Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 09, 2012, 09:06:30 PM
The bikes there were the 125SX, 150SX and 250SX 2-strokes and the 250SX-F, 350SX-F and 450SX-F 4-strokes. You get a punch card and get to ride each bikes once. After you have ridden each bike you get a bonus ride on one bike you want a second ride on.
I switched back and fourth 2-stroke to 4-stroke to compare. Quick review: The 250F was easiest to ride (obviously) as it was least powerful with smooth 4-stroke powerband and fairly low weight. It did not have enough snap to it though and could use a little more power in the hills at Glen Helen. The 125 was awesome. It had the snap the 250F didn't have. Nothing beats the feal of a 2-stroke on the pipe. The 125 was super light and fun. The low power of the 125 made it easy to wring its neck without getting tired, but still had that 2-stroke snap. The 150 was like a peaky 125 actually. It had more power but was all top end. I am sure a head mod or pipe would fix that quickly to make it a hod rod 125. The 350F was my favorite 4-stroke. It had the power missing from the 250F but not too much that it wanted to kill you like the 450 and didn't have the 450's weight. The 450, like I said, was too much weight and power for me on a MX track. It would probably be fine in the desert.
Lastly the 250SX. This is the bike (and the 125) that I came to ride. I did my bonus ride on the 250SX as well. I figured as it is 13 years newer than my 380 it would be nearing it in power output but with the newer chassis and suspension. Well, I was disappointed. It was peaky, much like you would expect from a 125. it had considerably more power, but was still peaky. This is worse because you have to keep it in the powerband to go but with that much power on tap it wears you out. There is no lugging it or going easy. It is all or nothing.
In conclusion, nothing matches the 380 engine. It lugs down low like a ported 300 and pulls strong through the mid range to the top end. It has power everywhere. It blows a 450 away in shear power everywhere, yet has so much torque you can take it easy and lug it around. The 250SX felt down 5-10hp compared to the 380.
I bet a 200 would improve on the awesome 125 with more low end. The 300 is the best KTM (other than the 380) that I have ridden, plentiful power from bottom to top, just without monstorous amounts like the 380.
If you want an engine with loads of power everywhere that can out pull a 450F or even a 500F yet is tame and controlled when you want it, the 380 is that engine. So KTM just needs a new 380, but with the low vibrations and quiet idle of the new bikes. And DI of course.
Post by: Jeram on July 09, 2012, 11:03:33 PM
insert 380 motor...
=dream bike
those 380 motors have a lot of potential for more power too!
Post by: SachsGS on July 10, 2012, 05:42:58 AM
Post by: maicoman009 on July 10, 2012, 04:46:57 PM
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.Hey Sachs,Do you have any idea why I'm not seeing any of the 380 Maico's on Koestlers website or Maico Internationals site?? If I could afford another bike in the near future I would want a Maico 380 as opposed to a 320 or 500...
Post by: eprovenzano on July 10, 2012, 05:06:35 PM
So for now I just sit on them and make braap noises..
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 10, 2012, 05:20:02 PM
just buy a blown up katoom motor and chassis...
insert 380 motor...
=dream bike
those 380 motors have a lot of potential for more power too!
I would love that! There is a guy on KTMTalk that put a 380 motor in a 2011 350SX-F frame. Very beautiful bike!
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 10, 2012, 05:22:20 PM
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.
I do remember hearing that. I think with todays modern tech 350cc would be plenty. The 380 is really a 368cc bike. So with 15 more years of engineering a 350 should blow it away.
Post by: SachsGS on July 11, 2012, 01:04:55 AM
Post by: rookie on July 11, 2012, 01:13:31 AM
Post by: Jeram on July 11, 2012, 04:17:39 AM
I think Donny Elmer (FMF) once said 400cc is the perfect size for a 2T.I have a 380 Maico and it is very,very nice.
