Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: Maico International on May 06, 2010, 12:43:18 PM
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I know that this is a little off the usual territory but without mentioning the "M" word I wonder if any of you guys on here remember the Cotton E.M.X. I started racing in 1978 and in 1979 moved onto a brand new Cotton E.M.X. 250.They were made in the U.K.and the company was owned by a well respected frame designer Mike Eatough who use to work for another famous British Company C.C.M. (recently reformed)
The bikes were all hand made and were fitted with a rotax air cooled two stroke motor which I have to say is the only other powerplant I have ever used that was comparable in its power and delivery to that of the "M" with the 250 pumping out 42hp in 79 and at the time I was 15 and drove for five hours to the factory to pick which one I wanted I was like a kid in a sweet shop back then, but it was a superb bike.They continued into 1980 when they changed colour to white with orange frame and orange engine and they produced a 125 250 and 400.Sadly they went bust after a rather expensive attempt at road racing, and now as far as I know Rotax don't really produce a two stroke motor for M.X. any more.
Did they ever make it to the U.S.A.? or does anyone ever remember them? surely this is one for Opferman?
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I don't recall ever hearing of them in Canada.
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At a garage sale I found a copy of an old Brad Lackey "How to Ride" guide that has two pictures of a Cotton 250 EMX. However these are photographs of the Sachs powered model that preceded the Rotax versions, if I can find the book in all my stuff I'll scan and post some pictures. These Sachs models used first the 2501/7A and then the 2501/5A engines (see pictures of Helmet Classen's Sachs). It is interesting to note that Bombardier Corp. purchased the engine works Sachs Austria from Fichtel and Sachs, Schweinfurt, Germany in 1969 (if my memory is correct) and renamed it Rotax. It is my understanding that the disc valve engines had already been designed at that point, evidence of this is that these engines display design featurers similar to the Sachs 1251/5/6 series engines such as concentric kickstart/shift levers, crankcase cooling fins etc..
We can also thank Cotton for pioneering the aluminum "beam" chassis first developed for their Rotax longitudinal twin road racers.
And lastly, rumour has it that a farmer south of me (thats all I'll say) purchased a CCM 500MX new in 1979 and that he might still have the bike. We are on the hunt for that one.
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Off-Road Action (U.K. magazine), winter 1993 - volume 1 - number 3, page 8: "EMC into the future in 1977" an article about EMCs. I'll scan the article when I have a chance. It's funny, I can remember this article but I can't remember my *@$% tel. # when I rent a video!
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here's a video of the Cotton E.M.X. with the Rotax
Cotton Emx Motorcross footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbZiiGGTi4#)
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Sort of an awkward-looking machine in the way it's colored, but I have good faith in Rotax engines. I have to say, I've never heard of these things before.
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Here's a Cotton for sale in NZ at the moment.
1966 with Villiers 32a engine.
$3500
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab207/tmkiwi/72788235.jpg)
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A few of these have Sacshs engines.
(http://www.mxbikes.com/pics/vbike/nx8p2tz43s.jpg)
(http://www.mxbikes.com/pics/vbike/IMGP0048.JPG)
(http://www.mxbikes.com/pics/vbike/cotton%20400%20emx.jpg)
(http://www.mxbikes.com/pics/vbike/cotton.jpg)
Frank Willoughby Cotton founded Cotton Motorcycles in 1918 and invented the triangulated frame. Using straight pipes to strenghten frames and lower the center of gravity so they would not break or bend as easy and make the bikes lighter.
Patent number: 1169381
Filing date: Jul 6, 1915
Issue date: Jan 25, 1916
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=A7hkAAAAEBAJ (http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=A7hkAAAAEBAJ)
Cotton made their own frames but bought the rest of the parts, in the 70s they lost Villers, their engine supplier, so we have Sachs and even the 2 stroke Rotex 250. The factory closed in 1980 though because of losing their engine supplier and as with all the small European outfits and many other small manufacturers, the large scale Japenese productions.
There apparently were some replicas made in the 1990s. I've never seen one in person though and haven't heard of them before, there are a lot of manufacturers which have come and gone though.
