Two Stroke Motocross

Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: GP500cc on August 29, 2012, 03:53:48 PM

Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 29, 2012, 03:53:48 PM
Do you know what is the ONLY racing series that allows fair racing in regards to cc per cc? I will tell you, it is the Erzberg enduro series, this is the only one. The other ones: the CMC, the AMA, the FIM, et al, all force 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes twice the size. Oh and by the way, the KTM 250 SX makes as much horsepower as the best 450F and nearly as much torque with nearly 1/2 the engine size, not enough? I continue.. anyway, the Erzberg is the toughest, most brutal race on the planet and, guess what? This "fair" race forces riders to ride the best, lightest, most potent bike and with over 800 entries this year, how many 4 strokes finished in the top 10? NONE! How many finished in the top 20? NONE! How many even finished? NONE! So go ahead and praise the engine that can't even finish the Erzberg, it makes you look... well, like a flat-earther. Don't buy the hype, it is only to sell 4 stroke parts to the "followers!" Are you one of them? I know I sure am not.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 29, 2012, 09:37:09 PM
Saying that the 250 SX makes as much power and almost as much torque as a 450f only helps the AMA in their argument against putting the 250 smokers in the 125 class. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the current 450f`s make more power than the 250 SX.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: cnrcpla on August 29, 2012, 10:26:36 PM
KTM 250sx makes 50HP (give or take a few) stock. KTM 450f makes 53.3 HP (give or take a few) stock. At the moment that's technically not fair. But the 450's are still being developed my manufacturers and the 250 2Ts have been at a stand still basically for a few years now. The 450's are getting more powerful than the 250 2T's and in time I'm sure they will far surpass two strokes if development doesn't continue on them.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 12:48:24 AM
Yes, I am well aware that a 450cc 4 stroke makes 53.3 HP, it's also 250cc bigger! Did you hear that the 2010 Maico 250 2 strokes are making 64 horsepower stock and in 2008 the KTM 250 GP made 113 horsepower and 80 ft pounds of torque.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: cnrcpla on August 30, 2012, 12:57:57 AM
Wow  :o Do you happen to have a dyno chart for those? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to see it   :)
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 02:03:01 AM
The KTM 250 GP is not a MX bike, it's a bike in the 250cc class of motoGP. This is what I am talking about I'm sorry but I don't have the dyno run but it was on KTM's site back in 2008. The GP250cc uses twin cylinder 2 stroke engines
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: cnrcpla on August 30, 2012, 02:06:23 AM
I knew what you meant about the KTM GP, but still. Thanks for the video  ;D
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 02:09:53 AM
No problem, after all we all support the 2 strokes right? This is my personal favorite 2 stroke video
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: chump6784 on August 30, 2012, 04:25:21 AM
Quote from: GP500cc on August 29, 2012, 10:53:48 PM
Do you know what is the ONLY racing series that allows fair racing in regards to cc per cc? I will tell you, it is the Erzberg enduro series, this is the only one. The other ones: the CMC, the AMA, the FIM, et al, all force 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes twice the size. Oh and by the way, the KTM 250 SX makes as much horsepower as the best 450F and nearly as much torque with nearly 1/2 the engine size, not enough? I continue.. anyway, the Erzberg is the toughest, most brutal race on the planet and, guess what? This "fair" race forces riders to ride the best, lightest, most potent bike and with over 800 entries this year, how many 4 strokes finished in the top 10? NONE! How many finished in the top 20? NONE! How many even finished? NONE! So go ahead and praise the engine that can't even finish the Erzberg, it makes you look... well, like a flat-earther. Don't buy the hype, it is only to sell 4 stroke parts to the "followers!" Are you one of them? I know I sure am not.
Both the Australian motocross and supercross series have cc vs cc and so do the new Zealand motocross championships
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: fabbo on August 30, 2012, 05:34:37 AM
Not sure about that. I seem to recall if you are an expert or A grade you are not allowed to race a 250 2t against a 250 4t.

