Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 01:43:35 AM
Now that the disclaimer is over with, I'll start off: For me its kind of a toss up between how much easier (Not easy, EASIER) they make the sport and the cost of repairs. Its like putting ABS brakes and fully automatic transmission in Nascar.
What do I love the most about two strokes? Thats a hard one. Probably the absolute thrill of riding them and just flinging them around like a ragdoll.
Again: Don't just go hating and spewing a whole heap of four stroke abuse...
Have fun, looking forward to replies
Post by: beaner on June 17, 2012, 01:49:53 AM
2 stroke like, ease of maintenance, premix, hit.
Post by: nom de guerre on June 17, 2012, 01:54:11 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 02:07:17 AM
The noise of a four stroke is a pretty bad thing really... I was getting a massage around 5 clicks (kilometres) from the local track on a THURSDAY practise day. There were litterally like 3 people out there. I could hear those foopers clear as day. FFFTTTTHHLLLLLOOOOPPPPP chug chug chug FLLLLOOOOOPTTH. Horrible... But mainly the cost of the sods. if I had to choose three it would probably be cost, weight, and the how lazy they've made the sport.
But two strokes... Oh how I love the RIIING Ding ding ding RIING of a warm up. I love that I can sit my bike back up when my knee is scraping on the ground with just a crack of the throttle and a bit of physical help. The ease of maintenance is awesome too. so easy for a top end.
Post by: nom de guerre on June 17, 2012, 02:12:50 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 02:19:19 AM
Post by: snook620 on June 17, 2012, 02:35:19 AM
* putting it on the stand
* starting it after a crash late in the moto
* more technical to replace the top end
* price for aftermarket exhaust
* tears up rear tires
* doesnt sound as cool
-What I like about a 2 stroke mx'er-
* cheap
* easy to work on
* low weight
* sounds awesome
Post by: rookie on June 17, 2012, 04:55:44 AM
if someone willing to sponsor me to ride a thumper
without paying a cent to maintain it, i will take it!
Post by: twosmoke595 on June 17, 2012, 05:21:43 AM
4 stroke
Love:
1. Very easy to ride
2. They've advanced metallurgy to make 2 stroke even lighter/more powerful, also the carbon fiber/titanium stuff looks wicked
3. they make great pit bikes, you cant tell me that having a bunch of guys on 50's banging into each other at 10 miles an hour an cutting each other off isn't one of the funnest things in the world
Hate:
1. i HATE the gyro effect when trying to lay one over, there's just something about it i cannot get over, like when you let off it wants to stand up on you and lurch you forward bc of the engine braking
2. The price of repairs, although it can be argued for days on end, oem parts for oem parts a 4 stroke is more expensive, and i'm not exactly rolling in money, but i can say that if you paid me to ride one, and paid for all maintenance i'd probably ride one. But only if i was allowed to have a practice bike that was a 2 stroke
3. its a toss up between the noise, the hard to start when hot, the ego that comes with it when somebody has a 4 stroke and that they look down to you because you have a 2 stroke
2 stroke
Love:
1. my favorite thing is showing up to the track and people scoffing at my 125 until i pull up next to them on the track and if not beat them, go toe to toe with them. it doesn't take a 450 to go fast, even better is when i holeshot bigger bikes/pass bigger bikes on the track on my 125, im just like
2. the smell of premix, its my first memory of riding when i was little, it just takes me back to walking into the supercross stadium with my dad and seeing that blue haze over the track, also 4 stroke race gas gives me a headache
3. the power/flickability/lightness/handling is about equal, its just so effortless and enjoyable, having complete control of where you want to go at all times. the power its just so much fun, and for most of us, fun is the only reason why we got into this sport to begin with, i find it truly enjoyable to wring the neck of a 125, having to control the wheelspin of a 250, feeling the electric power of a kdx200, and not getting out of 3rd gear on a 500, just so much fun every bit of it.