That's just a summary of this page:
http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/cotton-motorcycle-history.php (http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/cotton-motorcycle-history.php)
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I know that this is a little off the usual territory but without mentioning the "M" word I wonder if any of you guys on here remember the Cotton E.M.X. I started racing in 1978 and in 1979 moved onto a brand new Cotton E.M.X. 250.They were made in the U.K.and the company was owned by a well respected frame designer Mike Eatough who use to work for another famous British Company C.C.M. (recently reformed)
The bikes were all hand made and were fitted with a rotax air cooled two stroke motor which I have to say is the only other powerplant I have ever used that was comparable in its power and delivery to that of the "M" with the 250 pumping out 42hp in 79 and at the time I was 15 and drove for five hours to the factory to pick which one I wanted I was like a kid in a sweet shop back then, but it was a superb bike.They continued into 1980 when they changed colour to white with orange frame and orange engine and they produced a 125 250 and 400.Sadly they went bust after a rather expensive attempt at road racing, and now as far as I know Rotax don't really produce a two stroke motor for M.X. any more.
Did they ever make it to the U.S.A.? or does anyone ever remember them? surely this is one for Opferman?
Too Funny!! Of course you can mention Maico.... ;D ;D ;D
But some of the folks on here seem to think that if you have any problem in life, the Maico is the answer. Have a headache? Better get Maico. Have heartburn? Better get Maico... Can't open that can of beans? Better get Maico....
I love these bikes.... but we don't want to add warnings like the drug companies on television. Yes new miracle drug "B" will stop athlete's foot, but it has been know to cause herpes, you may have dizziness, vomiting, vertigo, erectile dysfunction, heart attack or it may kill you... please consult a doctor before taking miracle drug "B".
As for the Cotton... I have heard of them but very little...
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As society embraces more and more non pharmaceutical remedies to life's ailments - a little sprinkle of a Maico 1977 MC250 combined with a few days evo moto R & R might just be what the doctor ordered!
Getting back to the topic of rare gems of the past, here's one that I am curious about: back in the early 80s a british company produced a 500 MX that looked like a fusion of Yamaha and Maico DNA. I believe the bike was called a "Wilco", does anybody know anything about this beast?
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Hi SachGS - I just got an e-mail from England containing the following two photos...
(http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af58/Two_Stroke_Motocross/Wilcomoto490cc.jpg)
Is this the bike you were asking about? It a Wilcomoto 490cc from around 1978/ 79
(http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af58/Two_Stroke_Motocross/meagain.jpg)
The machine above is a 1979 Cotton Emx 250, the young man on the machine is non other than Vince from Maico International!
Cool Stuff!!
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As society embraces more and more non pharmaceutical remedies to life's ailments - a little sprinkle of a Maico 1977 MC250 combined with a few days evo moto R & R might just be what the doctor ordered!
Lol,what doesn't kill you just makes you stronger :)
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Extra, Extra, Read All About It! Scientists have discovered that riding a Maico cures Blue Balls!
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John Nicholas,I feel that I must speak up about your comments about several people on this site maybe talking up the "M" Brand a little to much!Now with all due respect to you John I know your the administrater of this awesome two stroke MX site and I certainetly DO NOT want to get banned from the TSM site,however I have'nt personally read anything on the site that states that the Maico's are some sort of miracle bike or that they can cure any diseases or anything remotely similiar.I have however read as well as blogged a fair amount about the "M" brand myself only because I'm a previous owner of one and also because I'm very interested in the new 2011 M's as I'm sure several others are on the site.I do remember an old television commercial that advertised "Uh Oh,Better get Macco!"which was and I think still is a automobile body & paint shop.It sounds to me,at least in your recent post that you may be getting the two "M" brands mixed up or something because I know that you are also somewhat of a "M"(dirtbike) fan yourself.I presently own & ride a 2008 KTM-300xc and love that bike but there are alot of other brands that I like and have owned both Japanese & European and I persoally prefer the Euro brands as opposed to the Jap brands although I love and will ride any brand and have a blast doing so!I would also like to say that a couple years back I was at work & on my lunch break and my legs were killing me and just aching like they were just beat with a baseball bat!One of my co-workers & friends had his Suzuki 4-wheeler on his truck so I had him unload it & I took it for a quick ride & low & behold my leg pain went away!! Trust me it was'nt the aspirin I took 3 hours prior either it was the adrenelin rush I got from taking a ride on his 400 Quad sport 4-choke!So I do believe dirtbikes can & do help with pain sometimes! PS Please don't ban me from your site! THANKS,John :)
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In all seriousness, riding is a very good thing, physically. So long as you don't crash and get all FUBAR, a good four-hour ride provides the sort of exercise that many of us just can't seem to get in our everyday lives, whether it's due to time, apathy, or whatever. I always come back from a weekend of riding and hauling half a ton of wood to a campfire, feeling stronger and more refreshed. My dad, who is of course much older and consequently has more ailments to consider, has noticed great improvements in flexibility, breathing, knee movement, back pain, etc. The most strenuous (and entertaining) bit of exercise I have ever had occurred when I was on the 120. Here's what I wrote about it when I got home (I keep a log of all my rides, because they're fun to read.)
