Two Stroke Motocross

Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: Charles Owens on March 22, 2011, 08:26:08 AM

Title: TM Racing
Post by: Charles Owens on March 22, 2011, 08:26:08 AM
Hey guys, any interest in seeing Power Play and TSM becoming a TM Dealer? :)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: scotty dog on March 22, 2011, 10:31:25 AM
Thats a sensational idea Charles.......go for it if ya can ;)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TMKIWI on March 22, 2011, 12:22:22 PM
Good idea  ;D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ACMX on March 22, 2011, 04:02:53 PM
Do it  :D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: SwapperMX on March 23, 2011, 03:07:20 AM
I'll even add a reason why it would be a good idea. Feel out the current market, and then consider the bikes that TM offer. A lot of similarities. Also, anyone who currently rides a jap bike, but wants to ride "something else" instantly looks at KTM. The TM offers a much better bike in my opinion, using an alloy frame, and a linkage rear suspension. I know many will say that the PDS is as good, but I have never liked it, and probably never will. I also prefer the alloy frame, the way the feel on the track and the feedback they offer. Also, it is much easier to keep the frame looking new, and to clean up upon sale. Add to that, the bikes are as good as buying a factory race bike straight out of the crate. Built purely to win races, no compromises like you see on the bikes of the "Big 4". Add to that your ability to market the bikes with strong credentials to an ever growing audience, as well as offer service above and beyond 99% of motorcycle dealers in the US. Lastly, and maybe one of the best reasons, is that they would be perfect bikes to launch a serious race campaign on for next year. Seems like a no brainer really !!

 ;D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on March 23, 2011, 03:35:14 AM
Sounds interesting to me.A TM will likely be my next-so long as I figure the old crippled body has a couple years left in it :)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: George on March 23, 2011, 04:15:48 AM
In England, there are a few dealers about, but most are say a suzuki shop for example, and will order a TM and give back up if you ask for it, but the bikes are works of art! and they are getting more popular over here, and for a serious racer it works out cheaper to buy a TM, than to buy a jap bike and trick it out to the level of the TM, if there are very few dealers in the usa then you could be onto a great idea, or it could fail due to people not wanting to buy an expensive european bike theyve never heard of, but good luck and hopefully you go ahead with it  ;D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: MyckMcClung on March 23, 2011, 04:49:29 AM
Do it, race it, give it to me next  season  :D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Charles Owens on March 23, 2011, 05:45:07 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys! We have been considering it for a while, and recently the oppurtunity came along. We have some meetings this weekend to try and work out the details, and we are waiting on a call from our leasing agent to see if the spot we already have leased is doable for a dealership/parts.
We should know for sure by Monday. :)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: eprovenzano on March 23, 2011, 05:58:55 AM
Good luck Charles, its sounds like a promising venture
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Charles Owens on March 23, 2011, 06:06:28 AM
Yeah, luckily with the economy being the way it is and TM being a smaller company the dealer buy-in is doable.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: monsteryz125 on March 23, 2011, 12:24:18 PM
Great idea TM's are really nice bikes and perfect opportunity to race one next season which would get the bikes youd be selling more exposure
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ktm150rippa on March 23, 2011, 12:34:23 PM
I'll even add a reason why it would be a good idea. Feel out the current market, and then consider the bikes that TM offer. A lot of similarities. Also, anyone who currently rides a jap bike, but wants to ride "something else" instantly looks at KTM. The TM offers a much better bike in my opinion, using an alloy frame, and a linkage rear suspension. I know many will say that the PDS is as good, but I have never liked it, and probably never will. I also prefer the alloy frame, the way the feel on the track and the feedback they offer. Also, it is much easier to keep the frame looking new, and to clean up upon sale. Add to that, the bikes are as good as buying a factory race bike straight out of the crate. Built purely to win races, no compromises like you see on the bikes of the "Big 4". Add to that your ability to market the bikes with strong credentials to an ever growing audience, as well as offer service above and beyond 99% of motorcycle dealers in the US. Lastly, and maybe one of the best reasons, is that they would be perfect bikes to launch a serious race campaign on for next year. Seems like a no brainer really !!