Hate:
1. hate having to defend why i ride a 2 stroke to ignorant and/or stupid people at the track, like premixed said, people are just stupid
2. traction on hard packed dirt, its not that bad really, but sometimes it can get frustrating when you're trying really hard and you just aren't feeling it that day or whatever the case may be, the wheel spin is more of a frustration than a hate, but then again it does make you ride the track more and find better lines
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean
that's it, some of my stuff may be a little trivial, but that's my list, i enjoy riding dirtbikes no matter what it is, but if i have a choice and i do (we aint no communse) i'd ride a 2 stroke, because they're lighter/more fun/quieter/ less expensive and allow me to do what i love more often than a 4 stroke would
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 06:16:59 AM
My top 3 love/hate on 4 stroke and 2
4 stroke
Love:
1. Very easy to ride
2. They've advanced metallurgy to make 2 stroke even lighter/more powerful, also the carbon fiber/titanium stuff looks wicked
3. they make great pit bikes, you cant tell me that having a bunch of guys on 50's banging into each other at 10 miles an hour an cutting each other off isn't one of the funnest things in the world
Hate:
1. i HATE the gyro effect when trying to lay one over, there's just something about it i cannot get over, like when you let off it wants to stand up on you and lurch you forward bc of the engine braking
2. The price of repairs, although it can be argued for days on end, oem parts for oem parts a 4 stroke is more expensive, and i'm not exactly rolling in money, but i can say that if you paid me to ride one, and paid for all maintenance i'd probably ride one. But only if i was allowed to have a practice bike that was a 2 stroke
3. its a toss up between the noise, the hard to start when hot, the ego that comes with it when somebody has a 4 stroke and that they look down to you because you have a 2 stroke
2 stroke
Love:
1. my favorite thing is showing up to the track and people scoffing at my 125 until i pull up next to them on the track and if not beat them, go toe to toe with them. it doesn't take a 450 to go fast, even better is when i holeshot bigger bikes/pass bigger bikes on the track on my 125, im just like
2. the smell of premix, its my first memory of riding when i was little, it just takes me back to walking into the supercross stadium with my dad and seeing that blue haze over the track, also 4 stroke race gas gives me a headache
3. the power/flickability/lightness/handling is about equal, its just so effortless and enjoyable, having complete control of where you want to go at all times. the power its just so much fun, and for most of us, fun is the only reason why we got into this sport to begin with, i find it truly enjoyable to wring the neck of a 125, having to control the wheelspin of a 250, feeling the electric power of a kdx200, and not getting out of 3rd gear on a 500, just so much fun every bit of it.
Hate:
1. hate having to defend why i ride a 2 stroke to ignorant and/or stupid people at the track, like premixed said, people are just stupid
2. traction on hard packed dirt, its not that bad really, but sometimes it can get frustrating when you're trying really hard and you just aren't feeling it that day or whatever the case may be, the wheel spin is more of a frustration than a hate, but then again it does make you ride the track more and find better lines
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean
that's it, some of my stuff may be a little trivial, but that's my list, i enjoy riding dirtbikes no matter what it is, but if i have a choice and i do (we aint no communse) i'd ride a 2 stroke, because they're lighter/more fun/quieter/ less expensive and allow me to do what i love more often than a 4 stroke would
Well said man. I've never had someone have a go at my smoker... When I do start racing next year II'm buying in a crap load of TSM stickers and hopefully a big banner that I can put on my ute. Also, I'll have a recording playing around my truck: "If you're gonna have a go at my bike, this is my response: Lighter, cheaper, faster, better handling, better sound, quieter, better smelling, better looking, more fun to ride, harder to ride, explosive powerband, better jumpers, better through the whoops, I think I'll stick with my two stroke." I'll just put that on a loop. I wonder if Kayne West would be willing to do a two stroke remix to harder better faster stronger; Cheaper, more fun, faster, lighter. Or a remix to linkin park's bleed it out; I scream it out twist it further just to blow them away.
I don't think Hating having to defend yourself from ignorant fools is a fault of the bike though, its a fault of human society
Anyway keep it coming guys.
