Post by: twosmoke595 on December 24, 2012, 11:35:04 PM
250 class:
Yamaha 2008-2010 YZ 125
450 class:
KTM 2013 250 SX
Yamaha 2008-2010 YZ 250
pretty pitiful. BUT it was even worse, because last year the newest ktm 250sx wasn't even on there, it was 2008-2011
SO this is good news...or should i say better news than there was
now all we need to do is either get the cc's upped to 144/300 or have them straight up cc for cc racing
(i'm still allowed to dream right?)
Post by: factoryX on December 25, 2012, 07:29:57 AM
Post by: mxracer239 on December 25, 2012, 09:26:49 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 26, 2012, 12:32:43 AM
Post by: evo550 on December 26, 2012, 12:40:21 AM
So why just the few 2stroke bikes approved to race?Because the manufacturers have to pay big $$ to have their bike homoglated ( I think thats how it's spelt) with the AMA.
There is no use throwing money away on registering a bike that would never see the light of day in a Supercross.
Post by: Jeram on December 26, 2012, 01:09:50 AM
Just another excuse for red tape to stop 'minority' teams from kicking arse on their own bikes and to give monopoly to the fctories
Post by: mxracer239 on December 26, 2012, 01:42:52 AM
Post by: twosmoke595 on December 26, 2012, 04:37:35 AM
so if u showed up on a older rm or kx 250 2 smoke u cldnt race?
nope
i think with the older bikes its more of a safety issue than just not wanting them in there, which i completely understand. the stress that bikes endure at a pro level is astronomical
Post by: mendoteach on December 31, 2012, 05:52:19 AM
Post by: kim wedding on December 31, 2012, 09:35:14 PM
All the changes to the track's have been to make 4$ racing better but we 2s rider's know how to fit track's for a 2s advantage and 2s do it with more style. I personally prefer mx to sx. I love sx jump's and have wonder'ed why their's not more sx jump's on certain track's but i would rather ride on or spectate on a outdoor track.
I think 2s people should concentrate on a 2s mx series. Right now i'm thinking a 30 to 40 east coast,west coast round series with 40 minute moto's 125 250 500 men's classes and women's class too. Not sure if it should be 1 moto or 2?
The track's should show case the different terrain's and soil's that 2s can race on from blue grove hard pack carlbad type track's to super tight sand track's with ton's of turn's,whoop's and no jump's and everything in between. Would love to see some track's of varing lenght's longer, shorter even tighter as long as it's safe. Maybe even some track's with 40 rider gate's as well as smaller track's with less riders on the gate.Anything to promote the greatest motorized sport in the world. Today is 1/1/13 middle of winter how much do you think could be accomplished by spring? I'm a opptimist i think it's all possible with the right people. If you love this sport and can do something. Step up and do it cuz one thing's for sure the ama won't and the rest of us are burning daylight. So here's to a ama free 2s series in 13 KIM
Post by: dsrtrider48 on December 31, 2012, 09:52:08 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on January 01, 2013, 12:43:10 AM
look at lap times this season for top riders in 250 4t and 450 4t classes. they are virtually the same. really doesn't matter bike size anymore...you can only go so fast around these technical tracks. to fast you overjump or blow thru corners. if a 250 2t is between a 250 4t and 450 4t they would get same lap times also. just put a good rider on anything and they will still come up on top. I like the idea of an entry level class (125 2t) and an open class (run what you brung).
To a certain extent thats true, but just remember that lighter bikes do everything better. Including stopping and turning. Sure the extra power would be utterly useless in the rhythm sections, but hte two strokes could under brake and out corner the four jokes. THAT is where they would win and thats all it takes to give the foopers a black eye.
Post by: motoxr377 on January 01, 2013, 04:20:10 AM
The AMA has no hand in pro racing. AMA Pro Racing, a completely different organization, does. The AMA controls amateur racing, which has displacement parity.
Although we all know AMA and AMA Pro Racing used to be one in the same, they aren't now. Although the AMA is still defective (Knobby Clark incident), MXSports and Feld Entertainment are the larger culprits in our stance against a 4T controlled universe.
Post by: bearorso on January 01, 2013, 08:10:45 AM
While I am not a member, let' s keep in mind that the AMA is different from AMA Pro Racing, which is controlled by MX Sports and Feld.
The AMA has no hand in pro racing. AMA Pro Racing, a completely different organization, does. The AMA controls amateur racing, which has displacement parity.
Although we all know AMA and AMA Pro Racing used to be one in the same, they aren't now. Although the AMA is still defective (Knobby Clark incident), MX Sports and Feld Entertainment are the larger culprits in our stance against a 4T controlled universe.
Yes, if Feld just decided to allow parity, it would be so, in SX. Feld Own SX. The AMA would rubber stamp pretty much anything they decided to do.
MX Sports, the same for Outdoors - though, DMG / The France family business, own the Outdoors, Road Racing, etc, etc. The 'Rubber Stamping' would be guaranteed, as well.
