Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Vintage Two Strokes => Topic started by: JohnN on December 22, 2009, 10:36:32 AM
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This should be pretty easy for all you vintage hounds on here.....
What make, model and year is this from??
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/YZ_John/Clutch.jpg)
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Hummmm...........looks like right side kick, Bing carb and some kind of baloney slicer induction. I give.
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Anyone else??? I really thought the orange frame would give it away!!!
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Ok, I'll take the bullet. I'll say...........KaToom. Seems they had some some baloney slicer 2T's at on time. And for all you who live east of the 'Sippi river, it would be called a Penton. Shoot away.
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1979 Can Am 250......
(http://www.rtrmoto.com/bikes/1979_mx5_250.jpg)
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Dang it. My brother owns a 1983 Can AM 500. We are going to plate the cylinder (after I port it), split the cases and replace the seals and then take it out for a spin. It's a cool bike. I need to get off my can..............
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I knew it was a Can-Am. The rotary valve gave it away. Year and size were tough, though. Alright, let's try one of mine.
(http://www.ocscottie.com/new/uploads/husky.jpg)
It's obviously a Husky 390, but can you tell me what thing sets this Husky apart from all the others? For bonus points, give me the year.
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The green tank gives it away... it's an automatic transmission... the year escapes me... 1983??
Nice girl... is she a friend of yours?? ;D
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Looks like a 81" 250 mxb CAN-AM.
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I found the picture on Google. And dude... 1983? Seriously? Huskies were WHITE in '83. Anyway, this is a '78, which is identifiable by the frame, which was only used that year. Next up!
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/JETZcorp/DSC02417.jpg)
From left-to-right, can you tell the displacement of these three bikes?
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JETZcorp I think 400,maybe a 450. Then 250,250
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Wrong across the board. :P
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Johasus guys, you need to brush up on your Husqology.
360
430
390
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Truth be told I'm not a big Husky fan.... nice bikes but not for me. Up until recently I was a died in the wool Jap bike fan, with leaning towards Yamaha's... the past 12 years have cured me of that!!
Now I'm open to bikes from all parts of the world. And I'll take new over old any day! I love looking at those old machines, but would rather ride something built in this decade, thank you very much.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/2996074170_a714f9faea_o.jpg)
You'll never get this one! Take a whack at this ugly heap.
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That one is a frankenstein machine if I ever saw one!!
Look like a Rickman or Franks frame, with Maico forks, while it says CCM on the tank, I'm not sure with the right side shift motor, maybe a Triumph??? I like how they cut out the fins to "improve" cooling??
About a 1977 or 1978 as a guess.
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I think it's a CCM. They are still producing bikes (all 4T from what I remember). Except for the antiquated engine that bike was cool. Leading axle forks, long travel rear with 2 shocks (as it should be to this day). Junk the engine and we could talk.
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Its a Clews Competition Machine, with a hot-rod BSA motor.
Like this
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1736/ccma.jpg) (http://img301.imageshack.us/i/ccma.jpg/)
Not a two stroke, but has a powerband like a 45hp 125
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Alright, anyone else want to take a shot at tricking the audience?
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Anyone?
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/2996074170_a714f9faea_o.jpg)
You'll never get this one! Take a whack at this ugly heap.
I'd give that one a bit of respect from the point of view that at least it's a "proper" four stroke i.e. a four stroke that plays on it's own strengths and doesn't try to act like a two-stroke.
Also bear in mind that they took on the 2-strokes with some dignity, 500 v 500, all fair and even.
I remember competing against a guy many years ago who run one of them on "dope" as we referred to it back then, it was some sort of methanol mix and he obviously had lots of engine work done as well. But when he nailed it exiting a corner it was like all hell broke loose, we were racing on fresh dirt/grass and the barrage of stuff from his back wheel was mighty. I was on a just freshly run in 490 Maico (lets you see how long ago it was although to be fair I was very young) and had no answer to the drive he had out of the turns, the corners themselves was where I had to try and make it up.
In short, if someone gave me one of them I could swallow my pride sufficiently to accept it!
