Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: Maico International on July 11, 2010, 12:39:46 AM
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While newly manufactured products and confidentiality agreements are queuing up thick and fast at Maico International, the 2011 M.M.X. really is turning out to be a case of ??less is more? as just like all the fashion conscious ladies the M.M.X. just keeps shedding the pounds!.
When the 2010 model broke cover back in January this year it was a few weeks after the dust had settled before the news hit, that despite its rather old fashioned style frame, the 250 weighed in at one kilo lighter than this years ally adorned Yamaha Y.Z. 250 two stroke.
With some major advances already made in more areas than the manufacturers are prepared to divulge just yet!, the 2011 Maico is all set to shed up to another three kilos bringing the anticipated weight of the 250 to around the one hundred kilo mark with the new 500 following in its shadow at a shade over the magic ton and the mighty 700 expected to roll in at one hundred and three kilos.
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This is great news! I love hearing about advancements in two strokes! Great job you're doing Maico :)
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Wicked! Good goin Maico, i hope some people over here a adventurous enough to buy and race one ;D
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I really can't wait to see and ride one of these new beasts.How much will the new 380 weigh? :D
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This is great news Maico International!!!I have to say you guys have really taken an already GREAT motorcycle and made it so much better than it already was....! GREAT JOB! ;)
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Hey offroader I just wanted to tell ya that Maico no longer makes the 380cc bikes..... :)
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Hey offroader I just wanted to tell ya that Maico no longer makes the 380cc bikes..... :)
Hi Maicoman009,
Now here's a dilema for us...... do I let the cat out of the bag by being honest with people who may ultimatley buy our bikes? or do I skirt round the situation with some candid tongue in cheek answer...... or ignore the question totally like so many other manufacturers would do.?..... well this may be a bad call in P.R. terms but hey, the 380 is coming back! we have it under development/production at the moment and it should feature in the new line up :o
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are there any maico dealers in california? how can i get a ride on one????????
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Hey offroader I just wanted to tell ya that Maico no longer makes the 380cc bikes..... :)
Hi Maicoman009,
Now here's a dilema for us...... do I let the cat out of the bag by being honest with people who may ultimatley buy our bikes? or do I skirt round the situation with some candid tongue in cheek answer...... or ignore the question totally like so many other manufacturers would do.?..... well this may be a bad call in P.R. terms but hey, the 380 is coming back! we have it under development/production at the moment and it should feature in the new line up :o
380! Now that would be a hoot to ride! Are there Aussie dealers?
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Hey offroader I just wanted to tell ya that Maico no longer makes the 380cc bikes..... :)
Hi Maicoman009,
Now here's a dilema for us...... do I let the cat out of the bag by being honest with people who may ultimatley buy our bikes? or do I skirt round the situation with some candid tongue in cheek answer...... or ignore the question totally like so many other manufacturers would do.?..... well this may be a bad call in P.R. terms but hey, the 380 is coming back! we have it under development/production at the moment and it should feature in the new line up :o
380! Now that would be a hoot to ride! Are there Aussie dealers?
Hi Scotty dog,
In discussions with a Company at the moment.
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Hey offroader I just wanted to tell ya that Maico no longer makes the 380cc bikes..... :)
Hi Maicoman009,
Now here's a dilema for us...... do I let the cat out of the bag by being honest with people who may ultimatley buy our bikes? or do I skirt round the situation with some candid tongue in cheek answer...... or ignore the question totally like so many other manufacturers would do.?..... well this may be a bad call in P.R. terms but hey, the 380 is coming back! we have it under development/production at the moment and it should feature in the new line up :o
This is why i asked as i kinda remember you hinting about it a few months ago.That would be my size most likely! :P
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Don't take this the wrong way I'm pullin for you guys, but when are you going to actually release one of these things for and actual test? I mean you guys keep leaking photos and talking about how great this thing is, but I for one am more interested to see how it stacks up against the very fine tuned YZ, KTM'S or even any of the 450's for that matter. Even this latest claim about being a little lighter then then YZ, so what, I mean if the frame flexes and wallows all over the track what good is a light weight wonder bike?
They way I look at it is, talk is cheap, lets see how it compares to some proven supercross bikes...