Post by: factoryX on June 17, 2012, 07:19:41 AM
1. Four strokes had to have a displacement handicap just to compete with two strokes(150 in the 85 class, 250 in the 125 class, 450 in the 250 class)
2. There is no 125 class anymore.
3. AMA redid the homologation rule just to allow the 5 brands of bikes.
4. AMA has rearranged tracks in favor of four stroke power characteristics..
5. AMA has had nothing but positive comments for four strokes, and yet whenever two strokes are mentioned we are immediately informed on how inferior they are.
6. AMA will do everything in their power to not give two strokes any media coverage, unless it is commenting on how inferior they are.
7. 4 strokes have had a costly upbringing just to be able to be competitive. There was a comment on an article mentioning the fact that Honda was spending close to $500,000,000 yearly just on GP racing, Yamaha something like $400,000,000. 500 mill times 12, and that tells you why they have blatantly shoved four strokes onto the public.
8. The average Joe cannot work on his/her own bike let alone do the required maintenance just to keep the bike reliable, and yet four strokes are still being pushed on public.
9. Noise pollution is picking up awareness, and currently shutting down riding areas and tracks. 4 strokes were never quiet bikes, good luck getting one under 99db and keep the performance up.
10. Costly R&D on 4 strokes has aided in bringing the prices up on dirt bikes in general, there for limiting the field of buyers.
11. By dumbing down the public, people are no longer concerned with doing research on the bike they are about to purchase, specifically things like brakes, suspension, upkeep, costs, etc..
12. Two strokes are successful everywhere else except Major Media covered events.
13. Two stroke EFI has shown more efficiency than their four stroke counterparts.
14. By increasing weight and power, they have made motocross even less safe than it was. This is not a positive image to maintain, especially with Nanny governments threatening to ban youths from riding permanently.
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 07:25:43 AM
Something I posted earlier in the year.
1. Four strokes had to have a displacement handicap just to compete with two strokes(150 in the 85 class, 250 in the 125 class, 450 in the 250 class)
2. There is no 125 class anymore.
3. AMA redid the homologation rule just to allow the 5 brands of bikes.
4. AMA has rearranged tracks in favor of four stroke power characteristics..
5. AMA has had nothing but positive comments for four strokes, and yet whenever two strokes are mentioned we are immediately informed on how inferior they are.
6. AMA will do everything in their power to not give two strokes any media coverage, unless it is commenting on how inferior they are.
7. 4 strokes have had a costly upbringing just to be able to be competitive. There was a comment on an article mentioning the fact that Honda was spending close to $500,000,000 yearly just on GP racing, Yamaha something like $400,000,000. 500 mill times 12, and that tells you why they have blatantly shoved four strokes onto the public.
8. The average Joe cannot work on his/her own bike let alone do the required maintenance just to keep the bike reliable, and yet four strokes are still being pushed on public.
9. Noise pollution is picking up awareness, and currently shutting down riding areas and tracks. 4 strokes were never quiet bikes, good luck getting one under 99db and keep the performance up.
10. Costly R&D on 4 strokes has aided in bringing the prices up on dirt bikes in general, there for limiting the field of buyers.
11. By dumbing down the public, people are no longer concerned with doing research on the bike they are about to purchase, specifically things like brakes, suspension, upkeep, costs, etc..
12. Two strokes are successful everywhere else except Major Media covered events.
13. Two stroke EFI has shown more efficiency than their four stroke counterparts.
14. By increasing weight and power, they have made motocross even less safe than it was. This is not a positive image to maintain, especially with Nanny governments threatening to ban youths from riding permanently.
Hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything there. Especially the part about Making MX even less safe than it was. And the worst thing is we can't educate the people that don't want to hear it because we can't get past the massive solid wall of money the AMA has walled their four strokes up in
Post by: scotty dog on June 17, 2012, 10:53:28 AM
The gyro effect when trying to lay one over in a corner! It doesnt happen, it just wants to stand up n go straight.
The price for parts.
The noise.
Having to check valves.
Compression braking!! Never got used to it, both 4's i had i tried to ride like two strokes, it didnt work, old habits are hard to break.
The only thing good about 4strokes is doin wheelies! The smooth power makes it easy.