He gestured me to go ahead, and I went down the hill, cautiously across the two bisecting roads, then went for it. Even though we had raised the springs on the 120 a bit, there was no way to keep it from bottoming out through the whoops, but I didnā??t care. What I did care about was the state of my legs, which were doing all the work the shocks were too small to, and as a result, they were aching in minutes. My arms, back, chest, and stomach soon joined the legs in pain, and I was forced to slow down for the last minute or so. When I arrived at the ODOT station, I killed the bike, tore off all my gear as fast as possible (it was hot as hell) and cracked a Root Beer to look casual, but found myself with an explosion to deal with.
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I think what John was saying is there have been some silly claims made in past post's.
Some people have felt the need to then defend their favorite brand "Maico" when all that was really said was ,to calm down and except NO 20 year old bike has the ability of more modern machinery.
I for one have had comments misconstrued or missunderstood.
I love that somepeople have a real passion for something. The only thing is when you have that great passion sometimes you can be very blinkered in your veiws.
I have a 84' yamaha at take it out for rides occationally. But i prefer to look at it mostly.
It just doesn't have the thrill of my TM.
I love all bikes and love the style of the 80's machines i could not afford when i was growing up.
I know some of us have taken the piss a few times but please take it on the chin.
Some comments have made it hard to not have a laugh.
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I know some of us have taken the piss a few times but please take it on the chin.
My foreigner sense is tingling.
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Thats the bike, a Wilcomoto! Does anyone know the story behind these bikes?
On the subject of Cottons I spoke to a freind in England recently and, if my memory is correct, he is racing a Cotton with a "Starmaker" engine in the pre 65 class at vintage meets in Europe.
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John Nicholas,I feel that I must speak up about your comments about several people on this site maybe talking up the "M" Brand a little to much!Now with all due respect to you John I know your the administrater of this awesome two stroke MX site and I certainetly DO NOT want to get banned from the TSM site,however I have'nt personally read anything on the site that states that the Maico's are some sort of miracle bike or that they can cure any diseases or anything remotely similiar.I have however read as well as blogged a fair amount about the "M" brand myself only because I'm a previous owner of one and also because I'm very interested in the new 2011 M's as I'm sure several others are on the site.I do remember an old television commercial that advertised "Uh Oh,Better get Macco!"which was and I think still is a automobile body & paint shop.It sounds to me,at least in your recent post that you may be getting the two "M" brands mixed up or something because I know that you are also somewhat of a "M"(dirtbike) fan yourself.I presently own & ride a 2008 KTM-300xc and love that bike but there are alot of other brands that I like and have owned both Japanese & European and I persoally prefer the Euro brands as opposed to the Jap brands although I love and will ride any brand and have a blast doing so!I would also like to say that a couple years back I was at work & on my lunch break and my legs were killing me and just aching like they were just beat with a baseball bat!One of my co-workers & friends had his Suzuki 4-wheeler on his truck so I had him unload it & I took it for a quick ride & low & behold my leg pain went away!! Trust me it was'nt the aspirin I took 3 hours prior either it was the adrenelin rush I got from taking a ride on his 400 Quad sport 4-choke!So I do believe dirtbikes can & do help with pain sometimes! PS Please don't ban me from your site! THANKS,John :)
Um,ok then,glad to get that straightened out. :-\ Fwiw,I like black rum too.
Seriously man,it's just all in good fun.Anybody that rides anything is good with me-but don't tell jetzcorp :-X ;)
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My sons (and myself) are really into the mountain bike scene and if you have ever read some of the forums on Pinkbike it makes this site seem very refined. The odd time I look at Pinkbike and read about accusations of undeclared gender reassignment and cruelty to animals (specifically gerbils) I run for cover!
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I think its good we can all be civil.
As for gerbils, i think they have always been unfairly treated.
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To hell with the Gerbils, I have a cat! Always preferred squirrels anyway, being from the Pacific NW. I do believe there are more squirrels living in Portland than there are birds. There's a family of 'em in every tree, and there's about one tree per person 'round these parts. And yes, this does relate to the topic at hand because... their tails are like cotton! Brown... scraggly... cotton. Whatever.