Mike
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Don't take this the wrong way I'm pullin for you guys, but when are you going to actually release one of these things for and actual test? I mean you guys keep leaking photos and talking about how great this thing is, but I for one am more interested to see how it stacks up against the very fine tuned YZ, KTM'S or even any of the 450's for that matter. Even this latest claim about being a little lighter then then YZ, so what, I mean if the frame flexes and wallows all over the track what good is a light weight wonder bike?
They way I look at it is, talk is cheap, lets see how it compares to some proven supercross bikes...
Mike
Mike D first welcome to the site...
My guess is that you are here in the USA. Vince has been in talks with people that "claimed" they wanted to distribute the Maico brand here in the US but either were just tire kickers or wanted everything for free. Not really helpful.
Late last year I introduced Vince to a friend (Rich Winkler) who showed an interest in distributing the bikes.. but wanted to be able to see them in person before agreeing to do so. When on a business trip to the UK Rich had the opportunity to see the bikes and discuss terms with Maico International.
After coming to an agreement, all the wheel were put into motion to import the bikes to the USA. Until you have attempted to import something like a motorcycle brand on a regular basis, you have no idea of the complexities involved. Dealing with the EPA and DOT is a long arduous process.. try it sometime!
Once all the proper paperwork is in place, Rich will be able to import the bikes to the USA. Of course at this late date, it does not really make sense to import a 2010 model, so the first machines to be imported will be new models...
No offence, but people on the Internet "call people out" asking companies when they are going to do something when they think it should happen. I look at the list of your machines, it doesn't look as though you have purchased a new machine in a while... are you really planning or interested in buying a Maico? Or are you just excited like the rest of us to see them here in the states?
I know I'm very excited to see the new machines, can't wait to get the opportunity to ride one and provide a test on the Two Stroke Motocross web site. But I realize that just because I want to see the bikes here in the US that there are steps that must be taken... sometimes these things take way longer than you ever thought they could.
Hmmm... a 380?? I heard a rumor about those from someone a while ago... :o :o
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Don't take this the wrong way I'm pullin for you guys, but when are you going to actually release one of these things for and actual test? I mean you guys keep leaking photos and talking about how great this thing is, but I for one am more interested to see how it stacks up against the very fine tuned YZ, KTM'S or even any of the 450's for that matter. Even this latest claim about being a little lighter then then YZ, so what, I mean if the frame flexes and wallows all over the track what good is a light weight wonder bike?
They way I look at it is, talk is cheap, lets see how it compares to some proven supercross bikes...
Mike
Silly question but wht would you think the frame flexes and wallows all over the place?
Like John said it is not as easy as one would think to import something like a motorcycle.
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I think you guys are grilling Mike unfairly. First, he was asking about a test, not when they're going to go on sale. If they have Maicos running motocross in Europe, you'd think there would be someone willing to write a review of the thing if you asked around. It would at least be nice to know that attempts had been made, because that would really spread the word fast. And on the frame flexing thing, note the word IF. He's saying that, to us who have never seen the bike in person or watched it go around a track, we have no idea what its true potential is, besides what's been said by the company itself (and of course everyone says they're the best.) For all we know, the Maico could be a turkey, and we'd never know about it. I don't think that's the case, and I would venture to guess that Mike D doesn't either, but it's very easy to be skeptical of claims that aren't backed up by much.
Yes, that was me criticizing Maico, and yes, my fingers are bleeding. :P
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Yes, that was me criticizing Maico,
:-* It's about time ;D
Seriously,I don't blame Mike at all and don't think the question is the least bit out of line.As a matter of fact,I was thinking the same thing-talk is cheap.I can understand all the import issues etc but in the end that all means #ick to the consumer.
All they want is to see it imported,see it tested,try it and see a reasonable distribution network with good support.
It sounds cool to me and I hope it works out but the older you get the more jaded you get.I've been reading about the great Maico comeback for years and well remember all the hype with the Cannondale among other amazing new makes/models.
