Post by: cr125 rider on January 29, 2013, 01:51:49 AM
I was on youtube actually looking at some two stroke 250s for sale and seen a video to my right under suggested videos that read something like"what bike sounds better 2 stroke or 4 stroke" and decided i would take a look.The way you voted was to like for 2 stroke or dislike for 4 strokes so of course i clicked like
.While i was there a started reading one of the many typical arguments that are common for a video like that.I decided to comment about the cost of repair and power of the two and kinda of bashed the 4 stroke riders about how skill less riders are now a days on a pro level compared to riders back before the 4 strokes came along.Of course as i checked my email i got a reply to my comment as expected.As i opened the email to see the reply i was expecting the typical troll trying to draw me into a pointless argument but to my surprise the comment i seen made me question the intelligence of any and all 4 stroke rider!
Heres what it said:
cody begnoche has replied to your comment on What sounds best 2 stroke or 4 stroke motocross bikes
?To reply back click here. To see all comments on this video click here.
if there skills are less how come you don't see Ricky Carmichael, Ryan Villapoto, or James Stewart riding two stoke pro
Now i will be the first to admit that i have limited knowledge of super and motorcross as i was into to stadium cross when i was younger and that was back in the late 80s and 90s when Mcgrath was huge.I have watched very little of any of the 3 since 4 strokes replaced the two strokes.But even I know that stewart and ricky both ran 2 strokes.I also know that stewart was the last pro racer to run one!I of course replied back with a smiley face followed by"Thank you for making my point"
Post by: msambuco on January 29, 2013, 02:24:51 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on January 29, 2013, 02:36:24 AM
Now to be fair, you also get the same group of kids who have 85's and other 2t's that think they can hit mach1 on a clapped out bike and end up being argument stirrers themselves just as guilty as any stuck up rider anywhere else.
I don't even bother commenting on any youtube videos anymore because there are so many trolls, goons, and sh*t stirrers that will argue just for the sake of arguing.
Post by: citabjockey on January 29, 2013, 06:36:29 AM
- The boss pays the bills and puts them on the bike they want to sell
- The 4stroke has a 80% displacement advantage because of silly rules. A 2502T, without at least equivalent effort in development is not competitive with that handicap on today's tracks.
Quoteif there skills are less how come you don't see Ricky Carmichael, Ryan Villapoto, or James Stewart riding two stoke pro
Post by: TMKIWI on January 29, 2013, 06:52:47 AM
Post by: shanes on January 29, 2013, 07:04:14 AM
I just think the world is getting dumber in general.
i think your right the dumbing down of society over the last few years is just plain scary .
Post by: cr125 rider on January 29, 2013, 09:12:11 AM
I just think the world is getting dumber in general.
I think people are lazier and more content with life more then dumb.Every generation since the 40 and up after ww2 really seem to lack ambition.Oddly enough(and sadly) wars seem to drive people to achieve more.
Post by: Jeram on January 29, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Post by: msmola2002 on January 29, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
Quote
Is there a link between the bike you choose to ride and intelect?
You spelled intellect incorrectly.
hth.
Post by: _X_ on January 29, 2013, 09:15:00 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on January 29, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
I hate generalizing groups of people, but a MAJORITY of ignorant/stupid comments on youtube regarding 4t's being way better and stuff are from 12 year old's with 250f and 150's who think they are hot sh*t and have the fastest bike ever. Never swung a leg over a 2t, and make assumptions and arguments they don't know any better of. But hey, welcome to the internet
Now to be fair, you also get the same group of kids who have 85's and other 2t's that think they can hit mach1 on a clapped out bike and end up being argument stirrers themselves just as guilty as any stuck up rider anywhere else.
I don't even bother commenting on any youtube videos anymore because there are so many trolls, goons, and sh*t stirrers that will argue just for the sake of arguing.
This. I call the phenomena, dumbasskids. Pronunciation: dumb-ass-kids Sample sentence: A dumbasskid once again trolled youtube because they have too much bandwidth and like bashing other peoples bikes to make their likely clapped out POS four joke look and feel superior.
Seriously though, they are just kids. The amount of times I have argued against myself as to which is better is uncountable. There is no possible way to intelligently argue that a four stroke motocross bike is a better machine for the purpose of the sport. None.
