Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Non-Moto => Topic started by: 2Strokeruturn on May 16, 2011, 04:27:48 PM
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I want the same hard hitting powerband and fun of a 2 stroke! This E tec will it be the same as the carb 2 strokes but with just better gas? http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4 (http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4)
http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c (http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c)
http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY (http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY)
Watch all these videos
Say if they made a 500cc sport bike or dirt bike with E tec or what ever you call it will it have that same HARD hitting powerband as the Carb 2 strokes but just have more low end?
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I want the same hard hitting powerband and fun of a 2 stroke! This E tec will it be the same as the carb 2 strokes but with just better gas? http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4 (http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4)
http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c (http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c)
http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY (http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY)
Watch all these videos
Say if they made a 500cc sport bike or dirt bike with E tec or what ever you call it will it have that same HARD hitting powerband as the Carb 2 strokes but just have more low end?
It could have whatever power delivery you want to program into it. If you want to loose some bottom end and get some wicked top end rush, just put a new map in.
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I want the same hard hitting powerband and fun of a 2 stroke! This E tec will it be the same as the carb 2 strokes but with just better gas? http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4 (http://youtu.be/8Og0JCGKmQ4)
http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c (http://youtu.be/dYsYEd2RD5c)
http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY (http://youtu.be/IG6KLb8lThY)
Watch all these videos
Say if they made a 500cc sport bike or dirt bike with E tec or what ever you call it will it have that same HARD hitting powerband as the Carb 2 strokes but just have more low end?
It certainetly will not lose any power @ all & it will be very,very smooth yet aggressive! As juliend stated it can also be programed to run many different power curves & I personally can't wait for a DI 2-stroke dirtbike to come out!!! ;D
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What could make the engine smoother to use is variable intake/exhaust geometry, this already existed for two strokes in a form of reed valves and exhaust port valves. The engine will still however have to be designed around a certain speed range for it's maximum power, I don't think the two strokes will be "neutered".
Perhaps at the same time we could also give the four strokes some balls, with forced induction, oh wait, bearing lubrication, more weight, charge-cooling, fail fail fail. Ahaaa :D
Let's keep it simple 8)
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I say let the four-strokes use forced induction. Then they might actually be able to rival a two-stroke in power per unit displacement, and if that means they're $5000 more expensive and blow up in half the time as now, then it means all the more market demand for two-strokes.
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A guy in my area builds turbocharger kits for 2T snowmobiles,now if you want power....
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The first(just oneof the many) small hurdle you have to overcome with the 2T DI fairytale is Orbital and Ficht hold all the current patents, the royalties that would have to be paid would render any ROI a long long way off in the future.
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Somehow this issue has been handled in the snowmobile AND outboard motor world already. If ROI didn't work on those machines I don't think they would have been on the market for the last few years...
The first(just oneof the many) small hurdle you have to overcome with the 2T DI fairytale is Orbital and Ficht hold all the current patents, the royalties that would have to be paid would render any ROI a long long way off in the future.
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AFAIK BRP and Evinrude developed their own systems,they have pockets deep enough, and alternate sales to off set the investment needed.
If there were no hurdles why has not any motorcycle manufacturer embraced either direct or straight EFI on a 2 stroke engine?
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The new Ossa trials bikes are FI and,from what I have heard, are selling very well.There are obviously significant hurdles to overcome in the application of DI to offroad 2T motorcycles and,given the present economic climate,it seems manufacturers are sucking up to the 4T crowd while using us 2T diehards to help fund their 4T development programs.I just spoke to an American friend and he said 4 bangers blowing up have helped kill motocross in his area.Bill also said that when DI 2Ts come out he will be first in line to buy one (he rides a Husky WR250). :-X
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There are probably several unique challenges for DI in dirt bikes that snow and water folks do not have to deal with. One is the sheer pounding our machines take over the rough stuff, another is the really dirty environment (I can just picture what a dirty air filter on a dusty day would do to DI injectors) and the last is our light weight and compact packaging priority. These are either not an issue on boats/snowmobiles or are not so severe as in our world. I *believe* this is where the delay is coming from, but that's just from me. I have no inside knowledge of course...
AFAIK BRP and Evinrude developed their own systems,they have pockets deep enough, and alternate sales to off set the investment needed.
If there were no hurdles why has not any motorcycle manufacturer embraced either direct or straight EFI on a 2 stroke engine?