As for Mike,he's obviously a knowledgeable dude-he has a Zep avatar! (insert rockin' smiley here) :)
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John,
Long time lurker, short time poster;)
I just updated my bike list, and yes I live in the US, Oregon as a matter of fact. I sold two of my old bikes for a newer one about a year ago, but honestly, come on, bagging on what I ride shouldn't preclude what my opinions of what this new Maico is like or not. Jetz is right, I do think I asked a fair question that still hasn't been answered, when are we going to see this bike tested?
I know its almost blasphemous to criticize Maico here, but I keep hearing all these claims about how great this bike is but have yet to see anything to prove it. Let the bike speak for itself, is it that hard? I am simply anxious to see if it lives up to all the hype generated here. We've all seen claims by other manufacturers that this bike or that is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but few live up to the claim, anybody remember ATk, or Canondale?
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Sorry offroader,I missed the rumor/hint that the 380 was coming back.That's AWESOME to say the least...! Back in 2003 I was looking for a bike to buy and really wanted to find a Maico,"but ended up buying a used Suzuki RM-250 off of a co-worker/friend of mine".. :( but in my search to find a Maico I had gotten a phone # off a riding buddy for a shop in Erie PA. that had a bunch of late 90's early 00's Maico's still in the crates so I called the place & spoke to the owner & told him that I was interested in a 320 or 380 (at least at that time I was) and the man told me he only had 250's & 500's yet I still stupidly bought the RM off of the co-worker friend of mine..!Nonetheless I'm really glad to know that Maico International will offer the 380.That size 2-stroke would probably suit me a lot better than the 500cc beast yet It would be a tough decision to make.!?!Also I think at that time that the Maico's he was selling were the ones that were being built in the Netherlands or had been built in the Netherlands and I don't know how good the quality control was on the bikes @ that time?...Anyway I don't know if that shop or business in Erie PA still exist but for anyone on this site interested the place was or is called Nagares Enterprises & it's located @ 1616 Sasafras Ln. Erie PA. 16502 Telephone # 814-456-1292 :D
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Sorry offroader,I missed the rumor/hint that the 380 was coming back.That's AWESOME to say the least...! Back in 2003 I was looking for a bike to buy and really wanted to find a Maico,"but ended up buying a used Suzuki RM-250 off of a co-worker/friend of mine".. :( but in my search to find a Maico I had gotten a phone # off a riding buddy for a shop in Erie PA. that had a bunch of late 90's early 00's Maico's still in the crates so I called the place & spoke to the owner & told him that I was interested in a 320 or 380 (at least at that time I was) and the man told me he only had 250's & 500's yet I still stupidly bought the RM off of the co-worker friend of mine..!Nonetheless I'm really glad to know that Maico International will offer the 380.That size 2-stroke would probably suit me a lot better than the 500cc beast yet It would be a tough decision to make.!?!Also I think at that time that the Maico's he was selling were the ones that were being built in the Netherlands or had been built in the Netherlands and I don't know how good the quality control was on the bikes @ that time?...Anyway I don't know if that shop or business in Erie PA still exist but for anyone on this site interested the place was or is called Nagares Enterprises & it's located @ 1616 Sasafras Ln. Erie PA. 16502 Telephone # 814-456-1292 :D
No worries.You should have bought the 500. :D
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:-[ Your absolutely right offroader & I have to say that I'm growing really impatient waiting on Maico Int. to get the new Maicos here in the U.S...I know it's NOT as easy as most of us think to ship them here so NO DISRESPECT to Maico International I'm just wanting to get a new ride and I would rather get a new Maico than a new KTM.I will sell my "08" 300xc in a heartbeat to put the money towards a 2011 Maico 500mmx....!!! :P
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Or the new 380.A wise man once told me that good things come to those who wait.
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On a different note, I decided a few days ago to be the unofficial embassador for Maico on another MX-related forum I've been known to visit, and so I posted these last two bits of news over there. The result has been fairly comical, here's some excerpts.
yzmxer608: 700 two stroke?
JETZcorp: Yes, with 82 horsepower according to the Maico website.
Voutare: Fuck that. 700cc's? That's ridiculous. I wouldn't even want to try kicking that beast over.
Wilmx829: a 700cc two stroke? You would need a diaper to ride that.
yzmxer608: That's just plain insane, better have some smooth power delivery.