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This is very interesting, I am beginning to think that the "M" is the disease not the cure,if their are any doctors reading please feel free to comment. ;D
A few days ago a regular member on this forum complained that all the threads on the forum always end up as a Maico thread. ???So I start a thread about a British made bike (Cotton E.M.X.) with a genuine interest in the bike as you can clearly see I use to race one, with the only relevance to the "M" being that both brands were being manufactured at the same time.And here we are on the second page and its become an "M" thread along with a poll for your favourite pets ;D ;D with no help from me what-so-ever.I think I may change my name to "Doctor M" as apparently their is no cure! and I am clearly not the cause of the problem, maybe just the symptom :D
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If one were to classify addictions motorcycles would probaly be right up there in difficulty to treat and the "M" bike disorder particularly destructive. So the solution is to go "cold turkey", yep, not mention the bikes that seems to invade every thread. How about 3 days - not a "peep"?
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John Nicholas,I feel that I must speak up about your comments about several people on this site maybe talking up the "M" Brand a little to much!Now with all due respect to you John I know your the administrater of this awesome two stroke MX site and I certainetly DO NOT want to get banned from the TSM site,however I have'nt personally read anything on the site that states that the Maico's are some sort of miracle bike or that they can cure any diseases or anything remotely similiar.I have however read as well as blogged a fair amount about the "M" brand myself only because I'm a previous owner of one and also because I'm very interested in the new 2011 M's as I'm sure several others are on the site.I do remember an old television commercial that advertised "Uh Oh,Better get Macco!"which was and I think still is a automobile body & paint shop.It sounds to me,at least in your recent post that you may be getting the two "M" brands mixed up or something because I know that you are also somewhat of a "M"(dirtbike) fan yourself.I presently own & ride a 2008 KTM-300xc and love that bike but there are alot of other brands that I like and have owned both Japanese & European and I persoally prefer the Euro brands as opposed to the Jap brands although I love and will ride any brand and have a blast doing so!I would also like to say that a couple years back I was at work & on my lunch break and my legs were killing me and just aching like they were just beat with a baseball bat!One of my co-workers & friends had his Suzuki 4-wheeler on his truck so I had him unload it & I took it for a quick ride & low & behold my leg pain went away!! Trust me it was'nt the aspirin I took 3 hours prior either it was the adrenelin rush I got from taking a ride on his 400 Quad sport 4-choke!So I do believe dirtbikes can & do help with pain sometimes! PS Please don't ban me from your site! THANKS,John :)
First of all... I will not ban anyone on this site for mentioning Maico.... certainly Maicoman009 done nothing to deserve such a fate. No worries... You can also speak your mind. There will be no banning for asking questions either...
Reading this thread I laughed out loud quite a few times... my earlier post had been an attempt at humor, sometimes it works via the written word and sometimes it doesn't.
Yes I remember the Auto paint commercials here in the states... that was in my mind while writing it...
I agree that ridding dirt bike can be a wonderful cure for many things that ail us in life! Whatever floats your boat and makes you happy... as long as it doesn't injure, maim or kill anyone else is cool with me... if that includes gerbils or squirrels... so be it!
Let's recap....
I love Maico motorcycles....
I love vintage motorcycles....
I love modern motorcycles...
I love motocross..
But......
Not every thread on here needs to turn into a Maico thread, or a vintage thread, or a thread about gerbils!!!
Honestly.... I have a pretty good sense of humor... maybe it doesn't come across well on the board all the time, but in person you would know that I was joking. And I also recognize that a few others on here have a wonderful sense of irony mixed with humor. That makes this forum special...
I'm really enjoying the conversations posted here! Thank you for being respectful of each other.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program....
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Thats the bike, a Wilcomoto! Does anyone know the story behind these bikes?
On the subject of Cottons I spoke to a freind in England recently and, if my memory is correct, he is racing a Cotton with a "Starmaker" engine in the pre 65 class at vintage meets in Europe.
Hi Sachs,
The twinshock scene as it is reffered to over here is thriving, we have been to a couple in the last 18 months to watch and I may well be racing in a couple myself later this year with a 79 400 "M".I will see if I can find out any more about the wilcomoto.
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Hey, if you go out on your non-Japanese red machine, be sure to get some video. There seems to be a lack of good racing footage.
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Hey, if you go out on your non-Japanese red machine, be sure to get some video. There seems to be a lack of good racing footage.
Hi Jetzcorp we have already got some promo footage on our "red and white non japanese machine" and are half way through putting the video together sadly time is not on our side at the moment but as soon as its done it will be posted.
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I gave a 79MC chassis (didn't say the "it" word) to a freind a half dozen years ago to build and I think he is still racing the bike. Here's a picture of Rick on a 73 MC440: www.motocentre.biz (http://www.motocentre.biz).
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That's a cool site Sachs, real nice "bikes n babes" section