Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: MXLord327 on March 24, 2010, 05:26:36 AM
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Just saw this on the MXA site, scroll down to the "Post Dallas Rumor Mongering" paragraph.
http://motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=3E4A63515945494884 (http://motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=3E4A63515945494884)
3B924D7D308DC3
Sad........
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I'm going to try to fix the link you have (it's not working!) but have copied and pasted the part that pertains to the Nationals below.
ARE THE 2010 NATIONALS IN TROUBLE?
As shocking as it sounds, with less than sixty days to go until the first round of the AMA National kick-off at Hangtown, it sounds like there is at least a 50/50 chance that the first two rounds (plus round #9 at Washougal) might not run. The source of the rumors has been factory team managers (who have been telling everyone the rumor--which, you must assume, they get from the sanctioning body).
Crazy, unbelievable, frightening, but true! As of the Dallas Supercross, the race promoters of Hangtown, Glen Helen and Washougal are all at steep odds with MX Sports over accountability, contract length, rights, back gate ticket sales and just about anything else you can think of. Right now it's apparently in the hands of the lawyers. And according to reports, the tracks and sanctioning body aren't budging. How scary is that? The people who really know (and that includes MXA's Jody Weisel and MX Sports' Davey Coombs) aren't talking.
Word on the street is that as an alternative to the hilly Glen Helen round, MX Sports is considering running at the National at the flat Pala Raceway near Rainbow, California. No other optional venues for rounds # 1 and 9 have been mentioned.
Speaking of venue changes, last season's talk of the U.S. Open Supercross going away completely has been altered and now there's talk of it simply moving to the same Sam Boyd stadium where the final round of the AMA/Monster Energy series is currently held.
And yeah, we also heard that Mike Alessi has split from KTM, but no real word on that one.
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Additional News.....
Taken from motocrossactionmag.com:
Dear MXA,
I have heard all the rumors and I know that Jody knows the answers to all the question about the Glen Helen National. Will There be a Glen Helen National this year?
We sent your question to Jody. Here is his reply:
??No. Glen Helen will not host a National in 2010. It had nothing to do with the track, facilities or event??it was all about whether or not Glen Helen wanted to do business with MXSports any more. My guess is that they didn't. I am in no way a part of the Glen Helen management, and I had no part in the negotiations, but I do know from my personal experience (building the track for the last 15 years) that fighting with officials who want shorter motos, under two-minute lap times, timed qualifying and graded racetracks does get a little tiring after the first 100 battles. Glen Helen stayed rough, rugged and tough in spite of MXSports...and the interpersonal relationships suffered with every argument."
Jody did include the official statement from Glen Helen Raceway announcing their intentions not to do business with MXSports.
2010 GLEN HELEN NATIONAL: OFFICIAL STATEMENT
Glen Helen Raceway regretfully announces that it will not host Round two of AMA 250/450 Nationals on May 29, 2010.
There has been long negotiations between MX Sports and Glen Helen Raceway in regards to the event. As a previous host of more than 14 AMA Nationals and three GP??s over the last 20 years, Glen Helen has proven to be a world class venue (and so do the fans who have flooded the gates in large numbers over the years).
From the beginning of the most recent contract negotiations, Glen Helen has asked for the same contractual terms as other tracks on the National circuit received in 2010. Due to the lack of equality in the terms, Glen Helen is unable to move forward with a National at this time.
The National Promoter??s Group (NPG) was formed 15 years ago to set the standard for motocross in America. As a charter member, Glen Helen has stood together with the other promoters for the entire 15-year period. We feel that our contributions to the promotion of the sport were integral to the progress that has been made in motocross. When MX Sports took over the organizing role from DMG/AMA Pro Racing last year, they dissolved the NPG (an organization that they were instrumental in starting). As the new sanctioning body, MX Sports no longer wants to abide by the NPG contracts they helped write. Many of the points in the contracts were designed to give the promoters a fair shake from the AMA sanctioning body??thus, Glen Helen attempted to negotiate a fair deal to no avail.
Glen Helen supports all the teams, riders, sponsors and other National promoters 100 percent and we are sorry that the fans who planned to come to Glen Helen to see ??Real Motocross? will not get the chance to do it this year.
Glen Helen will still be hosting events every weekend and will give fans, riders and sponsors a venue that they can be proud to be part of. We have a pre-National event on May 16, 2010 with the MTA World MX Championships, which will give fans a first look at the outdoor teams for 2010. A large Pro purse will be included. More details to follow.