 ;D

There's one of you everywhere I go. I've still never been able to feel the difference with a link. But if you say so.......
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: opfermanmotors on March 23, 2011, 12:58:21 PM
I say go for it.   :)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: EJ on March 23, 2011, 01:01:23 PM
TM's are great bikes, works of art. Top notch, also in performance.
In western europe, many TM dealers have emerged.
Spare parts are usually delivered within 36hrs, if not in stock.
In belgium, the TM 300EN was voted as enduro-bike of the year.
I believe MXA will do a full test on the TM's this season, as they have a good
relationship with the new US importer. Do it!!! TM's are great!
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TMKIWI on March 23, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
Finally people are seeing the light. ;D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on March 23, 2011, 02:06:20 PM
I almost had a new 144 a couple years ago until an unplanned expense drained the bike fund.The only thing that bothered me at the time was that I was told you couldn't get a service manual for it-owners manual but that's it.I know it's just a 2t engine but on occasion I've had to refer to all my manuals for specs or certain procedures.Maybe it's not that way anymore?
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Hondacrrider on March 23, 2011, 02:57:06 PM
TM' would be awesome to race in the pro class as well.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: chump6784 on March 23, 2011, 03:22:09 PM
How much different are the prices on tm's in the states compared to other bikes. Over here there is $500 difference between the mx 250 and sx 250. The 125's and 144's are a hit dearer but not that much more. My concern would be lack of available after market support. You would really only have the dealer thy would know anything about them.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TMKIWI on March 23, 2011, 05:25:08 PM
Over here the parts are very easy to get and most are in stock. I got foopegs for mine overnight. And at half the price as Jap ones.
Aftermarket parts are not a problem as you DON'T NEED ANY.
Consumerbles are not a problem as most you can get from any dealer.
Air Filter- CR250   Front pads-KTM   Rear pads-RMZ etc.

TM's are not as hard to own as you would think.

I have a PDF manual for mine.

Dirtbikeworld.net an Australian forum has lots of info on TM's. I of the guys there helped develope a few things for the Aussie market and seems to know his shit.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: chump6784 on March 23, 2011, 06:10:44 PM
Do you find the engines more maintenance intensive than a Ktm or a jap bike. I don't race but just do go to tracks on weekends an ride. I know they are higher performance but does that mean a lot more maintenance or just a bit more
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: opfermanmotors on March 23, 2011, 06:18:44 PM
Quote
Do you find the engines more maintenance intensive than a Ktm or a jap bike.

You got to change the primary chain every so often
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: luthier269 on March 23, 2011, 07:02:51 PM
I miss my Maico!
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TMKIWI on March 23, 2011, 08:50:57 PM
Most people get 50 hours on a piston. I changed mine at 50 and it still would have done abit more.


Charles, check out this site. Alot of information.

http://www.tmukonline.net/Page/135/tm-racing-quality.html (http://www.tmukonline.net/Page/135/tm-racing-quality.html)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Swimr2DaResQ on March 23, 2011, 09:10:28 PM
Awesome idea!!! My next bike will be a mx 250 or mx 300, looking to get it in the next year or two(depending on getting promoted at work it could be sooner)! I would definitely buy it from you!!!!  8)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: riffraff on March 23, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
If only I could ever afford to buy a new bike  :(
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: EJ on March 23, 2011, 10:23:05 PM
As for prices, i know that the TM 300 EN sells for about 7299-7399EUR.
All TM dealers here are really genuine friendly passionate people.
When yu buy a TM here, it will be full setup for you, and propperly jetted.
They want to give you the best possible product. TM = All good!!!
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TotalNZ on March 23, 2011, 11:29:56 PM
Yep good move i think.
They are definately great bikes but apparently the Italians can be hard to deal with, so my importer says.
No complaints at all but i did have a few issues and querys and found it hard to get answers.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: SwapperMX on March 24, 2011, 01:17:29 AM

There's one of you everywhere I go. I've still never been able to feel the difference with a link. But if you say so.......

Obviously not fast enough !!    ::)    ;)     8)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: eprovenzano on March 24, 2011, 05:30:16 AM
Charles I'm curious as to the requirements that TM puts on their dealers.  Can you give us some insite as to the requirements, example you need to purchase x number of bikes, parts etc. Please nothing specific $ wise, as that's between you and TM, but I was curious as what the dealers were required to handle...

From a business aspect, now is the time to enter the market...  Sales of thumpers have fallen...  but smokers seem strong.  If you have the right product, you can capitalize on the change in bike preferences.  Many riders are looking for an alternative, KTM smokers are hard to find, and with TM you have a product ready to race the moment they take possession.

I think I speak for the entire forum when I say we wish you nothing but the best with this venture, good luck... 
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: George on March 24, 2011, 05:45:59 AM
The way everyone is talking, they are focussing on the sales being high because they are 2 strokes, yes they are great bikes, but TM also make top of the range 4 strokes that could tempt 4 strokers from jap bikes aswell, so you can have a win win situation with the right marketing and publicity  :D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: MXPAD on March 24, 2011, 12:33:41 PM
www.tmukonline.net (http://www.tmukonline.net) come on in the waters lovely..........................
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: downonmonday on March 24, 2011, 12:50:51 PM
I have already decided my next MX bike is going to be a TM 250. I just cannot get over all the great reviews, support, and the craftsmanship involved. Leave it to the Italians to make another great product.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on March 24, 2011, 02:32:30 PM
Leave it to the Italians to make another great product.

