Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: 2smoker on January 16, 2010, 12:45:30 PM
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I know that KTM own Husky but I don't know about the chainsaw division... Look at the second video..no smoke at all...Really nice.. Yeah it is a chainsaw.. but the concept will probably give a 2 stroke rider a bit more torque/traction which is good.. The emissions is a lot reduced.. We are getting there!! :-*
NOW DEVELOPED BY HUSQVARNA WE HAVE 'X' TORQ.
'X' torq is a 2 stroke engine concept which gives you a 20% improvement in fuel consumptions, plus a 60% reduction in exhaust emissions.
And, most dramatically, as engine speed of the 'X' torq motor slows, unlike traditional 2 strokes, it just keeps on pulling - this is torqueâ?¦...
Engine power can be measured in two ways. Brake horse power (B.H.P.). This is measured at the engines highest speed. Torq is measured at the engines speed where it has the greatest push.
Putting it simply, horse power is a 'punch' and torque is a 'push'.
Now to give a basic explanation of 'X'torq.
A disadvantage of 2 strokes is that the incoming fuel air mixture gets mixed up with the outgoing exhaust gasses. Fuel air mix can end up in the exhaust and wasted exhaust gasses can also be forced back into the engine cylinder, diluting the fuel air mix (caused by the exhaust pulse).
4 strokes don't have this problem as they waste (half) an engine revolution just to push out the exhaust gasses.
'X' torq engines have a porting system that during every engine revolution a shot of clean, cold oxygen rich air is introduced to the cylinder. This acts as a buffer between the incoming fuel air mixture and the outgoing exhaust gasses.
This separates the inlet gasses from the exhaust gasses. This with the 'super scavenging' front positioned ports gives probably the most efficient small 2 stroke so far made.
At full speed B.H.P. is the same. At lower speed the X torq motor out pulls a conventional 2 stroke.
The X torq concept has been used successfully for a few years now on certain Husqvarna machines, 335RX, 455 and 576XP.
The 576XP is a machine that in use can perform along with some 90cc saws. As the saw is reasonably compact and can be used for heavy, limbing with a short bar, then because of it's high torque motor is used also for felling with a long bar.
One saw for 2 jobs. A 30% saving in fuel consumption, a lot less to carry into the forest.
The now tried and tested X torq engines have now been introduced across a range of Husqvarna saws. 235, 235e, 240e, 435, 435e, 440e, 450e, 460e, 355RX and 576XP..
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/forest/products/xp-saws/husqvarna-chainsaws-xp-saws/ (http://www.husqvarna.com/us/forest/products/xp-saws/husqvarna-chainsaws-xp-saws/)
Strato Animation 460 XTORQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY7zQKw4qsQ#)
husqvarna 576xp compression - decompression (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZllBf8bCos#ws)
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Are the chain saws owned by husky / BMW? if so we should be asking for the tec to be put on to the mx range.
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Are the chain saws owned by husky / BMW?
no.
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ok it's a little tough for me to grasp and i watched the video in slow-mo about 10 times, but am i understanding this correctly that:
the additional air that is pumped into the top end of the transfer port acts as a clearing/evacuating agent for the spent gases residing in the combustion chamber, thereby not using the fuel/air mixture to do the clearing, hence no unburned fuel/air mixture exits the combustion chamber? If so, this is PURE GENIUS!!! i mean this retains ALL of the two stroke's simplicity and light weight, and apparently adds torque. and i noticed little to no smoke exiting that chainsaw. Emissions could be tweaked by the air transfer/timing groove in the piston!
The only thing we have to worry about now is that whoever patented this doesn't make the licensing rights cost out of this world
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ok it's a little tough for me to grasp and i watched the video in slow-mo about 10 times, but am i understanding this correctly that:
the additional air that is pumped into the top end of the transfer port acts as a clearing/evacuating agent for the spent gases residing in the combustion chamber, thereby not using the fuel/air mixture to do the clearing, hence no unburned fuel/air mixture exits the combustion chamber? If so, this is PURE GENIUS!!! i mean this retains ALL of the two stroke's simplicity and light weight, and apparently adds torque. and i noticed little to no smoke exiting that chainsaw. Emissions could be tweaked by the air transfer/timing groove in the piston!
The only thing we have to worry about now is that whoever patented this doesn't make the licensing rights cost out of this world
Somebody just woke up! add powervalve (we need that) and a EFI-DI system..This would be the cleanest engine around with some added torque on top of it. The concept is so bad -ass! They are using a simple carb and ther results are just plain amazing!
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Finally got a moment to watch both of these videos and I'm blown away!!! As Chris2T has already stated this is pure genius!!
When you watch, it's so simple that it kind of makes you wonder why no one had done it before.
