Post by: kim wedding on August 16, 2012, 06:11:08 PM
Post by: _X_ on August 17, 2012, 12:13:34 AM
Post by: kim wedding on August 17, 2012, 01:31:19 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 17, 2012, 01:54:54 AM
Post by: kim wedding on August 17, 2012, 03:26:05 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 17, 2012, 03:34:31 AM
Post by: kim wedding on August 17, 2012, 04:00:13 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 17, 2012, 04:26:53 AM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 18, 2012, 01:28:05 PM
But hey if you too can afford it then get it on your bikes and let us all know how it is.
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on August 18, 2012, 03:35:20 PM
Post by: _X_ on August 18, 2012, 10:40:45 PM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 18, 2012, 11:52:18 PM
aw someones gealous, and i remeber a certain revolution not so long ago that us yanks won...and 1812...and materly basin.
What revolution would that be then? American independance? I very much doubt you actually remember that.
And for future reference jealous is spelt with a J not a G.
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on August 19, 2012, 01:18:37 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 19, 2012, 02:05:36 AM
Post by: Jeram on August 19, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Micro blue coat cylinder bores and pistons
they want to make your bore super smooth which completely goes against the theory of honing your cylinder. A smooth surface doesnt hold oil as well as a slightly rough surface, this is why we hone cylinders instead of polishing them.
Microblue sponsored a yz250 in AMA a few years back, they tried to run 100:1 premix ration with limited success. It kept seizing unfortunately from what I was told (reliable source)
things like bearings in the motor and wells are well worth it tho in my opinion, but arnt really worth doing untill youve done everything you possibly can do
ei: suspension, wheels, brakes, heavily worked over motor, carb and pipe (custom made)
I honestly think you would get a bigger power gain by removing the stator and running a total loss sytem with A123 cells. but even that would only give you 0.1KW (100W generator)
the micro blue might seem like good bang for buck, but how much extra bang are you getting from your 1200 bucks, thats the big question.
by the way, I think their product is great if used in the right areas. low friction coatings are brilliant!
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 19, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
ha! truth hurts. don't hate appreciate.
Truth hurts? What the hell are you on about? The truth is Micro Blue coating your inner engine is not going to make any difference what so ever to the average rider (only pros would notice it and even for them the differences would be minor). Two strokes are not going to make any miraculous comebacks by using old technology that's already been tried and already has failed in competition (project two fiddy).
Post by: kim wedding on August 19, 2012, 06:21:19 PM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 19, 2012, 07:57:22 PM
And in terms of a second job, I'm not afraid of working for stuff (been working 5 jobs over the summer so I could buy a car in september) aslong as its worth it, and a 1000- 1500 to make my bike go slightly faster isnt worth it (might aswell just swap it for a 450 and save the 1500 for a rebuild).
Post by: nom de guerre on August 19, 2012, 08:31:28 PM
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on August 19, 2012, 08:53:53 PM
You have all the parts of the transmission done, with a double thick coating applied to the dogs. Then you can run the transmission dry without oil... It's Environmentally retarded. Or you can run sand or Ol' Roy brand kitty litter inner as the loobercan't. It worked good but that boy was a known gas huffer.
And whats'n ever you do, don't fergetaboutcher bearins. Micro Blue has one's called "Blue Balls" and "Micro Blue Balls" for them Minibikes.
Post by: dogger315 on August 19, 2012, 09:09:18 PM
is intriguing and is probably worth it to someone trying to chase down that last little bit after
everything else has been done.
I have all of the rotating assemblies in my race engines Cryo-REMed. This process is not a
coating like Micro Blue, but a polishing process that smooths the surface without changing
the dimensions.
My race engines already produce more power than I can use, so the Cryo-REM is there to
reduce friction which reduces heat. I also get a much smoother and lighter clutch pull, far
better shifting performance and less wear. I found a shop that does a complete bottom
end and power valve components for $400.
The Cryo-REM process might be an alternative that allows you to "sneak up" on the low
friction route without spending as much. If you are still dead set on doing the Micro Blue,
you can always add it later.
dogger
Post by: _X_ on August 19, 2012, 09:53:12 PM
Post by: kim wedding on August 20, 2012, 12:22:16 AM
Post by: nom de guerre on August 20, 2012, 12:47:59 AM
To continue the 2 stroke revolution... what are you doing? Talking about some expensive process to an old bike? Just do it already and stop sounding like an uneducated wacko from the outer fringe of the 2 stroke "revolution"...
You really think that this process is going to be an magical elixir for your '07 CR 125 and make you World Champ? Gonna beat the world with this? Gonna win just because you spent a ridiculous amount of money on something that you will never notice?
Good golly Kim, go for it and dominate the World!!!!!!
Post by: _X_ on August 20, 2012, 12:51:35 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 20, 2012, 12:59:45 AM
Post by: nom de guerre on August 20, 2012, 01:22:06 AM
Say, where are the pictures from the OP ride?