JETZcorp: It wouldn't be hard to kick over at all. I'm sure it comes with a compression release, just like every other big-bore Maico since the early '70s. [...] Even the old 760 they said fired like a 250 once it was warmed up.
yzmxer608: Jesus, they had a 760 too?
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John,
Long time lurker, short time poster;)
I just updated my bike list, and yes I live in the US, Oregon as a matter of fact. I sold two of my old bikes for a newer one about a year ago, but honestly, come on, bagging on what I ride shouldn't preclude what my opinions of what this new Maico is like or not. Jetz is right, I do think I asked a fair question that still hasn't been answered, when are we going to see this bike tested?
I know its almost blasphemous to criticize Maico here, but I keep hearing all these claims about how great this bike is but have yet to see anything to prove it. Let the bike speak for itself, is it that hard? I am simply anxious to see if it lives up to all the hype generated here. We've all seen claims by other manufacturers that this bike or that is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but few live up to the claim, anybody remember ATk, or Canondale?
I fully agree!!!
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On a different note, I decided a few days ago to be the unofficial embassador for Maico on another MX-related forum I've been known to visit, and so I posted these last two bits of news over there. The result has been fairly comical, here's some excerpts.
yzmxer608: 700 two stroke?
JETZcorp: Yes, with 82 horsepower according to the Maico website.
Voutare: Fuck that. 700cc's? That's ridiculous. I wouldn't even want to try kicking that beast over.
Wilmx829: a 700cc two stroke? You would need a diaper to ride that.
yzmxer608: That's just plain insane, better have some smooth power delivery.
JETZcorp: It wouldn't be hard to kick over at all. I'm sure it comes with a compression release, just like every other big-bore Maico since the early '70s. [...] Even the old 760 they said fired like a 250 once it was warmed up.
yzmxer608: Jesus, they had a 760 too?
Haha honestly, I was just waiting for you to bring it up over there!
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John,
Long time lurker, short time poster;)
I just updated my bike list, and yes I live in the US, Oregon as a matter of fact. I sold two of my old bikes for a newer one about a year ago, but honestly, come on, bagging on what I ride shouldn't preclude what my opinions of what this new Maico is like or not. Jetz is right, I do think I asked a fair question that still hasn't been answered, when are we going to see this bike tested?
I know its almost blasphemous to criticize Maico here, but I keep hearing all these claims about how great this bike is but have yet to see anything to prove it. Let the bike speak for itself, is it that hard? I am simply anxious to see if it lives up to all the hype generated here. We've all seen claims by other manufacturers that this bike or that is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but few live up to the claim, anybody remember ATk, or Canondale?
Really I'm glad that you have decided to become a participant rather than a lurker!!
And even better yet I like that you don't agree with some things I said. You responded intelligently and without attacking, which I greatly appreciate.
To clarify a bit, I am not saying that you no one can criticize Maico... just want to make sure that folks have all the facts.
As for bike tests in magazines, that is worthy of an article all by itself! LOL
Some of you know that I am working with the North American distributor for TM Raicng. We have been talking about many of the things that would help get these bikes out into the public eye, of course one of them being bike tests...
Dan at Barker Bros has been the distributor of TM for over 10 years in Canada before taking on the US distribution earlier this year. Over the past ten years he has loaned bikes for magazine tests and been disappointed every single time.
For the most part the test riders love them.... but the tests themselves seem to reflect something a bit different.
This is one of the reasons that a few months back I was asking about ideas for unbiased bike tests. It's difficult when your magazine depends on ad revenue to write a bad review of one of their products.
Just more information.....
I hope I didn't come across as grilling you... just trying to point out all this other stuff!
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Dealerships might be a tuff nut to crack, I would'nt put it past the big four to threaten to pull thier line 'if you bring in that 2-stroke line up'. I want to know what these mechanical marvels are going to cost. What will the 250 cost? I am saving up for a new ride and am really leaning twoards a Service Honda f conversion.
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I have been following the maico`s whit interest of getting a maico one day.
Also trying to find out whats needed to do a 500 to a 250 or the other way around.
and what is the the price for a new 2011 mmx?
I have owned and ridden various tm models
80,85,125`s and a 250
and for some reason the reviews that magazines do doesn`t really do the bikes justice
and they often dont include them in shootouts either.