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If I was forced to pick a four-stroke (I know, I've said this about ten bikes already, but to hell with it) I'd probably have to pick a late model BSA, like a '72 B50MX. Those were some properly good-looking bikes. The engine was ugly but the rest looked quite nice. Though a hardcore BSA man would hate me for it, I'd probably want to put a nice rotary-valve Kawasaki motor in it.
(http://motorbikearchives.com/images/thumbnails/bike%20tests/1972%20BSA%20B50T/1972-BSA-B50T-0_ae34e7358a39e2ab31a5b0f3fd5220b3.jpg)
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This is a stunning example of the BSA.... it's a 1970 MX 500cc.
(http://www.kevingerard.com/BSA%20MX%20Racer.jpg)
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I like the one I posted better. :P The tank and engine just look more attractive to me, whereas that one looks like someone cut a Harley engine in half, stuck a drain-pan on the top for a tank, and called it an MX bike. I do like the pipe a lot better, though, and the number plate is better.
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Thos rotary valve rotax engines ran strong.My dad had a 79 SWM250 with that engine and it used to pull KTM400's.His buddies used to hang there heads in shame. :D
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I agree with mms.At least it was a "proper" 4t and they didn't have a displacement advantage.Thos are the two big things that I have A problem with these days.
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This should be pretty easy for all you vintage hounds on here.....
What make, model and year is this from??
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/YZ_John/Clutch.jpg)
I am far to late for this to name but would have being easy for me because I have on.(at least same type of engine.
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7889/1006115.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/1006115.jpg/)
This 175 Rotax engine is out of a TNT from 1975
[IMG=http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3971/mr232.jpg]http://[/img] (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/mr232.jpg/)
This bike was given to me a few weeks ago as late christmasgift from a old KTM customer and friend...
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9574/dsc02152n.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/dsc02152n.jpg/)
From the typically TRAIL bike I will create this one.A bit more a la competition. ;D
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;D"Name that engine and the name of the bike"
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4821/1005756.jpg) (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/1005756.jpg/)
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The cylinder looks vaguely Husqvarna, but nothing else does. The frame looks a little like an '81 Maico, but not enough. This must be one of them there strange European bikes we don't get out here very often. There are a lot of vintage brands that are fairly common on the East Coast (not to mention Europe itself!) that we don't see here on the West.
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The cylinder looks vaguely Husqvarna, but nothing else does. The frame looks a little like an '81 Maico, but not enough. This must be one of them there strange European bikes we don't get out here very often. There are a lot of vintage brands that are fairly common on the East Coast (not to mention Europe itself!) that we don't see here on the West.
ANYBODY else???? :D
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Helmut,
Would a Sach's motor in a Hercules be close.
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Helmut,
Would a Sach's motor in a Hercules be close.
Yes.It is a SACHS MC engine in a frame build bei Hercules for SACHS and therefore never called Hercules but SACHS MC Grand Prix.
This bike was created for the MX grand prix only.
A light weight frame (very much different then the Hercules GS frame),and the (at that time) pretty modern SACHS engine which housed a 7 speed tranny in all GS models,but came for the 250 MX as a 5 speeder.
Just by pulling a pin out of the shifter drum would make it a 6 speeder and just by adding 1 gear you had a 7 Speeder.This bike ,because of his better handling( and more suspension) and lighter weight was Quickly modified into a GS ( OFF ROAD) for the ISDTs.The horizontly split cases made a tranny or crank replacement very quick and easy.
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1510/sachsmc250.png) (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/sachsmc250.png/)
Here the original SACHS MC 250 (ridden by Willi Bauer)
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7523/sachsgp78andfrankstaci.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/sachsgp78andfrankstaci.jpg/)
Here the US model raced by Frank Stacy.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5291/11hsachs250bv7pj3.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/11hsachs250bv7pj3.jpg/)
Here a modif.Sachs for ISDT events.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7008/1005765.jpg) (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/1005765.jpg/)(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8849/hercules7apicsandinfos1c.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/hercules7apicsandinfos1c.jpg/)
My personal modif.Sachs for Canada in the 70s
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7008/1005765.jpg) (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/1005765.jpg/)
my latest mods.Reeds and Nicasil and spec.pipe.