Post by: cr125 rider on January 30, 2013, 01:56:09 AM
QuoteIs there a link between the bike you choose to ride and intelect?
You spelled intellect incorrectly.
hth.
Yes i did
Post by: motoman356 on January 30, 2013, 04:44:03 AM
yes manufacturers push product but sometimes there is just a clear advantage. in 2003 RC lost a few motos but at Washougal and Unadilla RC did everything he could to beat windham but he felt at this point the bike was holding him back. next year RC went 24-24 this time WITH all the big guys in there. and if for two crashes in 2005 at southwick and unadilla( stewie landing on him) he wouldve gone 24-24 again. as it was he still won all the overalls.
stewart came into 2005 thinking he wouldnt be at a disadvantage and it showed. 1st case high point. he battled both motos only to finish 2-2. 2nd unadilla RC goes down and stewart opens a 12 sec lead. `12 laps in RC passes him for what would possibly been the win( they were on the last lap only half way around so who knows.) 3rd binghampton JS259 holeshots only to be passed right before he crashes out.
enter 2006. JS7 on a 450. he still struggles to beat RC but is obviously on the same playing field and wins were ultimately decided by mechanical and mishaps
Post by: Stusmoke on January 30, 2013, 05:07:43 AM
Post by: motoman356 on January 30, 2013, 06:55:21 AM
look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/
Post by: TMKIWI on January 30, 2013, 07:00:53 AM
Post by: shanes on January 30, 2013, 07:25:22 AM
Well put motoman.
+1
Post by: Stusmoke on January 30, 2013, 08:33:45 AM
stusmoke. your definately right they are easier to ride. however there have been numerous test indicating that riding a 4t vs 2t allows a rider to make less mistakes albiet not a faste lap--reference transworldmx.com 250 vs 250f a few years back. and riding a 250f or 450 you still have to ride the top of the power. have you ever heard a pro race by that wasnt on the rev limit? and clearly you dont watch RV2 race cuz he uses the rear to get through turns so fast. even on a 4t you have to steer with the rear. however vs a 2t you get more front end traction due to the extra weight and slower engine speed not spinning the rear tire as quick.
look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/
Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.
Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.
What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on January 30, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
As Motoman said, our argument is about cost and since only the top 1% have a blank check, the rest of the sport - as well as the organizers, have to consider cost. Something the organizers are NOT doing by allowing the 4-stroke to have such an advantage.
Just like our elected polititions in government, our elected representitives in our sport are only looking out for themselves and their special interests.
Post by: ford832 on January 30, 2013, 01:46:49 PM
QuoteIs there a link between the bike you choose to ride and intelect?
You spelled intellect incorrectly.
hth.
...and he rides a Honda.I guess that proves the premise of this thread.
Post by: cr125 rider on January 30, 2013, 05:53:43 PM
QuoteIs there a link between the bike you choose to ride and intelect?
You spelled intellect incorrectly.
hth.
...and he rides a Honda.I guess that proves the premise of this thread.
Ha i sold it.I am looking for a yz 250 or new ktm 250 if i can find one
Post by: ford832 on January 30, 2013, 06:17:57 PM
Ha i sold it.I am looking for a yz 250
We'll save you a seat at the Mensa meetings when you do.It's way more better to be more smarter.
Post by: Super Trucker on January 30, 2013, 08:25:20 PM
Post by: motoman356 on January 30, 2013, 08:34:08 PM
Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.
Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.
What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?
having more torque is what a 4t has over the 2ts. top end power is still TOP END. and i do think the running 250 vs 250 is a valid option. its already being show cased at the amateur nationals
what would i choose to ride? something like a KTM 200sx honestly. it way more power than a 125 and didnt get me into trouble like a 250 and i can swap a top end in 30min. but oil changes/filters/ gas is all the same( i was walked through doing a 4t top end once). however the 2013 KXF250 looks pretty nice. 41hp how much does a yz250 put out? like 45? i remember MXA testing RV2's '08 KX250F saying it put down 46hp. that was almost 6yrs ago. 6 yrs ago the stock 250f's put out 37hp. yes these are heavier but slower? ive seen more ppl go faster on one of these than any other bike. and any bike ive ridden took all my focus and efforts i could simply relax more on a 250f. but as far as being lazy on one. If i raced lazy on one i didnt do well. its only when i charged hard
Post by: Stusmoke on January 30, 2013, 10:10:54 PM
Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.
Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.
What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?
having more torque is what a 4t has over the 2ts. top end power is still TOP END. and i do think the running 250 vs 250 is a valid option. its already being show cased at the amateur nationals
what would i choose to ride? something like a KTM 200sx honestly. it way more power than a 125 and didnt get me into trouble like a 250 and i can swap a top end in 30min. but oil changes/filters/ gas is all the same( i was walked through doing a 4t top end once). however the 2013 KXF250 looks pretty nice. 41hp how much does a yz250 put out? like 45? i remember MXA testing RV2's '08 KX250F saying it put down 46hp. that was almost 6yrs ago. 6 yrs ago the stock 250f's put out 37hp. yes these are heavier but slower? ive seen more ppl go faster on one of these than any other bike. and any bike ive ridden took all my focus and efforts i could simply relax more on a 250f. but as far as being lazy on one. If i raced lazy on one i didnt do well. its only when i charged hard
MXAs YZ250 pumped out 47, not 45 if I remember correctly. And that was probably before they did whatever they did to get a KTM 250SXF to put out 42 horsepower when other magazines claim 38. Different dynos, obviously, but my point stands. If you're going to compare a modern, EFIed, tuned to the max Ryan villipoto's championship winning KX250F that is rebuilt after every single race weekend to a bone stock YZ250, then I resign my argument right now because that is a ridiculous notion. Now comparing the 250SXF to the 250SX has merit, in which case the 250SXF gets tromped.
250 two strokes don't have to be ridden flat out in the lites class. This is something that I think alot of people assume incorrectly, that you have more power than the 250Fs so you need to use every ounce of it. Against 250Fs, you don't have to be riding to the very edge of your physical fitness. Thats where big mistakes come from. Against my neighbours 250F, I can never go past half throttle on my YZ250 and still have a ton of breath left and be well and truly ahead of them. Now obviously, that guy sucks at riding. But my point stands.
Sorry, Stu. With a blank check, myself and anyone else serious about winning would ride the bike that turned the most consistant fastest lap times. In most cases, today, that would be the 450F.
Who wouldn't? I know I would. Although in my personal case I am far faster on two strokes than fours. I just can't ride them. But that was never the premise of my argument. The point of my argument was to look at the bigger picture. With equal displacement rules and no cost considerations, there is simply no advantage to a four stroke in motocross. Sure, they are easier to ride and will enable you to turn more consistent lap times, but at the end of the day they do that, because you are riding lazy. Put in the hours on a two stroke, and you'll be faster. Again, that is with equal displacement rules. It isn't as much fun to watch or ride. And I know for a fact that most people can turn consistently fast laptimes on two strokes. You just need practise in abundance and to be very comfortable on the bike.
Post by: citabjockey on January 31, 2013, 03:13:35 AM
Lets say that the powers that be finally move to cc for cc racing.
Would that spell doom for 4T bikes? Would the tracks be a lopsided 2T as they are now with 4T? I doubt anyone here would complain about such an event but all the guys who really like their 250F bikes would probably start a web site called "fourstrokemotocross.com".
I can just see it now. The rule change happens. Not much changes for a few years. Then Yamaha fields a open 2T (say in the 400cc range) in the -- what is now -- 450cc class. They have a pro rider named Henry Douglas. He does ok on it and by the end of the season he is darn close to winning races on it. The writing is on the wall.
Hmmmmm.....
Nah , could never happen....
Post by: Stusmoke on January 31, 2013, 03:46:53 AM
Post by: citabjockey on January 31, 2013, 04:08:16 AM
But, to the original topic, would take someone with a mile wide intellect to engineer it.
Actually I think you have a valid point jockey. Everyone jumped up and down when motocross went all two stroke the first time. And everyone jumped up and down when it all went back to four strokes. It will probably always be swinging in direction. But there are most definitely people who would stick with their 250Fs because they like the easy riding style and have the money to make it competitive with the power of two strokes.
Post by: Stusmoke on January 31, 2013, 06:03:18 AM
Post by: SachsGS on January 31, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
Post by: JRod4928 on January 31, 2013, 05:07:04 PM
We as consumers can change the AMA's mind by showing the manufacturers that 2 strokes aren't dead. Keep buying 2 strokes. The AMA amateur rules are helping us, as the amateur displacement rules which allow for larger displacement 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes (150's in the 250 4T class, etc). So we can still buy 2 strokes and be competitive.