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Strangely, this post came from Davey Coombs on Vital MX... BEFORE the above statement.... This was in response to a post similar to the one at the top of the page. Kind of makes you go hmmmmm.
That's honestly ridiculous, WORCSracer. Someone is out there spreading some doom and gloom... The only real issues are over length of contract extension and some general improvements with one facility; hopefully it will be resolved soon.
MX Sports is fully committed to motocross on the west coast and specifically in Southern California. See you May 22 at Hangtown.
DC
MX Sports
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See you May 22 at Hangtown.
I guess DC didn't get the word about no Hangtown either.
This situation is troubling to say the least.
dogger
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From my understanding the Hangtown and Washougal rounds were rumors. Do you have differing information?
By the way this is the Press Release from Davey and MX Sports;
MORGANTOWN, W.V. ?? MX Sports Pro Racing announced today the postponement of the Glen Helen round of the 2010 Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship, citing contractual differences with the promoter of the San Bernardino, Calif., facility. The second-round event, which was originally scheduled for Glen Helen Raceway on May 29, 2010, is now being slated for September 11.
??This was a difficult decision, but ultimately, we simply were not able to come to contractual terms with Glen Helen Raceway,? said Davey Coombs, Vice President of MX Sports Pro Racing. ??By moving the date to September 11, we will have time to find a suitable venue. Riders, teams and fans are making travel plans now and we want them to feel secure that we will have an exceptional venue ready in Southern California. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this change.?
MX Sports Pro Racing does not intend to fill the date of May 29 and will opt to leave the remaining series dates intact, giving competitors and teams Memorial Day weekend off. Details for the September 11 event will be announced soon.
The revised 2010 Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship Schedule is:
Rd 1 May 22 Hangtown Classic Sacramento, CA
Rd 2 Jun 5 Freestone Raceway Wortham, TX
Rd 3 Jun 12 High Point Raceway Mt. Morris, PA
Rd 4 Jun 19 Budds Creek Motocross Mechanicsville, MD
Rd 5 Jun 26 Thunder Valley Motocross Lakewood, CO
Rd 6 Jul 3 RedBud Buchanan, MI
Rd 7 Jul 17 Spring Creek Motocross Millville, MN
Rd 8 Jul 24 Washougal MX Park Washougal, WA
Rd 9 Aug 14 Unadilla New Berlin, NY
Rd 10 Aug 28 Moto-X 338 Southwick, MA
Rd 11 Sept 4 Steel City Raceway Delmont, PA
Rd 12 Sep 11 TBA CA
Racing fans that have purchased advanced tickets or camping passes to this event should contact Glen Helen at www.glenhelen.com (http://www.glenhelen.com).
Please stay tuned to www.allisports.com (http://www.allisports.com) for updates and additional information on the series.
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The should hire Jody and let DC go. :P Glenn Helen is Motocross. Now we need a 2 stroke major event there!When AMA will ever learn? :o unfriggin unbelievable! Pro Racing is just a damn joke.
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If the Hammer & Tongs vintage race happened at Washougal, but the AMA National didn't, I would laugh so hard. With that said, it's still TBA on whether H&T is doing Washougal this year or not. Last year it was a little... uh... wet. It was only muddy the first day, but that's the day they do short-travel bikes, unfortunately.
"Mud Stuck" - Vintage Motocross. Hammer and Tongs Series. Washougal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWj1NLmDyQw#ws)
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Here is Jody's take on the situation from MXA Online.
MX SPORTS & THE GLEN HELEN NATIONAL DEBACLE:
THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY INVOLVED; IT WAS A BUSINESS DEAL THAT SOURED; BOTH SIDES HAVE THEIR POINTS; JODY TRIES TO MAKE SENSE OF IT
By Jody Weisel
Although many people have an urge to make the story about Glen Helen dropping off of the AMA National schedule into a classic tale of good and evil??it was for the most part a business deal that didn??t work out (and, yes, there were a lot of different points of disagreement that would have had to have been worked out).
Yet, in its simplest terms, Glen Helen wanted a long-term contract before they would commit to holding another National. You can??t blame them. It is a big investment, much larger than what the cellar dwellers on the internet could ever comprehend, and without a guarantee that he will be holding a race the following year, a promoter could lose his shirt if there was a rain storm, earthquake, tornado, wind event or other crowd killing catastrophe. If you don??t believe that, ask the promoters who held AMA Nationals in 2009 during major thunderstorms. There is even one East Coast National that failed to pay the money they owed on time.