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Gotta love Willi Bauer. I've never really had any experience with Sachs, but I appreciate a good-looking bike. Interesting shocks there, too.
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Gotta love Willi Bauer. I've never really had any experience with Sachs, but I appreciate a good-looking bike. Interesting shocks there, too.
When Sachs realised that part of modification was (at least in the US,) that people put FOX Air shocks onto the SACHS,they did not like that. Sachs had this springles shocks themselfe.
Just oil and air,air pessure adjustable whithin the bladder in the reservoir.
Called SACHS-HYDRO-CROSS.
The beauty on this shocks is,easy to maintenance.Oilchange in about 10 minutes.(taken the shocks off the frame is the only time involved.
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WOW! Helmut is certainly expanding my education on many things......
Those Sachs shocks are really nice looking. Did you get a chance to race with them? How did they work?
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WOW! Helmut is certainly expanding my education on many things......
Those Sachs shocks are really nice looking. Did you get a chance to race with them? How did they work?
As a Hercules Dealer in Canada ( 1976) we complained about the standard Marzocchi shocks on our new 7 speeder.
So SACHS send us the first Hydro Crosser over for testing and instantly we hat performance.
From that day on we did not even look at any other shocks to the day.
There is no Vintage bike in my possession withouth.
Two of them are lighter then ONE Single WP shock.And customers who rode my bikes could not believe how good they feel.
In one of our Enduros ,we Vintage riders started last.We cut up to late modern class riders and in a very long wupdido stretch I could pass a bunch of them.They spoke to me after the event and where impressed in what straight line I could ride trough the wups,when they had all hands full to keep there bikes under controll.
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3810/0000055.jpg) (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/0000055.jpg/)
[IMG=http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8589/1006167.jpg][/IMG] (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/1006167.jpg/)
The CAN-AM since yesterday.
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Anytime someone on a vintage bike causes confused looks of awe and wonder to appear on the faces of modern riders, I'm happy. I've seen some pretty interesting expressions on peoples' faces as I go ripping by their camp at freeway speed on my ancient European weird machine. I have never, and I do mean NEVER, seen someone go as fast as our little riding group. You see a lot of idiots going way too fast on trails and such, but when it comes time to hit a fast road, we're the only ones lofting the front wheel over dried-out puddles at 60mph. It's great.
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Herr Classen,
I own a 1979 Hercules GS6 250 with factory Sachs airshocks.It is my alltime favorite motorcycle.When Fichtel and Sachs discontinued offroad motorcycle production it truly was a sad day and then accountants and shareholders gutted and dismembered the company.Sachs had such incredible potential and they through it all away. The company could have been where KTM is now - in the 70's you could have taken the KTM factory and shoved it into one of F & S's warehouses in Schweinfurt, that's how big they were.By the way,how is Mr.Kempter doing these days?
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Hello Mr.Sachs GS.
Do we know each other??
Your SACHS GS sounds familiaer....
Maybe from a other FORUM somewhere???
Anywhy,it seems to me that you know a little of the history from Sachs Hercules.
How did you come to the name Horst Kempter??
Are you living in Canada??
Have you met Horst once ??
Give me a bit of YOUR history.
Send me a few pictures of your SACHS baby.
Lets talk by knowing each other a bit more then SACHS GS.
Cheers...
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What is the procedure for loading images?
Hello Mr.Clasen,
My name is Carl Heldt, I live in Kamloops,British Columbia and I used to own a business (motorsports) in Vancouver.You probaly don't remember but we spoke by telephone a couple of times.I raced a GS7 and a GS6 as a kid in the late 70's.I got to know Mr.Kempter during this time and ,yes, my German is very "rusty".I'm quite certain you met a friend and riding partner of mine, the late Dan Amor.Dan was a multi medalist at the ISDT/ISDE.I'm busy restoring a 1251 6B and my GS6 250.When I'm done I will send you pictures.Thanks.
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What is the procedure for loading images?