Tracks made for 4 Strokes? BS. Made for the bigger bikes - 250fs, are Not 125s. Tracks, are purely Made for 'The Spectacle' required. That we have 450s - modern versions of 'open classers'- in SX, is a bit strange, to an old bloke like me. I remember the early years of SX, that had a 500 class. I think Steve Stackable was the last 500 SX Champion?
That I constantly hear even the 450s hit their rev limiters, ups my respect for the riders. Most 450s rev limiters hit in at 10k or higher. Mad Bastards, are the 450 riders!
Nothing but Equivalency should be the standard. It just takes a bit of Balls from DC and Co, and Feld. And the FIM / Luongo. 250 2ts were Put Into The Rules, in MX2, for 2010, by the FIM. But, that rule, was 'Disappeared' - by Luongo / Honda, one would assume. It, Equivalency, won't change much, initially. And, the factories would be shooting themselves in both feet, and their Brain Pans, if they went off in a Huff. SX is a Massive Marketing vehicle for them. Not just for their Dirt Bikes - but Mainly, Hugely, for the companies NAME - and thence, All their products.
PS:
As to the 'homologation' of models - it's only a few thousand dollars - something like 2 or 3, I think. It's just a measure of a companies interest / commitment. Though, I'm sure a 2010 YZ could turn up on the line, with parts, like the frame and cases, made in the Very latest batch produced - whenever that has been. Not hard to do, if you wanted to campaign a 2t Yamaha. 2010 documented bike, with brand new frame and cases. I'd be very surprised if the part numbers are different to the 2013s.............
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on January 01, 2013, 09:33:18 AM
Tracks: Yes they were changed - to support better (4$) racing, but also for television - which I believe has as much to do with the 4$ conspiracy as anything. Berms were lowered so they wouldn't block camera angles. Riders no longer disappear under the woops and rarely behind a jump. In-door racing is what MOST supercross is these days yet these FOOTBALL stadiums can't vent the 2T smoke fast enough causing our beloved 2T haze. Even the roofless stadiums build up a layer that doesn't escape quickly. Unfortunately, TV cameras see that haze as a negative thing. And tracks WERE changed. Jump placements, face angles, the afore mentioned berms and woops...all were done, not to give 4$ an advantage but to make better racing in an all 4$ field.
Lap Times: Something to point out is that until this year, motos were held 250, 450, 250, 450, etc. That mean't that the 250's always had a track in slighly better condition. That may not be an issue on some tracks but on others, it was worth a couple of seconds between motos, particularly wet or sandy/rutted tracks - especially wet, sandy, rutted tracks (Daytona, I'm looking at you!). This year, things were supposed to different. I didn't notice in the SX, but in MX they rotated and lap times spread out. Even considering the super competitive 250F class of 2012 compared to the Dungy Victory Laps.
Rule Equivelencys: We all like to think that a 250T will run off in a 250F class and it might with the right conditions but it is just wrong to think that way. However, rarely does it happen when they are allowed. Say the World Vet Championship? Now this year it WAS won by a guy on a YZ 250 (New Zealander I believe) but the rest of the 250T's were in the back of the pack. This was a cas of a significantly better prepared rider. Not a better bike. Even though in European MX, were the 250T has to race in the 450F class, why are there no privateers? Because even in an open rule class (Europe still can have "Works" bikes), you can't make a 250T reliably faster than a works 450F.
I hope I have not blastphemied in the above. Just trying to adjust the picture and tune out the rhetoric.
Post by: bearorso on January 01, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
We seem to be on the same wave length.
A bit too much BS /Hysteria is written at times. Bikes are Bikes. I like all of them, but prefer 2ts just that bit more than 4ts.
All I care about is that Equivalency is achieved, and the "handicap" system is burned to the ground.
Things are changing, and I hope that they will continue to do so. But, I'm not holding my breath. It could still take a while, at the very uppermost levels, due to the "foxes running the chicken coop".
Post by: kim wedding on January 02, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
Riffraff i like the idea of both bikes 2s and 4s on the track at the same time,but the bike's seem to prefer different line's and i hate it when 4$ destroy 2s line's and i bet 4$ hate when 2s destroy their line's. 2s and 4$ have enough difference's to warrant different track's to show them at their best. At the amateur level you need a criteria to advance rider's up through the rank's novice, intermediate, expert to keep racing fair but you still race the bike you want 125, 250 ,500 2s or 4$ at the pro level i think you should be allowed to ride what ever bike you want for as long as you want.
I mean if a guy want's to be a 125 champion and only a 125 champion why should someone else tell him to move to the 250 or 500 2s or 4$ class. Me personally i would want to be the winningist 125 2s rider ever and don't care to race any other size bike. One more comment each bike 125,250, 500 2s and 4$ deserve their own championship it would encourge rider's to race their favorite bike and stop some people from sand baggin out of fear of being moved to a different class they might not be as good at. Just my humble opinion. KIM
Post by: bearorso on January 02, 2013, 04:39:58 PM
F*** that idea, and the horse it came on!
The Premier class, should be about mastering the Big bikes, as well as the tracks. But, if a company /rider, wants to ride anything between 251c / 300, to 450 / hopefully bigger maximum capacity limit, go for it. Like it was in the 60s /70s /earlier 80s 500 era. Many different capacities were used, many different capacities, won.