Post by: _X_ on August 20, 2012, 01:31:17 AM
Post by: nom de guerre on August 20, 2012, 01:44:00 AM
Post by: _X_ on August 20, 2012, 01:48:41 AM
Post by: kim wedding on August 20, 2012, 04:08:03 AM
Post by: nom de guerre on August 20, 2012, 04:30:45 AM
Post by: Jeram on August 20, 2012, 06:41:27 AM
they tried running the micro blue AMA YZ250 at 100:1 and it siezed.
while some people run stock KTM 300's at 60:1 without dramas.
Post by: TotalNZ on August 20, 2012, 09:53:46 AM
I for one want to try the micro blue ceramic bearings in my gear box, wheels and my mains. Not for any power increase but less friction ie heat and a longer service life.
Post by: Jeram on August 20, 2012, 12:04:33 PM
absolutely the best gain IMO
Id been keen to see if you could get the big end and small end bearings done plus the crank pin, gudgeon pin and even the contact surfaces of the connecting rod.
Im pretty sure they can do it
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on August 20, 2012, 02:26:54 PM
You want to let as much clean, fresh air through the jets as possible. Small jets will hold back some of the clean, fresh air.
ALSO and this, it's very ipmortant the big fat pilot jet.
It's environmentally retarded.
Post by: citabjockey on August 20, 2012, 03:19:31 PM
What could have been an interesting thread is not. *sigh*
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 20, 2012, 05:32:12 PM
nom just so you know i'm a full grown man. i know you'r trying to start a arguement over someone trying to drop some knowledge on you.Again i'm going to say anything that helps CUT THE EMISSIONS ON A 2 STROKE IS KICK ASS as for as the price. I DONT CONTROL IT. As far as it sounds to me your the one all pissed off and crying. As far as i'm concerned everything i can learn about helping 2strokes is worth knowing and telling others. gpnewhouse7, i posted about 93 cr's on a post that's question was whats your bike and your dream bike. My dream bike is a 93 cr framed bike and my point was'nt that you have to like my choice.My point was that if you can't get or build a killer bad 2 stroke get a 4 stroke. When you said about paying more to help up grade the 2stroke to go and get a 4$ instead, you dissed yourself if you'r a true 2stroke rider. Me personally nothing and i mean nothing could or will stop me from learning or fighting for 2strokes, so one more time, LET ALL US KIDDIE'S GET ALONG OR MOMMA WILL HAVE TO SEPERATE US.
I love my two strokes BUT the reason I love them is that I can be competitive with minimal cost. If two strokes had to have thousands spent on them to be competitive with four strokes and it became cheaper to ride a four stroke I would happily have one (quite liked the 250 rmz I tried last weekend). If you open your eyes a little you'll realize that the chances of you becoming a pro motocrosser are worse than your chances of winning the lottery, so why not race as cheaply as possible, there's nothing wrong with the 450 four stroke motocrosser's of today, they're just expensive to rebuild when things go wrong thats all.
And in term's of you not telling people what to ride, here is a quote of what you ACTUALLY SAID.
"i have a 2007 honda cr125.my dream bike is a 1993 reinforced chromoly steel framed case reed motor with a 6 speed transmission, showa suspension,2007 rear fender 2007 or newer front fender honda cr125 or honda cr250 with the same components and a cr500 built the same any rider who doesnt like that should ride a 4$ they desirve it".
See my point?
Post by: kim wedding on August 20, 2012, 06:39:32 PM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on August 20, 2012, 07:18:12 PM
Yes the EPA are putting pressure on the manufacturers to reduce their machine's emissions, but they cannot and never will be able to stop you riding and racing your two stroke.
The only thing the two strokes are currently in need of to allow their dominance of motocross to make a comeback is either some common sense in the AMA (doubtful that will happen) or a huge breakthrough in performance allowing them to become more than double the power of an equally sized four stroke. Currently there are no miracle parts (available or up and coming) that can acheive this, so until that special piece of the jig saw comes along we will all have to make do with the bikes we have and dream of the bikes we wish we had.
I am however on the case of trying to find that miracle piece, after years of hard work at high school I have landed myself a scholarship to a top private school to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics which then follows on to pay for my University fee's so I can study Structural stress or Automotive engineering with a hope of one day bringing the smoker's back (with avengence) to motocross and superbike racing.
So as you can see I'm not here for arguments (I'm here for new ideas), but when someone appears to be telling me what I should ride I get annoyed very quickly (I get enough of that from the local pricks who take the piss out of me for having a headlight on my bike).
Post by: kim wedding on August 20, 2012, 08:09:35 PM
Post by: kim wedding on August 20, 2012, 08:27:44 PM
Post by: dbf498 on August 20, 2012, 11:39:55 PM
Post by: cnrcpla on August 21, 2012, 01:52:45 AM
I will be there for a few races before the season closes, so through up some 2T signs racer x 
On a side note, the only sure fire way to make two strokes come back is kick the crap out of four strokes. Show people how awesome two strokes are by beating them. It's as simple as that. No need for thousands of dollors to make a machine fast. It was a very interesting idea though Kim, thanks for educating me about this stuff I had no idea what it was before this thread.