Hello Mr.Clasen,
My name is Carl Heldt, I live in Kamloops,British Columbia and I used to own a business (motorsports) in Vancouver.You probaly don't remember but we spoke by telephone a couple of times.I raced a GS7 and a GS6 as a kid in the late 70's.I got to know Mr.Kempter during this time and ,yes, my German is very "rusty".I'm quite certain you met a friend and riding partner of mine, the late Dan Amor.Dan was a multi medalist at the ISDT/ISDE.I'm busy restoring a 1251 6B and my GS6 250.When I'm done I will send you pictures.Thanks.
OK Carl.Thats better.
Yes of course I know Dany Amor.I rode ISDT in Austria with him.
Horst Kempter past away in Montreal many years ago.Out of the blue in his VAN he got a hearth attack,was able to steer the Van out of traffic and past away behind the steering wheel.
To send pics I use IMAGESHACK.
It,s very simple and fast.
When you say GS 7 you mean a Hercules with a 7 speed engine??
And your GS 6 is a modified MC 250 SACHS 6 speeder????
Cheers....
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Helmut,
I am sorry to hear about Horst.It doesn't seem that long ago that I spoke to him.He eventually sold the bike,but he always promised me a ride on his factory wankel sixdays.Horst told me that he sold the bike to a collector in the U.S..On a happier note,the GS6 250 was sold in Canada but not the U.S. and was a 6 speed ISDT qualifier based on the motocross chassis.If you go to the Greg's Cycle website (Calgary) he has an image of one posted.The motor was FAR superior to the Husqvarna 250 I raced in 1980.
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I forgot to mention that when I purchased my GS6 from Horst he put on a set of factory Ceriani's from an MC250 he had.
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I forgot to mention that when I purchased my GS6 from Horst he put on a set of factory Ceriani's from an MC250 he had.
Hello Carl.
I dont understand.
All SACHS MC 250s came with long Marzocchis and the HERCULES GS models came with shorter Ceriani,s.
Do you have extreme short legs that he swapt forks from high to low???
And if so,the SACHS would be pointed down in the front(bad handling) unless you would put shorter shocks in the rear to get the bike back into balance....
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Hello Helmut,
I'm almost 1.93 metres in height (6-5).The reason that I pursuaded Horst to give me the Ceriani's is that the forks had 13mm more travel then the Zoke's and far superior action.These Ceriani's were special forks that he had on a Sachs MC250 and the travel exceeded that of the stock Marzocchis. On a different subject,where did you get that reed cylinder?
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Hello Helmut,
I'm almost 1.93 metres in height (6-5).The reason that I pursuaded Horst to give me the Ceriani's is that the forks had 13mm more travel then the Zoke's and far superior action.These Ceriani's were special forks that he had on a Sachs MC250 and the travel exceeded that of the stock Marzocchis. On a different subject,where did you get that reed cylinder?
Somebody on the German Offroad forum offered the cylinder.I talked to him and we made a deal.What came was a reed cylinder where somebody with the wrong tools pulled the liner out and made the inner diameter oval plus they cracked one fin.(the bugger never told me that.) ::)
I send the cylinder and a new 250 Piston to a company in Quebec,asking them to,fabrikate a new sleeve,port it and fit to the piston and mentioned my dream would be Nicasil.
They called me and said,no Nicasil on top of a SLEEVE,but they had to weld the inner bore anyway to get it round,so why not adding some more layers of alu welding,bore it,port it and Nicasil it to fit.
I was in heaven,they did,(they welded the cracket fin over beautyfully) and I have a REED-NICASIL Cylinder.Works like a charme. :D
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Hello Helmut,
That reed cylinder,was it stock Sachs or something special that someone fabricated?If it was stock,what model of Sachs/Hercules would have used it? Thanks.
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Hello Helmut,
That reed cylinder,was it stock Sachs or something special that someone fabricated?If it was stock,what model of Sachs/Hercules would have used it? Thanks.
I understand that Sachs for its 250 MC -5 fabricated a few reed cylinders using Honda reeds,shortly before they closed the off road division.
This cylinder is a original Sachs cylinder,not changed over from a standard one.