I do remember hearing that. I think with todays modern tech 350cc would be plenty. The 380 is really a 368cc bike. So with 15 more years of engineering a 350 should blow it away.
but remember since that bloke made that statement, chassis, suspension and tires have also improved.
so as the power increases, so does the capability to handle all those extra ponnies.
so the statement might still be true
Post by: Stusmoke on July 11, 2012, 09:12:50 AM
Lastly the 250SX. This is the bike (and the 125) that I came to ride. I did my bonus ride on the 250SX as well. I figured as it is 13 years newer than my 380 it would be nearing it in power output but with the newer chassis and suspension. Well, I was disappointed. It was peaky, much like you would expect from a 125. it had considerably more power, but was still peaky. This is worse because you have to keep it in the powerband to go but with that much power on tap it wears you out. There is no lugging it or going easy. It is all or nothing.
Sounds like they went the wrong way there. 250s are tiring enough to ride when they have good power everywhere, they've got bollocks power on tap. But one that was all top end? Silly. One of the biggest advantages a 450 has on a two stroke is being able to get to overrev in no time flat. But if you drop the ball on a peaky 250, you've got to take teh time to downshift and wait for the revs to get high again depending on how bit the mistake was. Don't get me wrong alot of the 250s had great bottom and mid for two strokes. But thats the thing, for two strokes. 450s not only have a massive power advantage but get to that massive power advantage ALOT quicker.
Add extremely tiring to the list of hardships and in a four stroke dominated world thats a bad thing unfortunately.
Post by: nom de guerre on July 11, 2012, 01:20:18 PM
Post by: yota on July 11, 2012, 05:25:26 PM
Post by: Jeram on July 12, 2012, 02:20:00 AM
Post by: Swimr2DaResQ on July 12, 2012, 09:48:39 AM
Post by: yota on July 12, 2012, 06:39:53 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 13, 2012, 01:48:02 AM
Post by: Larry63r on July 13, 2012, 03:40:40 AM
Post by: motoman356 on July 13, 2012, 09:26:52 PM
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 18, 2012, 11:12:22 PM
To those of you that like having power everywhere on the bigger bore bikes, which FYI I totally understand, nothing nothing nothing and then BLAM on a 250 motocrosser is... unpleasant. But my question is do you still like the idea of peaky power on a 125? and I mean peaky as opposed to a 450 for example. So that it will get you to the high rev ranges quickly enough. Just curios.
I don't mind top end 125s, but not super peaky. With a 125 you can take advantage of the top end power because it isn't overwhelmingly powerful. The 250 you ahve to work to keep it in the power AND work to control it. The 125 just takes effort to keep it in the power. But once in the power you can cruise without wearing out or feeling like it is ripping out if you accidentally twist the throttle on a bump. And that is why I think a 200 would be great.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 18, 2012, 11:16:53 PM
I have a 12 250sx and don't find it to be at all peaky. has fair low, great mid and nice over rev. of course I have it jetted right and put in the red power valve spring.
DAMN
That is one sick bike you have. Ohlins TTX shock and Showa A-Kit forks. That is killer.I would love to get more seat timeon the 250, especially off-road and not a MX track (I don't ride MX). I am sure playing with the powervalve adjuster and spring would help a lot. A $60 head mod would be great for the power. The best bet with a new bike would be a 300 kit.
Of course, this is the best part of 2-strokes. They are so damn versitile. Not happy with the power, you can get a port, pipe, head mod, reeds, powervalve spring, etc and tailor it exactly how you want.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 18, 2012, 11:20:43 PM
well of course the 250 cant be lugged like a 380. im gonna go on a limb also and say your 380 is a trail oriented bike which means the internal gears are meant for slower speeds and you have more than 100cc's on the 250. with any 250 though i would recommend even for MX to run a heavier flywheel though that way it slows the motor to get more torque
My 380 is the SX not EXC. And it is geared high for washes and fast roads since it gets to speed so quickly (it really needs a 6th). Thus it is geared too high for rocks, but it still lugs up anything. I do have a flywheel weight (exc weight). It is the extra 120cc.