Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: JohnN on March 28, 2010, 05:54:16 PM
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First up, a new video... this one shot and edited by David Brown, Amazing!
Project 250 Motocross (http://vimeo.com/10472310)
A few sponsors have agreed to help out with Project Two 50.
Falicon Crankshafts - will be building our crank, they have been in the crank business for 31 years and are the ones responsible for many of the factory motorcycle efforts in all disciplines of racing. These guys are hardcore!
http://www.faliconcranks.com/ (http://www.faliconcranks.com/)
If you guys have a need for crank work on your machine, please consider Falicon, and tell them that Project Two 50 sent you!
Next up is a company that really needs no introduction to most folks involved with motocross for any length of time, FMF Racing!
Whoo Hoo!!
This is hot off the presses and the details have not been ironed out yet, but FMF has agreed to help.
http://www.fmfracing.com/ (http://www.fmfracing.com/)
We are making some headway and just wanted to keep you guys up to date.
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John,that is excellent news.Seems thing are moving along nicely.
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JOhnnnnnnnn! You made my day! Best project ever! Totally dig the white 2!
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I still think the whole enterprise would be a lot more impressive if it were done on an '83 Maico. Obviously it would be far less practical than the modern YZ (especially with homologation, LOL!), but performance-wise the '83 was an animal, and can you IMAGINE the attention that we'd get if someone got, say, 15th at a major racing event on an old European air-cooled bike that 95% of the riders had never heard of? It'd be like showing up in the pits at a NASCAR race with a '69 Charger Daytona.
A man can dream, but it would be relatively easy without homologation rules.
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Thanks for the kudos guys! It means a lot!
JETZcorp... I know that you mean well... I agree that the old Maico's were awesome for that time... but they are just not up to snuff for Pro Racing. In so many ways! I know you don't like watercooling, but the old air-cooled bikes faded after 15 minutes and lost lots of power.
Maico were never well known for their brakes either, even at the time, they were considered the worst. Many people don't know this, but to go fast you need strong. powerful, fade resistant brakes... the old Maico brakes would fade if you sweat near them! LOL
Of course it's not just the homologation rules, but there is also a rule that the bikes can only be 5 or 6 years old.
There are tons of vintage races all over the country that these machines clean up on, but they would not be competitive at the Pro level. Sorry..
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Whoever said you have to keep the stock brakes? Don't we have a story on this very site of a guy running a disc-brake 490? Doesn't that story also mention that he thought the old bike handled better than a new one? I'm not going to try and argue that an old Maico is better across the board, but I think it's altogether too easy to think that bikes intrinsically get better as the years go by.
As for air-cooling, yes I'll admit it flat-out doesn't work as well. The last air-cooled KX125, which had practically no cooling fins at all to speak of (because half an ounce of weight was just that important, apparently), lost 20% of its power throughout the day, compared to a 9% reduction by water-pumping competitors. I don't have any data on how well a bike with sane air-cooling kept its power. Who knows.
I do think that if we ever get around to creating our own series to contest the AMA monopoly, we should get rid of the age restriction. I mean, the only reason that could possibly be in there is to keep some unbelievable pro from coming in with some "old turd" and laying the hammer down on the showroom material. If an old bike won't be competitive, let the riders try and learn the hard way. If by some chance it IS competitive, let the manufacturers sweat it out in the engineering software. A little innovation would be good for 'em.
Yay, my Monday rant is complete!
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What exactly is project two 50? is it a rider on a 250 2 stroke racing in the pro nationals this year? and who is the rider? i think this is an awesome idea, i'd just like to know a little more about it. after doing some research and switching back to a 2 stroke myself i can't see why anyone would think 4 strokes are better.
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Hi Kawi250 - welcome to the forum!
Project Two 50 is just as you thought a 250cc two-stroke competing against 450 four-strokes in the AMA Pro Nationals. The racer's name is Mike Leavitt, who besides being a very fast racer is a great guy to talk to about motocross. If you like you can read more about it on the web site www.projecttwo50.com (http://www.projecttwo50.com)
Okay JETZcorp I understand now... you do have some points... personally I think that the production rule really hurt the industry as a whole. But that's just me!