Right now, KTM is doing the 2T a HUGE favor by selling 150 SX's and 300 SX's. Depending on your local rules, they're allowed in the 250 and 450 4T classes, respectively. As the 150 and 300's become more popular, the Japanese manufacturer will sell fewer 125's, and will have to build 150 and 300's that compete with KTM. Then you'll see more of a split between 2T and 4T on the amateur starting lines.
Then inevitibly, more and more young professional riders will come up through the ranks, racing 300's, and the AMA will have to adjust their rules.
It might take 5-10 years, but I think the 2 stroke will be back in AMA pro racing.
Post by: citabjockey on January 31, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
We all know that the professional MX/SX racers drive the market in this sport. Whatever they do, we all follow. And no professional is going to knowingly ride a 2T that has the same or less power output as a 4T, because it isnt as usable, so they're at a disadvantage. The AMA caters to manufacturers by making rules that forces amateurs to follow the trends set by the pros if they want to be competitive amongst their peers.
We as consumers can change the AMA's mind by showing the manufacturers that 2 strokes aren't dead. Keep buying 2 strokes. The AMA amateur rules are helping us, as the amateur displacement rules which allow for larger displacement 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes (150's in the 250 4T class, etc). So we can still buy 2 strokes and be competitive.
Right now, KTM is doing the 2T a HUGE favor by selling 150 SX's and 300 SX's. Depending on your local rules, they're allowed in the 250 and 450 4T classes, respectively. As the 150 and 300's become more popular, the Japanese manufacturer will sell fewer 125's, and will have to build 150 and 300's that compete with KTM. Then you'll see more of a split between 2T and 4T on the amateur starting lines.
Then inevitibly, more and more young professional riders will come up through the ranks, racing 300's, and the AMA will have to adjust their rules.
It might take 5-10 years, but I think the 2 stroke will be back in AMA pro racing.
Post by: ford832 on January 31, 2013, 09:15:04 PM
Post by: TotalNZ on January 31, 2013, 09:20:44 PM
you speak as though you race alot, do you? you also speak as though you have raced a 450 at a high level, have you?stusmoke. your definately right they are easier to ride. however there have been numerous test indicating that riding a 4t vs 2t allows a rider to make less mistakes albiet not a faste lap--reference transworldmx.com 250 vs 250f a few years back. and riding a 250f or 450 you still have to ride the top of the power. have you ever heard a pro race by that wasnt on the rev limit? and clearly you dont watch RV2 race cuz he uses the rear to get through turns so fast. even on a 4t you have to steer with the rear. however vs a 2t you get more front end traction due to the extra weight and slower engine speed not spinning the rear tire as quick.
look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/
Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.
Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.
What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?
alot of the statements you make are dead wrong. my friend who raced semi pro used to go through clutches just as fast on his 450 as he did on his 250 2t.
Post by: _X_ on January 31, 2013, 09:26:02 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on January 31, 2013, 09:35:45 PM
you speak as though you race alot, do you? you also speak as though you have raced a 450 at a high level, have you?stusmoke. your definately right they are easier to ride. however there have been numerous test indicating that riding a 4t vs 2t allows a rider to make less mistakes albiet not a faste lap--reference transworldmx.com 250 vs 250f a few years back. and riding a 250f or 450 you still have to ride the top of the power. have you ever heard a pro race by that wasnt on the rev limit? and clearly you dont watch RV2 race cuz he uses the rear to get through turns so fast. even on a 4t you have to steer with the rear. however vs a 2t you get more front end traction due to the extra weight and slower engine speed not spinning the rear tire as quick.
look my point is this. this site sometimes sounds more like a bunch 4t hating Nazi's then someone who is trying to help the sport. I've been on both sides. ive ridden every brand and every current engine size. i love riding 4ts and 2ts and both have pros and cons. the biggest factor right now is COST plain and simple. and this give the nod to 2ts. that is why we/this sport needs them. what is needed is OPTIONS. like auto racing there are options for the high budget team and the low budget weekender. however our sport needs the pro level to reflect this. i wrote all about changes i felt would help the sport.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/whats-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-motosupercross/
Ok first of all, being at the top of the power on a 4 stroke and 2 stroke is a whole different universe. Four strokes can simply be taken a gear lower. You shift when you feel like it and use the clutch in rare instances during a race.