Post by: dogger315 on August 21, 2012, 02:53:51 AM
Quote
when you posted about the cryo-rem process you told the cost but not who to contact about the process. sounds interesting.Check out dbf498's post - Evans is the place I use. They are primarily into auto racing, but they have
coated several of my engines and they do a super job for a reasonable price. For instance, if you
just want the REM (micro polishing process) done, the cost is around $250 for pretty much everything
that rotates. The Cryo process is designed to strengthen the metal and provide a more durable part.
The reason I mentioned this process in my response to you was the Micro Blue folks believe the REM
process is a good fit with Micro Blue. I think I may send some parts from my next engine build to
them to see whats up.
dogger
Post by: kim wedding on August 21, 2012, 03:58:09 AM
Post by: Jeram on August 21, 2012, 04:01:01 AM
When done properly you can cool a part slowly after casting or forging to create a single crystal part (turbine blades etc) object which has all the properties they claim in the brochure. But if you allow the part to cool normally and then cryo treat it, it does zip/nada/nil/nothing etc
Kim, you keep using the term solution, how is this an emissions solution? You keep avoiding the million dollar question by arguing with other members. While there is still oil entering the cases with the fuel there will still be high particle emissions. But there is already a solution to that, buy an Ossa 300i (bout the same price as a new ktm)
Post by: kim wedding on August 21, 2012, 05:13:01 AM
Post by: GlennC on August 21, 2012, 06:22:21 AM
Post by: Jeram on August 21, 2012, 07:19:51 AM
I NEVER USED THE WORD SOLUTION,but it's as good as any word for it. Isnt a SOLUTION what we're all hopeing for? A ossa 300 seems to be your SOLUTION to the problem. Is it clean burning? I hope some thing work's and that it's not all snake oil. You talk as if you know alot so do you know of anything that works or just how to piss on everything. I posted to tell what i learned and to learn from other's knowledge. I did'nt know or could'nt of imagined how off the wall some of this crap is. If i posted some thing you don't agree with that fine . If i said some thing and you did'nt get it, ask me, i'm more than glad to explain myself . one guy was mad becaue he thought i was pushing my choice of bike on him, we talked it out. PROBLEM SOLVED.To all the people who've answered my post with some manners and no attitude. THANKS THANKS THANKS.The Ossa is claimed to be cleaner that the four strokes and I dont find it hard to believe because the latest injected two stroke snowmobiles and pwc's are cleaner than four strokes.
If the emmissions solution was cheap and easy an oem manufacturer would be doing it already. But sadly it's got nothing to do with special coatings and direct injecting a two stroke is hard to get right (v-due disaster)
But at the end of the day whether you ride a dirty two stroke or a clean on for a few hours on the weekend isn't going to make any difference. Towing your bike to where you ride with a fuel efficient car vs a big old F100 would probably have the same effect.
Post by: msmola2002 on August 21, 2012, 06:35:03 PM
Post by: Jeram on August 21, 2012, 11:02:10 PM
Post by: dogger315 on March 04, 2013, 06:04:47 PM
Quote
But if you allow the part to cool normally and then cryo treat it, it does zip/nada/nil/nothing etc
I won't bore you with too much science, but I like to verify claims before I make them. Before i bought into the
Cryo-REM process, I took some samples to work and tested them. First up was a stock Honda transmission gear.
I performed a hardness test using a Brinell tester and came up with a value of 364 HB which roughly corresponds
to hardened 4340 low alloy steel. So now I knew what the gears were made of and had a baseline for comparison.
Next part was the same kind of gear that had been treated to DCT subsequent to manufacturer. This gear tested
384 HB, a 5.5% increase in hardness over the stock gear. That's a significant amount. I also examined the gears
using the Xray diffraction 6 line method and discovered a marked reduction in austenite in the DCT gear. This
suggest the metal was changed at the molecular level - so much for "zip/nada/etc". Oh and by the way, as should
be the case with any experiment, I tested a half dozen different gears - treated and untreated, to minimize
production variations effects on my results. So the numbers I posted are averages.
I'm guessing from your comments you are a machinist and your experience with this process (if any), is confined
to SCT (shallow cryogenic treatment). The difference between that and DCT (deep cryogenic treatment), are
significant. With SCT, a part is cooled to 193K, removed and simply allowed to warm to room temperature. With
DCT, the part is cooled all the way down to 77K, kept at that temperature for a lengthy time and then warmed up
slowly using a controlled schedule.
dogger
Post by: 2T Institute on March 04, 2013, 09:43:14 PM
Cryo treated any parts including whole engines at once and yet to find any increase of HP on the dyno or reduction in lap times. Some pistons showed a mild increase in service life is all I have ever found.
Post by: _X_ on March 04, 2013, 09:44:58 PM
Post by: dogger315 on March 04, 2013, 11:09:11 PM
Quote
Hardness of a gear is pretty much irrelevantNonsense. The hardness/tensile strength of a steel is the only quantitative
measure of that material's resistance to plastic deformation. In what universe
is that irrelevant?
My original assertion was/is that Cryo-REM treatment strengthens the metal (it does)
and reduces friction (it does that too). I made no claims about increased HP (though
I suspect that's the case). What I do claim, is that Cryo-REM treatment lowers friction
and will increase the service life of my gearbox.
dogger