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If you want to go C2H6O2 Cooling, you can always bump up to a 84-86 MStar/Maico 250, essentially same thing as the 83 engine.
(http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic-bikes-2/maico-250-gme.jpg)
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There's a 1983 Maico 490 for sale.
Seattle - 1983 Maico 490 For Sale (http://www.maicowerk.com/About/Jokes/FunnyAds/27KMaico/)
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wow i'm really into this project! and i've got a few more questions if anyone can help me out. It says he's from the north east, does anyone know exactly where? im from mass and would love to ride an indoor complex like the one featured in a video on the site. I've heard of one in bellingham mass but anyways yea wheres he from?
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I believe that is Mototown in Conneticut.
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Hey Kawi250, Mike Leavitt and I are from New York. We were tired of the hype surrounding the four-stroke and decided to jump on board this project.
Please feel free to ask questions here or you can PM me directly. Or use the contact form on the main TSM site (www.twostrokemotocross.com (http://www.twostrokemotocross.com)) and the Project Two 50 (www.projecttwo50.com (http://www.projecttwo50.com))
The track is at MotoTown in Connecticut, this link will get you the address,
http://www.riderplanet-usa.com/atv/trails/info/connecticut_11419/ride_f4af.htm (http://www.riderplanet-usa.com/atv/trails/info/connecticut_11419/ride_f4af.htm)
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There's a 1983 Maico 490 for sale.
Seattle - 1983 Maico 490 For Sale (http://www.maicowerk.com/About/Jokes/FunnyAds/27KMaico/)
LOL @ the ads... Very similar to how people keep going on about the 490 on here...
Quick question, why is everyone all over the Maico 490's nuts on this forum? It seems every other post goes on about the Maico 490 and how it's the end all be all and should be racing 450s, etc... It's a 26+ year old bike with suspension more akin to that found on wooden wagons used in the old west.
I'm far more interested in their NEW offerings, and far less interested in seeing the Maico 490 thrown into every thread just to add noise... JMHO.
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There's a 1983 Maico 490 for sale.
Seattle - 1983 Maico 490 For Sale (http://www.maicowerk.com/About/Jokes/FunnyAds/27KMaico/)
LOL @ the ads... Very similar to how people keep going on about the 490 on here...
Quick question, why is everyone all over the Maico 490's nuts on this forum? It seems every other post goes on about the Maico 490 and how it's the end all be all and should be racing 450s, etc... It's a 26+ year old bike with suspension more akin to that found on wooden wagons used in the old west.
I'm far more interested in their NEW offerings, and far less interested in seeing the Maico 490 thrown into every thread just to add noise... JMHO.
i tend to agree with you and i have a '81 490. no offence to Jetzcorp as his love for old bikes runs deep but vintage bikes are generally best remembered fondly than actually ridden after being on modern stuff.
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Suspension from wooden wagons? Funny, I never noticed the 490 ran on leaf-springs. I was under the impression that it had 12" of travel and shocks made by the same Italians who worked the Ferraris back then. Does it have better suspension than a new bike? No, of course not, especially considering that it was designed to take rough tracks, and not jumpy tracks. I still maintain that today's bikes would have serious trouble on a 1981 track, just as a brand new Le Mans car would get its ass kicked by a 1970s Porsche 917 if they ran the old circuit. They don't do no 240mph anymore.
But anyway, the reason people bring up the 490 all the time is the simple fact that it was a world-shaker. Everyone thought that 400-450cc was all that anyone could ever use in the 500cc class. When Yamaha brought out the 465 and slightly up-staged the 440 Maico, the response was typically German. They took that bad boy in to the shop, bored it out a little, made the frame look less like a banana, and hit the races like a nuclear weapon. You have to realize, this thing was SO popular, that it out-sold every all the Big-Four's dirt-bikes combined. And then, as if that weren't enough, they gave it another 6 ponies the next year, all the while maintaining the best handling in the bidness. It is a legend, and became the yardstick by which all bikes since are measured.
That, simply, is why people keep wanting to measure new bikes by the 490 yardstick.