Then when you see it in action, there is virtually no smoke! Just that one point alone can change many people's perceptions of the two-stroke. If I used a chain saw more than one or twice a year I'd buy one of these right away.
Husqvarna is thinking outside the box with this one.
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Don't forget the added torque at low speed... :-*
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Come on, be honest... besides the Open bikes, who really rides two-strokes at low speed??? ;D ;D
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Come on, be honest... besides the Open bikes, who really rides two-strokes at low speed??? ;D ;D
ahhaahah good one! Can be useful in tight stuff like arenacross and enduro! Viva 2 stroke!
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I don't understand the point of the second video. A well tuned saw with the right oil doesn't smoke anyway. I work as a production tree faller and i run a stihl over a husky any day, in my opinion the STIHL with conventional 2t smokes the Husky. Not saying that it's not a brilliant idea but Husqvarna chainsaw's aren't anything special.
Love to see that idea developed further though.
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My favorite chainsaw is still the Maico 460.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hugo90/3911623150/#secret079108e62a-w500-h375 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hugo90/3911623150/#secret079108e62a-w500-h375)
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Those big bore chain saw dudes are freaking nuts!! :o :o :o
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I don't understand the point of the second video. A well tuned saw with the right oil doesn't smoke anyway. I work as a production tree faller and i run a stihl over a husky any day, in my opinion the STIHL with conventional 2t smokes the Husky. Not saying that it's not a brilliant idea but Husqvarna chainsaw's aren't anything special.
Love to see that idea developed further though.
A Stihl?Pbbfffttt,just goes to show what you know? :P.I used to have one but my hands have circulation issues these days and the Husky has a beter antivibe.As for how Husky compares quality wise to Stihl... :-X
.Now then,Husky motorcycles are owned by BMW,who bought them from Cagiva,who bought the MC division form Husky.Husqvarna,Jonsered,Poulan chainsaws are owned by electrolux.As for Xtorq,it's nothing that earth shattering,it's been out for a number of years now.The biggest reason for the low smoke is the catalytic exhaust-which mine had before it became-er-modified.It now smokes a very little bit,runs properly,and doesn't run hot enough to melt the plastic anymore.
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I don't understand the point of the second video. A well tuned saw with the right oil doesn't smoke anyway. I work as a production tree faller and i run a stihl over a husky any day, in my opinion the STIHL with conventional 2t smokes the Husky. Not saying that it's not a brilliant idea but Husqvarna chainsaw's aren't anything special.
Love to see that idea developed further though.
A Stihl?Pbbfffttt,just goes to show what you know? :P.I used to have one but my hands have circulation issues these days and the Husky has a beter antivibe.As for how Husky compares quality wise to Stihl... :-X
.Now then,Husky motorcycles are owned by BMW,who bought them from Cagiva,who bought the MC division form Husky.Husqvarna,Jonsered,Poulan chainsaws are owned by electrolux.As for Xtorq,it's nothing that earth shattering,it's been out for a number of years now.The biggest reason for the low smoke is the catalytic exhaust-which mine had before it became-er-modified.It now smokes a very little bit,runs properly,and doesn't run hot enough to melt the plastic anymore.
HA ha , i was wondering how long it would take for someone to reply to that. there's a pretty strong rivalry between husky and stihl guys, all i know is that i use a saw for a living and i prefer stihl. Excessive vibration hasn't been an issue on any new saw for years now.
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stihl do a power vale that cut down emissions in their saws,info please :)
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No pv's on saws.
TotalNZ,once you admit Stihls are junk you'll feel much better ;D
As for vibration,it makes a difference when your hands are buggered.My stihl never bothered me until they got bad but once that way,the husky spring system is much better than stihls rubber isolators.Last going off,I could only use the stihl for a 1/2 hour before my hands were numb,my Jred still numbs them but only slightly and I can go for hours.The emissions thing on both is a curse.It figures the epa would target saws and lawn and garden stuff rather than go after industry.From cat mufflers to fixed jets with super lean settings-bah.Fortunately,the jred was easily modified and just had locks on the screws,from what I"m told,some of the newer Stihls have a fixed high speed.
As for which is better,from owning both and having various apart I'd say they're both good saws though Stihl is of a slightly higher quality but I find the huskies nicer to use-and you're not cleaning the filter every tank.More importantly,the jred/huskies scream while the stihls have that lower sped "four strokish" sound :o
Shame on you :D
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Have to agree on most of your points there ford832, except the stihl being junk that is.
The spring vibration dampener must be the better system cause the new style Stihl's have it.
As far as emissions and limiter caps on carbs, we don't have that problem in NZ yet thank god.
A new saw here is un tampered with and comes stock with a dual port muffler.
Do you work in the bush?