I Love my 2 stroke
only thing i dont really like about em is when ya drop it when ya goonin bein a show off and dent ya brand new PC pipe!!
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 11:14:03 AM
Dislike about 4 strokes:
The gyro effect when trying to lay one over in a corner! It doesnt happen, it just wants to stand up n go straight.
The price for parts.
The noise.
Having to check valves.
Compression braking!! Never got used to it, both 4's i had i tried to ride like two strokes, it didnt work, old habits are hard to break.
The only thing good about 4strokes is doin wheelies! The smooth power makes it easy.
I Love my 2 stroke
only thing i dont really like about em is when ya drop it when ya goonin bein a show off and dent ya brand new PC pipe!!
Thats a good thought scotty. I had never considered that as a con for two strokes. The expansion chambers are very exposed. Well I mean I had realised that before but I'd never thought of it in respect to the cons of a two stroke. Although those Ossas with the pipe under the seat are clever. We need to hear daosplace personal review on that bike
Post by: scotty dog on June 17, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 17, 2012, 12:04:46 PM
Post by: nom de guerre on June 17, 2012, 12:59:15 PM
Post by: SachsGS on June 17, 2012, 02:57:26 PM
Post by: eprovenzano on June 17, 2012, 06:43:23 PM
Yes I know his valves need adjusted, and yes his idle was too low. I did raise the idle which seemed to help, but I'll stick to smokers...
Edit: I wanted to add, I hate the strokers engine braking... I was helping adjust the 250F, and just putting around, I hated the engine braking. I think the engine breaking would really hinder my riding style.
Post by: chump6784 on June 17, 2012, 08:00:55 PM
2) Noise - right now my local track is either being shut down due to noise or being made a juniors only track, ie. no 450's. They are bloody loud and no good for anything.
3) boring powerband - if i could ride a PC 250f i think that would probably be my ultimate bike if i didnt have to pay for the maintenance. a stock 250f with an extra 5 hp on top would be a weapon in any riders hands, as shown by the lap times of the 250f's versus the 450's. But i am not a pro and no one will give me a bike so i gotta pay for it and there is no way in hell i would own a 45 hp 250f
Do agree with dinting the new PC pipe. 3rd corner after putting it on i laid the bike over and just managed to keep it from pressing the pipe. that was my biggest concern for the whole day
Post by: bearorso on June 18, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
Only the rules that give them the capacity advantage.
A good bike, set up by me, for me, will be a good bike, for me. I can do that with any type of engined bike.
But, I choose, currently, and for my long term, foreseeable future, to own, set up, and ride 2ts.
I want simplicity, and affordability in my riding. I've no need to go towards expense and complication to be competitive in any form of MX, or Off Road racing, nowadays.
I'm happy just to get to ride - and I want it to be as much riding as possible, with far less preventative maintenance for me to perform. = big capacity 2t.
Post by: KXwestYZ on June 18, 2012, 10:49:13 PM
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean
====================================
hhaa yeah I always have the exact same problem on my 2000 KX 250 i got all sorts of crap advice, try truck wash blah blah. you know what get WHITE SPIRIT its cheap and cuts through that stuff like a hot knife through butter like you wouldnt beleive... just saw your post and thought id help
Post by: Stusmoke on June 19, 2012, 01:24:43 AM
3. not even really a hate, but the black spooge that sometimes blubbers out the silencer or where the expansion chamber and silencer meet is kind of annoying, especially on a dusty day dirt + oil spooge on swingarm/shock/break line gets annoying and is kinda hard to clean
====================================
hhaa yeah I always have the exact same problem on my 2000 KX 250 i got all sorts of crap advice, try truck wash blah blah. you know what get WHITE SPIRIT its cheap and cuts through that stuff like a hot knife through butter like you wouldnt beleive... just saw your post and thought id help
Sacralige to waste alcohol. if it is even alcohol. I have the same problems. turpentine cuts through mine pretty easily
Post by: blakers213 on June 19, 2012, 01:30:28 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 19, 2012, 01:40:45 AM
I was the same though. Except my engine really did grenade. But I was always slower on the fooper, too heavy and fat.