The Sport has had too much dumbing down as it is.
125s - need to be back. Perhaps that's the only class I'd agree with having an age limit.
MX2 /250s, then MX1 - 450s - or "open". No Age limits. And No F***ing around with the capacity by lowering the maximum.
And No Handicap Rules.
Effing around with capacities, has truly been a disastrous thing for MX and Off Road in general. Throw Road Racing into it as well.
We need to get away from that - and Never Go there Again. Utter stupidity, and complete and total Bull S**T!
kim wedding:
4 Stroke, 2 Stroke lines - who gives a Flying ****? It's RIDERS lines. And, with a variety of types of bikes, and riders various styles, out on the track, we'll have an ever changing set of lines. The way it bloody well should be.
Post by: kim wedding on January 02, 2013, 07:47:18 PM
I win some lose some but i ride what i want. Beside's 125's are the most aggressive racing machine's ever made and kid's should'nt be the only one's to get to ride them.Most people i know that don't like 125's don't like the all or nothing riding style of them and that's not the bike it's the quality of the rider. If everyone run's a different displacement and their's 20 different displacement's that just delude's the racing and make's it hard to have a class for each size bike.
As far as line's go on a mx track they can change from lap to lap we all know this. I don't like how 4$ destroy berm's and have turned whoop's into wimp's. I'm a sand speciallist the rougher the track the better the more turn's the better. If it does'nt have a jump i'm cool with that. Don't get me wrong i love blue grove hard pack jump infested track's as well.I think it takes all kind's of track's to cover mx.Even if at time's it's 2s on the track one day and 4$ the next week and even mixed race's. Each displacement deserve's it's own class so does a run what you brung class one off's and full factory. If for no other reason than to show off new technologies.I do wish that at time's that all rider's had the same horsepower and torque number's to see who the best is and not who has more power in what ever displacement you ride.
Fair racing is what i'm about for you, me and everyone even 4$ rider's but seeing as to it's 2s that have been cheated the most my effort's go there beside's honestly their my passion. Let's flip the script and say if you win a 125 title, 250 title you have to move up to 500's and if you win the 500 title you have to move back to 125's.Seem's like alot of people telling someone else what to ride. SO RIDE WHAT YOU LOVE RIDING, RIDE FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.... KIM
Post by: _X_ on January 02, 2013, 09:23:43 PM
Post by: kim wedding on January 02, 2013, 10:28:16 PM
Look at steve lamson on a 125 whipped everyone in mxdn. awesome 125 rider not so much of a 250 or 500 rider seem's to me he should of rode 125's alway's, except some stupid rule forcing him to move up.
Racerx I heard a rumor saying you were dragged out of you'r home and placed in a insane asylum i'm sure i could get you placed in the asylum i'm currently being housed at. My psychistrist DR RIPPIN is trying this new 2s treatment and he say's i'm making great progress. If i could just do something about the bed wetting. The answer is no i don't wet my bed just everyone else's. So here's to a early release. KIM
Post by: _X_ on January 02, 2013, 10:36:53 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on January 02, 2013, 11:04:27 PM
Off topic. Its a good rule I think. Its probably not the best idea to have 12 year olds competing against 30 year olds like windham or however old he is now.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on January 03, 2013, 11:17:33 AM
Now with the 4-strokes at 450cc, the organizing bodies are looking at it and saying, "these bikes are developing too much power for conditions" and looking at lowering it yet again. Realize also that when the 450's 4$ took over, they were equivelent to the 250 2T - not the 500 2T - or even the big bore 4$ like Jacky Martins rode. That was the big coop. People (fans) wanted the 500 class but the organizers (and riders) don't - so they changed technology to keep it that way. When you look at MX3, you are not seeing the premier class...you are seeing the MX1 "B" class.
Look, I have several open class bikes. I like them. I watch MX3 and I yearn for the days when the machines were monsters to be tamed by the best riders. But I also know that without limits, we would push ourselves until deaths occured. Several high profile ones like that and tracks will close. New ones will be affraid of lawsuits or not get permits. Manufacturers will pull out, not wanting to be associated with a Death Sport (Mercedes in 1955 and Montesa in the '60's, thus the creation of Bultaco) and the many sponsors who will pull support (re: Ayrton Senna's death). Sure, we should be free to do what we want, but professional sports should have FAIR and concise rules to protect us from ourselves as well as the investors in the Business.
Kim, I am also a big fan of the 125. I have raced them continuously for almost 40 years. What you say is true. I don't like being told I can't (even at my age) race Pro 125, but the idea is to make people ride the big bikes. Otherwise, new kids would not get the chance to come up. They instituted it after Guy Cooper was dominating even though he was 30+ years old but was uncompetitive in the 250 class. Of course he wan't the only one, but a lot of "older" guys were dropping down when they were no longer competitive on the bigger bikes. Teams wanted the big names and kids were not having a ride available.
Again, all this comes down to protecting the investment in the sport.