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Nope,I work in a garage.I used to though-logs and pulp.After I started working in a garage, I'd take my vacation in the winter and go cutting.That worked out ok until the wife kiboshed it-figured I should go somewhere with her instead I guess.Now I just do it for fun or for my own use.You're lucky yours don't come restricted.It's not that you can't derestrict it but it's a pain in the a$$ to have to do it-and they don't run properly until you do.Mine ran lean and hot and wouldn't open up.I don't know how they expect people to use them that way-of course,no one does.I always liked my Stihl.So much so that eventually my father and bro in law bought the same machine-then I bought the Jred and naturally,had to continuously tell them what a POS the Stihls were-lol
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This would come under the heading of AST /FAST - as written about in:
http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/the-experimental-motorcycle-association.html (http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/the-experimental-motorcycle-association.html)
This is an aditional page on from 'the future of 2 strokes" one on Dirt Bike Tips & Tricks website.
All an interesting read, although the proposition of placing the swingarm pivot in front of the countershaft sprocket is a real blot on the posting - suspension action Would be horendous, I don't know what he is thinking.
Going for long swingarm is a great idea, but not the SA pivot / CS positioning that is proposed. Think of a concentric SA /CS pivot with an extra long swingarm (for positioning, see side on pics of the engine mount forward of the CS on a BMW450, this would give the long swingarm, central pivot location he seems to be proposing, and limit the engines effect on the suspension that CS can give- though not all like that), with the tilted engine he mentioned earlier. You'd get the pipe out of the way as well, thus reducing another problem a lot of people throw up at 2 strokes - easily damaged pipes.
There is a lot to come from 2ts, it's just whether or not a company will make a move.The one that does so, stands to really reap the rewards. With KTM faffing about, perhaps Yamaha, the Japanese MC maker that has shown it's tendency to innovate, may get a modern 2t out before them. I'm probably dreaming though. :(
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I have to agree with ya Ford832 except when you say Husky's are a better saw than a Stihl ! Husqvarna chain saws are full of cheap plastic knobs & they have been known to break off.I have to say that the Stihl brand is a slightly better & higher quality saw.Everything else that you stated such as BMW owning Husqvarna as well as the other info you gave is 100% correct & I thank you for educating the others on here who did'nt know. 8)
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Talking about smoking 2 strokers.
I am using on almost all my 2 stroke bikes a LECTRON carb and mix OPTI 2 Oil 100-1.
Ergo,no smoke...
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5903/1005338.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/1005338.jpg/)
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Cool,Lectrons are a blast from the past-for me anyway.As for the mix ratio,I've never been that brave :o
As for the husky/stihl thing,yeah I know.They both last well but if you tear into them and see things like stihls aluminum oil pump set up and huskies plastic ones-well,you get the idea.On another side note,it seems recently the stihl/husky debate has been resolved on both sides by many who have gone to Dolmar-certainly not like the old sachs dolmar of old.One of those may be my next just to see what all the hubbub is about 8)
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Talking about smoking 2 strokers.
I am using on almost all my 2 stroke bikes a LECTRON carb and mix OPTI 2 Oil 100-1.
Ergo,no smoke...
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5903/1005338.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/1005338.jpg/)
more info on this please :)
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This should help a little....
http://www.lectronfuelsystems.com/technical_info.htm (http://www.lectronfuelsystems.com/technical_info.htm)
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I'm totally a fan after watching those X-torq vids, such a cool simple idea why no one thought before and why the concept isn't on other motorbikes is amazing!!
Anyway it's all good timing as we've been taking about getting a Stihl hedge trimmer, but I'm swaying towards the Husky now in a big way. Figured we'd order a lawn mower and strimmer as well maybe someone would give a slight discount if we order a bunch of stuff.
I stopped by a mate who has a landscaping business and he was pushing me strong onto the Stilh's which he uses through and through. Everytime I mentioned the Husky he didn't want to hear it!! But I really like the look of the Husky's and after reading the emissions spec I'm sold on the Husky's! I know I'll get an earful when I show up with a Husky, got a feeling he's got a good relationship with the Stihl dealer!!
I'd go against the grain and get the fourstroke strimmer over the twostroke as sucking in fumes doesn't seem like a bright idea really. If anyone has anything to add to the Husky's would be nice to hear!!
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You can't go wrong with a husky :)As for the fumes,I like it but even if I didn't,I'd sooner smell that that drag around the 4t weight all day.
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You can't go wrong with a husky :)As for the fumes,I like it but even if I didn't,I'd sooner smell that that drag around the 4t weight all day.
good to hear, Husky it'll be!! :D
yeah I get headaches from the fumes after a while, when I used to race by mid afternoon I'd have a splitting headache from the fumes of A747! I like it at first but after a bit the head hurts! :'(