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Suspension from wooden wagons? Funny, I never noticed the 490 ran on leaf-springs. I was under the impression that it had 12" of travel and shocks made by the same Italians who worked the Ferraris back then. Does it have better suspension than a new bike? No, of course not, especially considering that it was designed to take rough tracks, and not jumpy tracks. I still maintain that today's bikes would have serious trouble on a 1981 track, just as a brand new Le Mans car would get its ass kicked by a 1970s Porsche 917 if they ran the old circuit. They don't do no 240mph anymore.
But anyway, the reason people bring up the 490 all the time is the simple fact that it was a world-shaker. Everyone thought that 400-450cc was all that anyone could ever use in the 500cc class. When Yamaha brought out the 465 and slightly up-staged the 440 Maico, the response was typically German. They took that bad boy in to the shop, bored it out a little, made the frame look less like a banana, and hit the races like a nuclear weapon. You have to realize, this thing was SO popular, that it out-sold every all the Big-Four's dirt-bikes combined. And then, as if that weren't enough, they gave it another 6 ponies the next year, all the while maintaining the best handling in the bidness. It is a legend, and became the yardstick by which all bikes since are measured.
That, simply, is why people keep wanting to measure new bikes by the 490 yardstick.
Yes, compared to modern suspensions. (Take analogies a bit too literal much?).
Who does this measuring? I have yet to see any serious (read: any) review look back to the 490 as a yardstick in which all bikes must measure up to in some aspect. It might have been something to compare to back in the early 80s, but that time has come and gone. Also, I honestly doubt moden bikes would have much to worry about against the older bikes (on newer or older style MX tracks). If that were the case vintage bikes would dominate the local scenes, or even the open classes (of which only the CR500 really carries the "vintage" motor into any victories...). The CR500s (mostly AFs) dominate the open classes here, don't see much of the 490 at all except in the vintage races and even then they don't mop up the competition.
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The reason a vintage bike like a 490 doesn't dominate the local scene is multi-layered. First, you're not allowed to compete with it, because the 500cc class is mostly gone, and old 250s are at a genuine disadvantage on new tracks. But when you do get into 500cc competition, you say it's dominated by new AF bikes, and the reason for that is very similar to the reason that some riders still choose a 250F when they could have a 250 2T in the same class. The AF bikes are new, flashy, and covered with pointy plastic bits. Let's say, hypothetically, you show up with an old bike that's identical in performance to new bikes (and I must stress this is a hypothetical). You still have a disincentive to do this, because you'll be so far outside of the crowd. It'd be like showing up with an off-brand bike. "What the hell's wrong with this idiot?" The CR500AF conforms to the crowd with all the trendy things that don't mean much, such as bold new graphics, aluminum frame, upside-down forks, and the all-important bold new graphics. The biggest advantage it has are the disc brakes, and it's been shown on TSM that there's nothing keeping a man from putting those on his 490. Water cooling can be had if you're willing to get an '84 M-Star, and monoshock is available from '82 onward. And I'm still curious to know precisely HOW the Maico suspension is inferior, besides the classic new = better assumption. I'm perfectly open to someone with in-depth suspension knowledge showing that true progress has been made, but it has to be backed up. And in terms of the motor, I haven't heard anybody who's ridden both bikes and thought a CR500 had a better motor. When a magazine compared the brand new (at the time) '91 CR500 to the '81 Maico, they flat-out said the Maico had more usable power.
Of course, even the best bike in the world doesn't guarantee victory; it takes a good rider. Here in the northwest, there are tons of 490s that compete in evolution, and few of them make a spectacular showing. Few of them ever have proper, "elbows-up" riders, either. The one guy who did know what he was doing, though, wiped everyone out. No one touched his lap time.
Sorry, John, for taking this so far off-topic. But I'm having fun!
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MAICO - RIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2RW_akJvi0#ws)
I've ridden newer bikes, some of the suspenion is rather awkard really, kinda like riding on stilts. They make the bikes completely flat on top like a table, feels like you're going to go over the handle bars, then going over bumps it's like you are all over the place. Maybe not all bikes are like that but some are.
