtube indeed, those Dolmar's and 100cc's sound and perform quite nice.
In europe, most fire departments use Stihl stuff.
Next time when i see them cutting logs, i will tell them about your reccomendations.
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With any new saw the first step is to whip out the Dremel tool and grind a slot in the hi and lo mixture screws so you can adjust the mixture.I guess it doesn't help if there are no mixture screws. :-X
The Japanese saws are well built but too bulky and heavy.
It is amazing how many Stihl copies are coming out of China.
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I'm no saw guy though I have owned a couple; a Husky (from Husqvarna, before Electrolux) and a McCulloch. I've never competed or worked in the logging industry. However, in 2000 I moved to Florida from the mountains of North Carolina and I boxed my Mac up for the move and didn't unpack it until October last year (2010) here in Portugal. I put fuel in it but found the pickup tube and filter in the tank had rotted away. I installed another (6 euro) from what I don't know and performed the starting routine: STEP 1 - cock the trottle, choke on, pump the bleeder, pull the starting rope a few times until it tries to start (and dies). {this happened on the first pull} STEP 2 - choke off, pull unil it starts. It started on the second pull.
10 years and the little Mac was cutting trees on the first pull. Now I use it about monthly making/clearing trails and it always starts first time. 'Gotta appreciate that!
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Well Sachs,the old fella may have claimed the Dolmar was the cats arse but that just goes to prove how being old doesn't automatically make you wise :)
On the other hand,I couldn't say about the big 'uns.Around here,you'd only see that on a mill.Most use a 50 and 60 cc combo.
I wouldn't touch a new stihl with the non adjustable jets.I wasn't aware it was both,I thought just the high speed was fixed.
My jred is a 2156.It's basically the same as a 357 husky except for colour and the fact that it has a straight top handle(as on all jreds)which is one reason I like them.
I've never felt it to be down on power in the least though it did require slight modification.As delivered,it had limiter caps and a catalytic muffler.I had heard they run very hot this way but figured I'd give it try anyway.Hot is an understatement.Of course,it has to for the catalyst to be effective.I ended up removing the caps to properly set the carb and modifying the muffler.Most people put a non catalyst muffler from an older model on it but I just opened mine up some and tried it,then gave it a little more until I felt it was running freely.The difference was reasonably dramatic.
Whenever anyone starts crying about DI I always think of what's happened in the chainsaw world-I'd take the DI anyday.
TMKIWI,I like my plastic jred but also have a few oldies as well including a '67 R16 Partner and a Partner 500 both of which I had out not long ago just to keep them going.
All of them are tuned correctly and use gas out of the same jug but, the modern 2156 smokes very little,the 500 a little more and the R16 a fair bit more.They have certainly improved with age until the epa got the newer ones :(
My plan is to continue to buy older ones and stock them away for future use-or wait for a new DI Jonsered 8)
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I've got a couple of 50cc Dolmars plus the PS6400 and the 100cc (153).I had a beautiful small Stihl but lost it when some guy B&Ed my truck (probably a Maritimer ;)).
When you're 85 years old,healthy and wealthy,you must know what you are talking about. ::)
The 50's MB 300SLs had mechanical DI,I wonder if this would work on a chainsaw?.
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No reason why not 8)
Actually,I like Stihl and would put the quality higher than a Husky/Jred though both are good,long lasting machines.Stihl just always had those crappy rubber bungs for a AV system.Husky/jred are just a nicer saw to use-especially when your hands are buggered like mine and fall asleep quickly with too much vibration.
As far as which is the best I'm reminded of a trip to the local forestry exhibition many moons ago with my late grandfather(lifetime logger and one of my teachers)
Anyway,we were looking at a restored early two person chainsaw.It was crude,cumbersome and horribly heavy.When I commented on what a pig it was he just smiled and said "when you were used to an axe and a buck saw,these where magic-you'll find everything is that way over time" So far I'd have to say he's been right. :)
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I was only pulling your chain ford about your plastic fantastic. ;D
I used to sell them at one time.
You can't go wrong with either Husky/Jonesered or Stihl.
Stihl over here are just to expensive.
When it comes to small saws and line trimmers etc, I have used Echo for years and they are a good little unit.
Stihl owners are a bit like Yamaha owners in that they think everything else is sub standard. ;)
I feel pity for them. :P
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Lol,yeah,I know.Stihl and Husky are priced about the same around here though many Stihl owners do seem to have the "nothing but a Stihl" trait for some reason.We have a local Echo dealer and I've heard good things about them but never used one.
Stihl owners are actually more like TM owners-they realize they're hampered by substandard equipment but just refuse to see the light.
Yamaha owners are simply more discerning when it comes to their gear. :D
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I've got a Stihl 056 AVG on a chainsaw mill and,while it doesn't have the grunt of my big Dolmar,it amazes me just how tough that saw is.
Gear is an apt description of the appliance like nature of a Yamaha motorcycle. ;D
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I watched some on Youtube..
There are some wicked modified saws with lovely custom made exhausts 'n stuff..! :P
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Gear is an apt description of the appliance like nature of a Yamaha motorcycle. ;D
Only a Westerner would find Yamaha "gear" appliance-like :D
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17250&d=1039887814 (http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17250&d=1039887814)
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Nice chest protector!