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I believe the best chance is Can-Am.
BRP own Evinrude,Ski-Doo, Can-Am and most importantly Rotax.
Problem is the economic climate.
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I don't expect KTM to do a DI 2 stroke soon.
As they have clearly stated they will keep the carburators as long as they can, or
as long as the tolerating rules of sanctioning boards will let them...
I expect one of the smaller Euro brands to do it first,
that's IF it happens...
Or maybe a bigger company, like Husaberg (known for radical changes / innovations) or Rotax or BMW.
If only they should try something for a road legal 320-500cc 2 stroke enduro! ;D
Altho i must say,
i am equally charmed by, or happy with- a propperly well jetted carburetted 2 stroke!
If they change the 2 stroke, they must prove us that it's better in every aspect,
if not, otherwise I will just stick to the trusty carburators. . .
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My question would be why would you even want it? Same with fuel injection. The appeal of 2-strokes is 3 fold for me: 1) cost 2) weight 3) ease to repair. By adding electronics, fuel pumps, or anything else besides a stone-age carb you're taking away all 3 of those advantages. To me if 2-strokes want to really make a comeback they need to approach things completely different. Build a bare bones race bike the public can buy at half the price of anything currently out.
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My question would be why would you even want it? Same with fuel injection. The appeal of 2-strokes is 3 fold for me: 1) cost 2) weight 3) ease to repair. By adding electronics, fuel pumps, or anything else besides a stone-age carb you're taking away all 3 of those advantages. To me if 2-strokes want to really make a comeback they need to approach things completely different. Build a bare bones race bike the public can buy at half the price of anything currently out.
Things being what they are these days,enviro-wise anyway,if you stick with your criteria,the number of 2t's you'll be able to buy new in a few short years will be zero.
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Idk about that.
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If you want something light, cheap, and easy to repair then I recommend getting an air-cooled Suzuki or Yamaha, preferably the ones before long-travel suspension and reed valves came onto the scene. Those things were indestructible, and they had about as many moving parts as a folding lawn chair. They were very light, too, because they were small. Was the performance up to par? No, not really, especially if you're into racing. But hey, you didn't mention performance as being one of your criteria!
As I've said before, I will welcome DI so long as the benefits outweigh the costs. If it can produce a two-stroke that is okay on emissions, and perhaps provide an increase in performance (unburned hydrocarbons = wasted power) then I think that will be more than enough to offset the increase in purchase price. I'm not convinced that maintenance costs will go up tremendously, because it's my impression that this hasn't been an issue where DI has been tried already. The one concern I have is that parts availability 35 years from now might be a problem, but apparently I'm the only person on the planet who cares about that, so whatever.
Besides, if you're happy with a 2009 YZ250 today, and a fleet of new DI bikes come out that in your opinion aren't as good... just keep the 2009 YZ250! Unless it's made illegal to run that bike in whatever event you're doing, you'll have a damn good machine to rely on.
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My question would be why would you even want it? Same with fuel injection. The appeal of 2-strokes is 3 fold for me: 1) cost 2) weight 3) ease to repair. By adding electronics, fuel pumps, or anything else besides a stone-age carb you're taking away all 3 of those advantages. To me if 2-strokes want to really make a comeback they need to approach things completely different. Build a bare bones race bike the public can buy at half the price of anything currently out.
Hi folks, I've always been a fan of 2 strokers and like most of you over here, would love to see them back... that being said it has been a while i am reading silently the forum and eventually here re my 2 cents from french magazines; one i read one year ago, where a KTM manager interview said as everyone here already know: they do have the DI techno set and working fine. Now from an other add in an other magazine this month: yes ktm has it, but as stated above from other posts, it will be more expensive, more complicated techno... hence what mentioned in the the last post above!
Europe is very very stringent when comes eco bullcrap and pollution, yet still ktm will be reluctent and do every not to introduce their DI stuff. They said in the said mag do not expect it until 2014/2015... sad if could be! Hope they re wrong though!
Now in the same paper a mention from Ossa the old trial bikes brand whom came back with their akward 2 stroke injected are working toward an enduro bike 2 stroke for the upcoming year. The engine seems to be on the bench test at the moment and frame is also supposely innovative as is the trial one...
wait and see 2 stroker fellas, hopes the skies gone be better for us all dreamers, albeit DI may change lubrication and thus smell of oil burn that I delight over here when a moped get passed down the streets of old europe!
davy