As for facility upgrades at the track: Glen Helen has added immensely to its facility in the last few years; including a two-story sign-up building (that the AMA uses at the National); there are three separate permanent restrooms at Glen Helen (one in each of the towers and the original one near the starting gate, plus Glen Helen brings in 200 port-cans on race weekend and meets all the MX Sports requirements for water bibs and porta-cans in the pits), Glen Helen also built an elevated viewing platform, separate announcer??s tower and added a second paved road into the track from the back (which comes from a massive parking lot with free parking). Glen Helen also has eight acres of flat pits and a separate, air-conditioned building for timing and scoring. Glen Helen was also the only track to comply with MX Sports?? request to build a bike washing area for all the bikes at the National (after it was built, MX Sports said that since no one else built one that it wouldn??t be used). Glen Helen was also the only race track in the USA to donate to the Danny "Magoo" Chandler Van Fund. Did everyone forget that Glen Helen opened its pits up for free in 2009? Other tracks charged up to $20 for a pit pass! Glen Helen also has grandstands (and two years ago moved two sets of grandstands onto the track in an L-shape to improved viewing). Additionally, Glen Helen builds a new racetrack every year and fences it on both sides to allow the fans to get as close to the action as possible (this costs Glen Helen $50,000 and few if any tracks on the National circuit redesign their tracks every year).
What is true is that Glen Helen fought hard not to knuckle under to the AMA??s Steve Whitelock??s or MX Sports?? John Ayers?? ??smooth track? concept (and every AMA National track owner should continue to fight against this stupid idea). And although harsh words were spoken every year, especially last year when John Ayers, and John Ayers alone, decided to put a Monster Arch on the landing ramp of a jump, the track was not a factor in the contract talks. Davey Coombs said on Thursday, ??It had nothing to do with the track?? Jody builds a very dynamic, spectacular track, and I asked him before about building some more in the future. Losing the race course itself is the most regrettable part of this development.?
So, the real issues on the demise of Glen Helen??s National program really boiled down to the length of the contract. Many other AMA National tracks had four-year deals. Glen Helen only had a deal for 2010, with no guarantee for 2011 or beyond. With another SoCal racetrack telling everyone who would listen that they were getting the Glen Helen date in 2011, it became obvious to Glen Helen owner Dr. Bud Feldkamp that MX Sports had no intention of renewing the contract after May 29th, 2010. Thus, Glen Helen pushed for a long-term deal. As an AMA National and FIM Grand Prix track (and the track that donated its use to save what was left of the ill-fated Competition Park MXDN in San Jacinto; honoring every MXDN ticket and holding the World Cup event so that teams that were stranded in America could have a race), Glen Helen felt that being the only National on the circuit not to have a long-term contract was a slap in the face.
Davey Coombs said on Thursday, in answering an email, ??...for what it's worth, the one-year extension was the same one that a track in Pennsylvania got.? This is true, but actually false. MX Sports runs the track in Pennsylvania in question (Mt. Morris) and has already decided to drop Mt. Morris off the 2011 schedule because of disputes with the land owner. Thus, the one-year extension at Mt. Morris is not comparable to the one-year extension at Glen Helen.
So, when MX Sports refused to extend Glen Helen??s National contract, Glen Helen assumed that MX Sports had already committed, at least in principle, to the other track in question for 2011 (Pala).
"This was a difficult decision, but ultimately, we simply were not able to come to contractual terms with Glen Helen Raceway," said Davey Coombs. "By moving the date to September 11, we will have time to find a suitable venue. Riders, teams and fans are making travel plans now and we want them to feel secure that we will have an exceptional venue ready in Southern California. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this change."