Secondly, I agree about people here sometimes getting a little excited about the 2 v. 4 argument. We're all guilty, myself included. But at the end of the day, when you look at the big picture, todays definition of the four stroke motocross bike has NO place on a motocross track. Lets assume for a moment that you have a blank cheque for all your bikes. That takes costs out of the equation. And lets also assume that motocross around the world had the ridiculous rule of double displacement revoked. if its a 250, it gets run in the 250 class. Diesal, rotary, two stroke, four stroke, irrelevant.
What would you choose motoman? Would you choose the bike that didn't advance your skills very well, made you a lazy rider, wasn't as much fun to ride as its counterpart, harder to start (KTMs four strokes excluded here of course), made an obnoxious sound that carried a very long way, was heavier and slower?
alot of the statements you make are dead wrong. my friend who raced semi pro used to go through clutches just as fast on his 450 as he did on his 250 2t.
Going through clutches is different to using the clutch to keep it on the powerband don't you think? Using the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfaces under the insane torque of a 450 for example or keeping the front wheel down under hard acceleration. NOT dancing on the razorblade edge of a two strokes powerband.
Post by: cnrcpla on January 31, 2013, 11:51:26 PM
Quote
Using the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfacesMeh, just learn to drift
Hard pack terrain can be fun, if you know how to ride it. (just trying to lighten the mood over here to avoid a big argument that is impending)
Post by: _X_ on February 01, 2013, 12:04:34 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on February 01, 2013, 12:53:26 AM
Quote
have you seen this before cnrcpla? HA!What a couple of people about to argue, no never. I mean we're on the internet, no one EVER argues on the internet...
Post by: Stusmoke on February 01, 2013, 01:36:33 AM
QuoteUsing the clutch to control wheelspin on hardpack surfacesMeh, just learn to drift
It sure can. I used to have a ring of Rock hard black soil that I made with my back tire deliberately to learn my bikes traction breaking point. It is now in disarray because of a flood. Its not hard anymore lol. It was like a circle rut but hardpacked instead.
Post by: _X_ on February 01, 2013, 01:45:10 AM
Post by: ford832 on February 01, 2013, 02:24:26 PM
These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.
Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself
Here's my take on it.
As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.
Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....
Post by: SachsGS on February 01, 2013, 03:57:23 PM
Not so fast you rodent Ford! www.edmontonsun.com/2013/02/02/wiarton-willie-predicts-on-groundhog-day
Post by: Stusmoke on February 01, 2013, 09:45:14 PM
These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.
Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself
Here's my take on it.
As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.
Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....
This is true. One guess why I bought my 2005 CRF250R? Cos i'd never swung my leg over anything but four strokes. Well apart from my pw 80 and pw 50... But that doesn't count. I didn't even know they were two strokes until about a year ago lol.
Post by: Formerly knownas Premixed on February 01, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
These days,who would really want to ride a two stroke?Seriously.Think about it.
Nobody?Ok,at least I get to quote myself
Here's my take on it.
As a many year,multiple different 125 rider,I could easily hop on friends 250 2t's,4t's and 450's and at least make a workmanlike job of it.
After riding my 550 for a season,to hop on a 2t of any displacement was almost like trying to learn to ride a bike again.Though enjoyable,they were definitely spastic demonstrations until I broke myself of my 4t lazy habits.
Fourstrokes have been around long enough now that many of the younger generations coming up have never ridden a two stroke and to put a 125 or 250 2t in their hands and tell them to be competitive just ins't going to happen.Unless play riding,and even then,they will choose what they know.
Off road will hang on longer but unless things change soon,the window is going to close.
Btw,I saw my shadow this am.6 more weeks....
This is true. One guess why I bought my 2005 CRF250R? Cos i'd never swung my leg over anything but four strokes. Well apart from my pw 80 and pw 50... But that doesn't count. I didn't even know they were two strokes until about a year ago lol.
a 2005 crf is an excellent (parts) bike. best purchase I ever made. I got the 04-09 Showas for my 03 CR, they're getting revalved and redone now.