Just saying not sure, anyone out there confirm this
Quote from: chump6784 on August 30, 2012, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: GP500cc on August 29, 2012, 10:53:48 PM
Do you know what is the ONLY racing series that allows fair racing in regards to cc per cc? I will tell you, it is the Erzberg enduro series, this is the only one. The other ones: the CMC, the AMA, the FIM, et al, all force 2 strokes to compete against 4 strokes twice the size. Oh and by the way, the KTM 250 SX makes as much horsepower as the best 450F and nearly as much torque with nearly 1/2 the engine size, not enough? I continue.. anyway, the Erzberg is the toughest, most brutal race on the planet and, guess what? This "fair" race forces riders to ride the best, lightest, most potent bike and with over 800 entries this year, how many 4 strokes finished in the top 10? NONE! How many finished in the top 20? NONE! How many even finished? NONE! So go ahead and praise the engine that can't even finish the Erzberg, it makes you look... well, like a flat-earther. Don't buy the hype, it is only to sell 4 stroke parts to the "followers!" Are you one of them? I know I sure am not.
Both the Australian motocross and supercross series have cc vs cc and so do the new Zealand motocross championships
?
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: TotalNZ on August 30, 2012, 06:16:01 AM
Yeah the racing in OZ and NZ is cc for cc. I thought amateur racing in the states is too?
Seems that the only series that aren't are the ama pro events.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 02:24:42 PM
I thought so to.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on August 30, 2012, 03:16:39 PM
Well, I was going to say it is fair for the Pro class in the GNCC's but then I realized that the GNCC's and WORC's have adopted XC1 and 2 classes.

So, all regional AMA Harescrambles and Enduros are still open classes for the AA riders. I believe the National HS and Enduros are the same way. It is as it should be...

"run what you brung".
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: scotty dog on August 30, 2012, 03:32:14 PM
The WA lites state title was won by a 2 stroke 250, an rm 250, made em all look silly by winning every moto I think :D
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 03:56:22 PM
We need some more TMs, Miaco's, KTMs, Husky, GAS GAS, OSSA, and others who support the 2 strokes more in America! Imagine if the AMA allowed fair racing (won't because of Honda) and lets say that these company's made a 450 2 stroke with Direct Injection or Fuel Injection with the lightest frames possible and all the tech that the 4 strokes where receiving. That sounds like a good race to me!
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on September 01, 2012, 07:41:18 PM
Honda has the AMA in there pocket
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: _X_ on September 01, 2012, 08:42:38 PM
wait this just in....ktm dominating mx globaly! we are now all doomed.
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: GP500cc on September 02, 2012, 01:34:41 PM
lol
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: Jeram on September 02, 2012, 10:10:25 PM
Quote from: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 07:48:24 AM
Yes, I am well aware that a 450cc 4 stroke makes 53.3 HP, it's also 250cc bigger! Did you hear that the 2010 Maico 250 2 strokes are making 64 horsepower stock and in 2008 the KTM 250 GP made 113 horsepower and 80 ft pounds of torque.
Sorry but the 2010 maico would not have made 64hp. Big dollar 250 national superkarts that are professionally developed to make big hp at high rpm, they make 65hp at 11000 rpm with no power prior to 6000 rpm.

And although the ktm 250gp was a great effort by ktm, the reed valve induction was no match for the 110hp disc valve aprilias and derbis
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: msambuco on September 02, 2012, 10:31:04 PM
Here is a simple math fact. If a 250SX makes 50 HP a 450F will be as advanced as the two stroke when it makes 90HP. I bet it could make 90HP...., for a minute or two.
50HP/ 250cc X 450cc = 90HP :o
Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: 2T Institute on September 02, 2012, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: GP500cc on August 30, 2012, 07:48:24 AM
Yes, I am well aware that a 450cc 4 stroke makes 53.3 HP, it's also 250cc bigger! Did you hear that the 2010 Maico 250 2 strokes are making 64 horsepower stock and in 2008 the KTM 250 GP made 113 horsepower and 80 ft pounds of torque.

Bartol wished KTM's made 113HP/80ftlbs, Maico wished their 250 made 64HP to here is a Aprilia RSA250 102HP and about 45ftlbs torque

Title: A fair racing series that allows 2 strokes to compete cc per cc!
Post by: twosmoke595 on September 02, 2012, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: msambuco on September 03, 2012, 05:31:04 AM
Here is a simple math fact. If a 250SX makes 50 HP a 450F will be as advanced as the two stroke when it makes 90HP. I bet it could make 90HP...., for a minute or two.
50HP/ 250cc X 450cc = 90HP :o

LOL that'll never happen