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The problem with a premature marketing campaign is exactly whats happened here. ::)
Everone knows now of the problems Maico are having with the import process.
It's easy to understand people starting to get impatient with the bike.
How would a 5 year old react if shown a box a candy and then told he can't have them until next week.
I had the same problem acouple of years ago when Evinrude "released" the new 130hp etec.
They had heaps of marketing and i had people put deposits down to purchase one.
Well 2 years latter and deposits returned we recieved the first shipment. >:D
Its hard to get customers back once you have pissed them of.
I hope Maico do well but maybe they need to cut back abit on the "taste testers " or "leaks" until they know when the permits will be ready.
PS. Get someone in the UK to do a test or put a vid on utube from one of your test days.
People want to see one running.
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The problem is, they're not marketing a bike that's not for sale. They're just marketing a bike that's not for sale where you live, or where I live. But, while they're trying to wade through all the bureaucracy of importing a bike (which wouldn't exist if I were in charge, just saying) they also have to sell bikes in Britain and Germany and such. It would be silly of them to just shut everything down until they have a complete distribution network on a global scale, but that's the problem when you have a global media like the internet. That said, it is still discomforting that even a buyer that's within the umbrella of the Maico distribution network doesn't really have access to any information about how the bike goes, other than what's published by the company itself. I imagine someone has already thought of this idea before, hence the test days thing I've heard about.
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What would be cool is to be able to customize the transmission to your own gear ratios.
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Oh yeah, I know they have all sorts of gears (because you bought 'em all!) and the thing's similar enough to an '83 in terms of space inside to work with, I can't see a problem with it. If these things truly are hand built in limited quantities, it seems like ordering your own transmission ratios would be as simple as ordering your burger without onions. Just print that on a sticky-note for "der transmissionmeister" and you're good to go!
That's a good idea, because then you could have Maicos suited to fit everything from single-track trails and arenacross tracks, all the way up through Sand Spider desert land. I can see that being especially useful for the enduro models, because I for one would want my 700 enduro to be able to comfortably cruise the highway like a boss, but then actually use the bike on the dirt, which is something my dad's 360 Husky enduro has never been able to pull off.
What say, Maico? This couldn't possibly be as difficult as updating a 2010 bike into a 2011 as we've heard earlier (which would mean a new retrofit frame!)
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Yes, that was me criticizing Maico,
:-* It's about time ;D
Seriously,I don't blame Mike at all and don't think the question is the least bit out of line.As a matter of fact,I was thinking the same thing-talk is cheap.I can understand all the import issues etc but in the end that all means #ick to the consumer.
All they want is to see it imported,see it tested,try it and see a reasonable distribution network with good support.
It sounds cool to me and I hope it works out but the older you get the more jaded you get.I've been reading about the great Maico comeback for years and well remember all the hype with the Cannondale among other amazing new makes/models.
As for Mike,he's obviously a knowledgeable dude-he has a Zep avatar! (insert rockin' smiley here) :)
+1 .
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The current ratios are higher than the Sand Spider, and I ordered the lowest current ratio, the primary ratio is also higher than the 83 (65/33 vs. 66/31), and the lowest gear ratio (I just ordered from Koestler) is 2.28 vs. the sand spider which is 2.36 (and is still high). The default ratios on the 700's are like 1.96 or 1.86. So they are quite fast.
The gear ratios being custom made depends on how they get their supplies made, they make limited bikes but they would still order the gears in bulk, so depends on how expensive it would be if they did it for a single person. Secondly, it also depends on what they are marketing these bikes for, I mean mostly they would have the gear ratios right for anyone doing motocross. It's just for trail riding I would like different ratios (and this is just me, who knows how others would ride and for those doing enduro their gear ratios are probably right for them already, they don't really offer a "trail" bike per se aside from Enduro.)
My KTM 495 is almost ideal for the gearing. Essentially I would want a Low first gear, like Trials low, walking speed off idle at the power. Second gear would be same to slightly lower than normal first but still have some speed. Third would be 2nd, 4th would be normal 3rd gear, then 5th (or even a 6th) could be an override for example.