Leading up to the eventual outcome, Glen Helen, Hangtown and Washougal sought legal counsel (together) to resolve issues with MX Sports. The Hangtown group is not a favorite of MX Sports (nor vice versa), but it is reported that they got some of what they were asking for. Washougal, on the other hand, felt that they were on the chopping block for 2011??thus, they joined with Glen Helen and Hangtown as a group. Hangtown, for its part, did not stick with the group, but instead took the MX Sports compromise deal and dropped out of their ??one-for-all, all-for-one? agreement with the other two tracks. It wasn??t the bravura move that you would expect from the Dirt Digger MC, but it happened. As for Washougal, that deal hasn't been decided yet. But Washougal feels that its days are numbered with MX Sports (and talk of more Nationals at automobile tracks in the future signaled the Huffman family that Washougal would be replaced), they wanted to fight now instead of getting the axe later (and alone). Perhaps, Glen Helen dropping out will get them a contract extension. We'll see, but let's not get misty about all of this because in next few years there will be a sea change: Glen Helen is gone, Mt. Morris is next, Washougal thinks they are in danger, Southwick has serious issues, Budds Creek is iffy, there is talk about car tracks getting races and Ricky Carmichael is in line for a "good buddy" deal.
As Davey Coombs said, ??Change is never easy. Glen Helen's decision to cancel their 2010 National over the length of their new contract is as surprising as it is disappointing. It leaves us no choice but to move forward and find a new facility in Southern California. I feel bad for the fans of Glen Helen, as well as the ones who have already made travels plans for Memorial Day weekend.?
The reason that few people heard about what was transpiring was because contract talks are private until a resolution of some kind is reached. There was always the possibility of some kind of agreement. And, if the media had reported on this issue a week ago, it would have said that Hangtown, Glen Helen and Washougal were all going to pullout of the 2010 AMA Nationals. That would have been inaccurate??because negotiation take many twists and turns. Thus, nobody involved said anything in hopes that it would all work out. It should be noted that several leaks caused rumors to spread that actually impacted the contract talks??it is obvious that the rumors tainted the opinion of Glen Helen against the true intent of MX Sports?? position.
No one conspired to ruin the sport. MX Sports and Glen Helen had a difference of opinion, and based on the available evidence, they negotiated with their ultimate goals in mind. It didn??t work out.
This is also not about a battle between MXA and Racer X. Apart from the fact that I design the Glen Helen National track and have for 15 years, MXA has nothing to do with the management of Glen Helen (although we do race there all the time). Davey and I meet often to discuss issues of interest about the Nationals (we just had lunch two months ago). I am often at odds with Davey (particularly on the smooth track concept, moto length, track length, timed qualifying and limiting pro rider entries), but we normally state our opinions, agree to meet again when he??s in town and move forward. I don??t see how either magazine benefits from the AMA National series getting a black-eye.
On a side note: It is refreshing that neither Glen Helen nor MX Sports are attempting to trash each other in their press releases. The Nationals will continue and Glen Helen will most likely find another high-profile event for their facility.
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From my understanding the Hangtown and Washougal rounds were rumors. Do you have differing information?
I don't have any info on Washougal but my understanding is the Dirt Diggers (club that puts on the
Hangtown event) and MX Sport haven't reached an agreement yet. Since this is heresay, better
still classify this as a rumour.
No one conspired to ruin the sport.
That may be true, but the loss of one of the premier tracks and facilities because of the short
sightedness of the promoter goes a long way in accomplishing that. I can't think of another
track in SoCal that can rival Glen Helen. In my opinion. any other track will be a step down
for the racers and the fans.
If the rumours about the loss of the other tracks (prime facilities with long histories) prove to be
true, it should serve as a wake up call to the fans. Change may be inevitable, and sometimes
change is for the good, but I don't think that's the case here.
dogger
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dogger315 you're assessment is appreciated...
Personally I don't know what the deal is, just that there is more information to come. We may find out that it was just one of those things, or maybe something else.
For those who are following along, here is a response that Davey Coombs made on the MXA site,
DAVEY COOMBS RESPONDS AND STATES HIS CASE
By Davey Coombs
I can't argue with Jody's bottom line on this whole conundrum: it was a difference in length of the term, that neither side could get past. I continue to respect and appreciate what he does for the sport, and I hope we will continue to work together (though admittedly sometimes in different directions) to help the sport grow. I count on his opinion, his knowledge and his passion for motocross.
There are a couple of things that have been posted (on internet chat rooms) that are not accurate, or at least there's more to explain....
Both Pennsylvania tracks got one-year deals; I just did not make that clear in the earlier post. And yes, the plan is to move one to the Southeast in 2011. The other one has some work to do if it's going to remain.
There are no automobile tracks on the schedule, and there will never be one with more than 35,000 seats because that makes it a Supercross, as defined by the AMA's contract with the Supercross series. But a place like Barber Motorsports in Alabama would be a great location (and it's a motorcycle track, first and foremost).
