Post by: TMKIWI on December 13, 2012, 07:06:05 AM
One of the biggest developmental shifts we?ve seen over the past few months is the amount of Australian factory motocross teams either downsizing or slashing their MX2 race programs.
And
There?s too much pressure and money involved with developing the 250Fs; you need to spend a lot of money to get the horsepower gains and the parts budget we burn through is almost double that of the 450s.
When the top teams are ditching their mx2 teams because of costs, there is something wrong with the sport.
The same thing is happening here.
The "feeder" class should not be more expensive then the "main" class.
Full story.
http://www.motoonline.com.au/2012/12/13/the-point-factory-mx2-teams/
Post by: Jeram on December 13, 2012, 07:19:17 AM
Post by: evo550 on December 13, 2012, 10:22:45 AM
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence
Post by: msambuco on December 13, 2012, 01:45:15 PM
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence
Then we would effectively have a 250 and open class. A kid would go from an 85 to a 250? Your suggstion actually makes perfect sense. Just add in a 125 class. They could even limit 2 stroke size in the open class or make it 4 stroke only and I don't think anyone would even care. Factorys could sell 65,85,125,250 2 strokes and 250,350,450 four strokes and be successful and have brand loyalty. Oh wait, KTM already does that. Did they see this coming?
Post by: _X_ on December 13, 2012, 10:35:08 PM
Post by: bearorso on December 14, 2012, 05:39:55 PM
Can't work out why they don't just make mx2 250 two strokes and mx1 450 four strokes... Would make so much sence
No, that sort of BS is not what we need.
Just:
125cc Class
250cc Class
Open Class
No concessions to Any type of engine. Open class - basically so I'm not seen to be favouring anything. The 500 class, Always had various sized engines used in it. In the GPs, even when "500"s had become the norm., there were a lot of bikes with smaller capacities . Maxiumum power, that can be used on the dirt, is not a problem with say, 350+cc engines, of Any type. It's the power delivery / engine weight / size and feel, that becomes to variable / preferential thing for riders And Factories.
A Simple, 3 Class System, like we had before things turned to hell, is All that is needed.
The MX2 / 250 class being more costly to compete in?
It's always been the case - in "real life" and even "Factory Team" scenarios. Unless, of course, when it was HRC putting so much into the 500cc MX GPs, with their RC500s. And Yamaha with the 87 / 88 OWs.
500 2ts, for the average rider, and even highly skilled, competitive at high level riders ( look at the last years ( well, most years) of the 500cc MX class in the US (and even GPs, with the 2ts still around), '500s' were 'relatively' cheap to run. I remember a Dirt Bike magazine comparo between Bartolinis Husaberg 500 (whatever size it was - he was the holeshot King in 500 GPs - well, he and his brother were) and Lamsons CR500. Lamson being a non factory rider, at the time. The CR500 was said to still be on it's std piston, even after most of a season, of Nationals and numerous other races. In the US, you had blokes like Gene Naumec (sp?) in the top 5.
Same thing for the 450 class, basically. It's mostly moving power 'around', to suite the rider. It's easy to get more HP out of a 450, but, you don't Need much more. It's about usability, and rider prefference.
But, without a doubt, 250 4ts, REALLY make things expensive, when you are 'keeping up with the Jones'', be it at club , or National level. Just like it was with 125s - but Far More damaging to your wallet.
It's why that young Kiwis' (Bastards
- Enslave NZ Now! [you've Got to see that video], I say) family, and a few others, raced a 250 2t, to win the OZ 'D' / 19yr old ?? class, this year. I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?
Post by: TMKIWI on December 14, 2012, 10:22:15 PM
I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?
Nope. My local dealer hasn't sold a YZ in 2 years.
He has sold plenty of YZF's tho. 
It's amazing how naive the kids are.
Post by: factoryX on December 14, 2012, 10:27:52 PM
Reminds me of my friend telling me that a 2012 ktm 250sx was to small of a bike >.<I'm amazed that DK is allowed by Yamaha, to race the YZ 250. Perhaps, they are outselling the YZF, over the ditch?
Nope. My local dealer hasn't sold a YZ in 2 years.
It's amazing how naive the kids are.
Post by: TMKIWI on December 14, 2012, 10:31:47 PM
Most jump straight from 85 to 250F.
Big wheel 2 strokes are just too foreign to them.
Post by: bearorso on December 14, 2012, 10:45:00 PM
You're right with that one TMKIWI.
A young bloke I worked with in 2010, whenhe was bitching about the cost of trying to get his KXF competitive with the 'richer riders' / Team Riders, was stunned when I offered to put a KX250 2t engine in his frame, if he went out and got one.
He thought I was a madman - Never could a 250 2t be better than his 4t - that he was bitching about being too slow / expensive to run.
Dumber than a post?
Or just plain uninformed / ill-informed.
Take your pick, I guess.
I feel sorry for the youngsters nowadays.
Sure, modern 4ts Are great bikes, but there's another , very easy option, even if you have to make it yourself.
Post by: Dirtsaw on December 14, 2012, 10:52:49 PM
Post by: TMKIWI on December 14, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
Dumber than a post?
Or just plain uninformed / ill-informed.
Take your pick, I guess.
Yep, that is what I find.
Not their fault I suppose , just ill-informed.
I do try to explain to them the facts but you get the impression that they are thinking " Whats this old dude talking about ".
Maybe I need a monster shirt and a flat bill.
Post by: Jeram on December 15, 2012, 03:41:05 AM
you are literally spoon fed shit from an early age by marketing giants who want you to make an ill informed purchase at their benefit and your loss (whether it be your health, wallet or well being or a combination).
In the age of Gen Y and even with Gen Z emerging I find it ironic how they feel they are so immune to advertising and marketing that it placed in front of them (TV/youtube adds, internet banners and pop ups, printed adverts etc), yet they are completely blind to the new marketing techniques which immerse them so deeply in the culture of a particular product that it just feels 'natural and right'.
Only way to beat em is to join em, and by that I mean emersing people into the culture of two strokes to show the positive attributes
Post by: twosmoke595 on December 15, 2012, 04:00:29 AM
no different to anything else in western society...
you are literally spoon fed shit from an early age by marketing giants who want you to make an ill informed purchase at their benefit and your loss (whether it be your health, wallet or well being or a combination). couldn't be more true sadly
In the age of Gen Y and even with Gen Z emerging I find it ironic how they feel they are so immune to advertising and marketing that it placed infront of them, yet they are completely blind to the new marketing techniques which immerse them so deeply in the culture of a particular product that it just feels 'natural and right'.
Only way to beat em is to join em, and by that I mean emersing people into the culture of two strokes to show the positive attributes
Post by: Dirtsaw on December 15, 2012, 04:16:50 AM
Post by: SachsGS on December 15, 2012, 04:18:12 AM
Now it's time to return to the commune and do some yoga.
Post by: _X_ on December 15, 2012, 03:19:22 PM
Post by: SachsGS on December 15, 2012, 04:20:50 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 15, 2012, 05:15:01 PM
Post by: citabjockey on December 15, 2012, 11:07:24 PM
equals trials
Post by: _X_ on December 15, 2012, 11:15:28 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on March 05, 2013, 07:02:49 AM