It's hard though to just say I want x ratio because need to ride the bike, understand how it behaves at varoius RPM to see where the ratios should be under the considtions I want (and have to see how the gears flow between each other since want a smooth transition and not large jumps that loose power). This is why just allowing anyone to have custom gear box is impractical. I mean even for me I know what I want but I still would need to experiment to get it perfect, hard to must map it out on paper. I mean my KTM 495 ratios may not work because the power spread is differnt so I can't really use it as a complete model even.
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Anyway I don't know if that shop or business in Erie PA still exist but for anyone on this site interested the place was or is called Nagares Enterprises & it's located @ 1616 Sasafras Ln. Erie PA. 16502 Telephone # 814-456-1292
There was a guy in Erie PA selling in the crate 1998, 2000, 2004 Maico 500/250's end of last summer. I talked to the guy, he said he was a dealer at one time. Perhaps he is the same guy.
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Probably so opferman,as I was interested in a 380 or a 320 @ the time the man was really adament that a 320 is just a 250 with a larger head & the 380 was essentially a 500 with a slightly smaller head.I just know that I probably made the biggest mistake in my life by NOT buying one of his crated 500 Maicos.... :-[
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How in the hell does the size of the head change displacement? Isn't that all up to the piston's bore x stroke?
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How in the hell does the size of the head change displacement? Isn't that all up to the piston's bore x stroke?
Yes
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The 380 is based on the 250 cases.I am curious,any idea what the guy in PA wants for a 250? It is easy to convert the 250 into a 320 (a very nice motor).
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The 380 is based on the 250 cases.I am curious,any idea what the guy in PA wants for a 250? It is easy to convert the 250 into a 320 (a very nice motor).
All that I can tell ya SachsGS is back in 2003 the price I was given for a 2001 Maico 500 was $7800.00 in the crate. I know, I know, what was I thinking when I bought my buddies RM-250 ??? Well all I can say is it had alot to do with the wife... :-[
I don't know if the man still has any or if he's still even in business but I put his address & last known phone # on a previous post... :)
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Last year he wanted like $4k for unused ones out of crate and like $6k for ones in crate.
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Are those Maico's MX or Enduro (wide ratio)? ::)
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They sound good, but I would like to see some pictures and videos of them and some real tests. I would like it tremendously if the came out with a 144. As cool as these bikes are, there are not any sanctioning bodies that will let these bikes compete.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the last time Maico made something smaller than 250cc, it looked like this.
(http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/1979_maico_magnum_125.jpg)
Very cool with the rotary valve and everything, but I'm thinking it would be a bigger project than the others, because you can't make a 125/144 out the basic 250 or 500 mold. Besides, I think I remember reading an FAQ where they said they were focusing on 250+ size bikes because the kind of people who would be likely to go for a Maico in the first place, at least at this point, are the older, 250+ type of riders.
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The Maico MC125 was last produced in 1979 and shared it's basic engine architecture with a 125 road racer and a 250 street bike. The transmission was of a somewhat primitive sliding key design similar to Sachs,Zundapp and Hodaka bikes of that era.In the late 70's the Japanese had,in the 125 class,a technology and cost advantage that was virtually insurmountable.
The Maico 125's had a reputation of being fast, fragile with spectacular handling characteristics.
I've got an unrestored 1977 Maico 125 in my collection and virtually nothing is shared with the bigger Maico's - frame,hubs etc. are all special to that model.
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Yeah, that's about what I'd heard. We thought about getting one back when I needed to move up from the Yamaha GT80, but realized that they were ridiculously rare, too fragile, and too difficult to find parts for in all likelihood. Then, out of nowhere we happen to stumble upon the 120 and it's been love ever since.
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Last year he wanted like $4k for unused ones out of crate and like $6k for ones in crate.
Now that I recall Opferman the price that the man quoted me in 2003 was actually $6800.00 for a 500 enduro model still crated. It would be great if he still has any of the bikes left!
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This was last year, he may have even wanted around $5k's, I can't remember. He was selling them on Craigs List and he told me he was having a hard time selling them because of the economy. He was very motiviated to sell those bikes from what I remember, said he had a lot of parts but I was looking for a transmission at the time and he didn't have what I needed.
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There is a 380 Maico for sale on Ebay. :D