"Proximity to Los Angeles" doesn't have a thing to do with TV production or budgets. Speed is located in Charlotte, NC, NBC is in New York City, and the folks who film the races are from all over the map. The cost is the same -- many, many times more expensive than I ever thought it would be.
As far as smoother tracks go, we're always damned if we do, damned if we don't. People get hurt, and everyone complains the tracks are too rough and dangerous. Smooth it out, people complain the tracks are too fast and dangerous. Bikes are so much different and more powerful than they used to be, and the stakes much higher for today's top riders. There is a sweet spot in there somewhere -- Thunder Valley was too smooth for the first motos, perfect for the second. Jake Weimer said Red Bud was rougher than he's ever seen it, and he won (that was the race where Ryan Dungey somehow endoed on a banked turn). Anyone who's ridden Loretta Lynn's knows how well a track that is both rough and groomed can be for racing....
And for the record, there is no deal with Pala Raceway or anyone else at this time. I have never stayed at Pala Resort, I have never gambled there, and I have never ridden there, but I have been there twice. It has a lot of potential, just like Glen Helen, Honey Lake, Competitive Edge and a few other California tracks. (And if you're keeping score at home, in the two years I have also been to Barber, three different tracks in Georgia, two ski resorts in Utah, a large park in North Carolina, Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA, Arizona Cycle Park, and I am headed to Camp Woodward in central Pennsylvania soon, as well as another place in North Carolina and one in South Carolina).
From here, we have to move on. We have a series coming up and a lot of very good tracks and riders, not to mention the fans and our industry, expect a quality championship. I plan to deliver. And for anyone who doesn't think I put the sport of motocross first and foremost, come out to the races and work alongside me for the weekend. If that doesn't change your mind, nothing will. But at least you will see a good race, and I will have someone to help us get the job done.
DC
MX Sports
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This is all bad stuff but I will not be upset if Birmingham AL gets a national. I live in FL and there is nothing close to us. Supercross DOES NOT COUNT. Nothing beats being next to the fence whereever you want to watch. Used to be Gatorback was the opener but that was before my time. Like I said this is bad stuff but if it means my 9 and 11 year olds get to see a National I am OK. Add it to the 2 stroke series or better yet see project Two 50 crack the top ten or five and I will personally clean Mikes bike (regardless of results). You can take that to the bank because we will be there. Duco.
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All we need is a new racing organization. I don't want the sport to grow for now, I just want it better with fair rules and challenging tracks. Go back to basics... Fuck the T.V. and the medias. An all privateers underground racing organization will do the job where Maico..TM can compete!
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All we need is a new racing organization. I don't want the sport to grow for now, I just want it better with fair rules and challenging tracks. Go back to basics... Fuck the T.V. and the medias. An all privateers underground racing organization will do the job where Maico..TM can compete!
A set up wherein Maico and TM can be competitive?I gathered from your post you didn't want smooth,easy tracks ;D J/K,
This sucks,I always loved Glen Helen.
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Screw AMA and their stupid rules and the way they do things...We are in 2010 and the sport is getting worst every year. I am so over Pro Racing. Fuck them!
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All we need is a new racing organization. I don't want the sport to grow for now, I just want it better with fair rules and challenging tracks. Go back to basics... Fuck the T.V. and the medias. An all privateers underground racing organization will do the job where Maico..TM can compete!
A set up wherein Maico and TM can be competitive?I gathered from your post you didn't want smooth,easy tracks ;D J/K,
This sucks,I always loved Glen Helen.
Lol the Maico looks like an old YZ.. and the TM does the job exactly like a Japanese bike.. lol so no need of smooth tracks! Just stupid that you need to sell 400+ bikes to compete in the AMA..if I remember.. I would like to see new manufacturers lining up with the big 4. Would make it more fun and bikes better. BTW, I stopped watching Supergay Supercross. I am having more fun reading the threads on vital than watching that crap on SPEED.
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Glen Helen may have lost the nationals but they just picked up a FIM World MX Champ. race for the next five years starting in May 2010. This is way cool to have a world mx race in the states again KTM111
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It certainly is cool!! I love the national at Unadilla, but the 250 USGP was awesome back in the day. I loved seeing the exotic European hand-build works bikes!! Those twin-cylinder 250 2 strokes sounded like nothing else I have ever heard!!