And all the new bikes, aside from the new Maico, look like utter shit. I'd never own one just because they don't have any kind of feel to them (with exception to the new Maico). I don't even find them flashy, I find them quite dull and the same. They all look like they were cloned out of the same mold and are ugly as hell. They have to put tons of stickers on them to make them look good at all. And sorry but AF frames look like utter crap to me, I hate that ugly ass piece of frame on the side.
Looking back at the older bikes, those bikes looked AWESOME. I mean the old huskies? The old Maicos? The old Hondas? The 80s Hondas were actually some of the best looking bikes! Then in the 90s, they said skrew it, here's some crappy ass looking machinery. They all lost character.
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C'mon guys we are all friends here !!!!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D
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Hey thanks a lot john and il try to check out the projects website and see if you guys have any shirts or something i can wear to southwick to support you guys.
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Holy balls, there's a strong response for you. :)
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John we need more videos like that!! :P
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Wow.. yet another thread turned into an old time Maico thread.... Sheesh!! Don't get me wrong, I love Maico's but what does comparing an old Maico have to do with Project Two 50??
If you want to ride an old bike, more power to you!! There are tons of resources and race series devoted to such things...
In the mean time, Project Two 50 continues it's march forward!!
Boyesen and Twin Air have signed on to help out!! Whoo Hooo!!!
We'll have shirts and stuff available soon... we're just gathering up all of our sponsors, so that we can add there logos to the shirts and stuff!!
We're working on a title sponsor for our team as we speak...
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Man, with FMF and Boyesen, this is turning into a really powerful two-stroke movement. Those are some of THE big names in all of two-strokedom. Sorry about all the Maico stuff, I guess a passing comment kinda spiralled out of control. May there be no mistake, I'm very bullish about the prospects of the project!
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yalza.........yalza.........yalza.........I just saw the schedule for project two 50 and it swings by my local :D
Long time listner, first time caller.
My name is Todd and I ride two strokes
eh er did :( , and will again as soon as I am able to :D
We will be going to the June 5th â?? Freestone race at Wortham.
My daughter I went last year to Wortham and had an excellent time.
A big Howdy from Tejas, two stroke brothers & sisters :D
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Welcome aboard TxTech!You just entered the best site in the bus.
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yalza.........yalza.........yalza.........I just saw the schedule for project two 50 and it swings by my local :D
Long time listner, first time caller.
My name is Todd and I ride two strokes
eh er did :( , and will again as soon as I am able to :D
We will be going to the June 5th â?? Freestone race at Wortham.
My daughter I went last year to Wortham and had an excellent time.
A big Howdy from Tejas, two stroke brothers & sisters :D
Welcome to the forum!!
Make sure you come by our rig and introduce yourself. Stop by and shoot the two-stroke stories.. We'll do our best to make sure that everyone can find us.
Of course as soon as we start our machine, everyone will know! 8) 8)
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Thanks for the welcomes and the invitation to come by the rig, we'll do. :D
Is there an official T-shirt with race dates, twostrokemotocross.com, our racer's number, with sponsers
on the front or back, baarrppppp? We will also need a bumper sticker too.
Will you have any of these shirts for sale on-line or at the rig?
I saw the preliminary design for the rig on the website and it looks great, will the rig have a giant flag to be spotted by from a distance?
Anybody else here from the Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas area going to Wortham? Maybe we could car pool or meet up and convoy/journey to the race together?
It was hot as he11 last year so bring your water & ice chests and shade tents and lawn chairs, ball caps & sunscreen. There were specific times to get into the pit area by purchase of pit pass. I took lots of pictures last year and now I have a better reason to take pictures, baaarrpppppp baarrrppppppp
Anybody wanting to go send me an email shout out, I can also give some other information on what we encountered last year if anyone is interested. As you can tell I am excited to see this movement, all my 4-slow riding buddies give me such a hard time over my little 2t, except when I blow by them. Then later the excuses flow. :D
You guys probably know all this information, just thought I would throw it out for thought.
Todd
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TxTechRedRider - we are working on many details as we speak. You can not believe how much goes into something like this!!
We are still working on securing sponsors as we speak. It's really difficult to create swag without those folks in place.
Thank you for the compliments... they are greatly appreciated!