Sort of like the old Ducatis that were famous for having fruit flies in the clearcoat  :D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TotalNZ on March 24, 2011, 11:23:43 PM
Leave it to the Italians to make another great product.

Sort of like the old Ducatis that were famous for having fruit flies in the clearcoat  :D
HaHa yep exactly like that. TM's have a real handbuilt feel, and the quirks to go with that.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: bearorso on March 24, 2011, 11:51:26 PM
Leave it to the Italians to make another great product.

Sort of like the old Ducatis that were famous for having fruit flies in the clearcoat  :D
HaHa yep exactly like that. TM's have a real handbuilt feel, and the quirks to go with that.

As a bike rider, fabricator, and engineer, I love the TMs.

They are gorgeous things to behold, and work pretty damned well, too.


I've had a fair bit bit of involvement with them, with a few friends owning them, and one in particular being a supported rider of the OZ distributors for a few years. So I don't look at them through rose coloured glasses. You can look at one, and amongst the beautiful engineering, you'll come across something that you'd expect on a twin pipe CZ. When they get it wrong, they really excel themselves :o. I've had to do a bit of remedial engineering to each of his bikes.

But, they have been progressively getting rid of these types of things, and I'm hard put, with the latest models, to find fault with them.

Their 4ts started out with quite a few problems. Mention TM 4ts to 2 of my mates and they go very quiet, or very loud, and not from good experiences - all sorts of problems, the nastiest of which were cases that 'popped' / spilt across gear shaft bearing housings, locking up the engines in a spectacular fashion. Especially spectacular when you're right behind one when it 'popped' - quite the train wreck. But, that's a few years ago, and I'm sure they have moved on - the reports I read and hear are pretty good on the 4ts now. The new CCM, if it's ever released, will come with a TM engine.

Fantastic bikes, with some quirks. The world is a Much better place with companies like TM producing something other than 'cookie cutter' bikes.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Bioflex on March 25, 2011, 02:56:24 AM
I've a 2001 model Tm125 which I picked up having no idea of it's history.
Bought it for no other reason apart from being unique and cheap (which in reality is a risky combination) it has been abaolsutely brilliant since.
In the 6 months I have owned it I have probably taken it out 5 - 10 times, haven't touched the motor and it's been perfectly reliable. Will have to give the old girl a freshen up as a reward for being so good.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on March 26, 2011, 05:51:55 AM
They sound a lot like my Berg-typically euro I suppose.It was an excellent machine with many forward thinking ideas-and the performance to match.The only thing was,you had to finish it yourself(for lack of a better way of explaining it) for it to realize it's potential.No big deal but probably not a bike for the mechanically spastic.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: EJ on March 26, 2011, 12:22:50 PM
I don't see how working on a 2 stroke TM would be difficult.
I've seen a few of them, they're very simple. Even the powervalves are a piece of cake.
125 TM is also used for karting. But their services might be different in the US...?
The TM dealers in my area will set it up for your weight and abilities, and jet it near your house,
for your area. They hand it over to you when you are 100% happy with it.
All 4 TM dealers in my area do this. They have a service guy with a van,
when they deliver it at your house or track, they won't leave untill your're happy with your TM.
Good personal service. Almost a factory feel!
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on March 26, 2011, 06:16:05 PM
I don't see how working on a 2 stroke TM would be difficult.

Certainly not but at times,you simply need specifications,clearances,torque values etc.I just found it odd that it was the only bike I'd ever heard tell of without an available service manual or download.Maybe that's not the case now.Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: EJ on March 26, 2011, 09:26:21 PM
TM Owner Manuals are here;

http://www.tm-racingforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=64 (http://www.tm-racingforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=64)

http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/parts/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/parts/)

http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/owners-manuals/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/owners-manuals/)

The Torque tightenings, and many other usefull information are in the first link!!^^^^^^

Suspension manual;
http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/suspension-tuning-manuals/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/suspension-tuning-manuals/)

Some miscellanious stuff;
http://www.cross-shop.eu/Webshop/index.php?item=tm-originele-onderdelen&action=page&group_id=31&lang=NL (http://www.cross-shop.eu/Webshop/index.php?item=tm-originele-onderdelen&action=page&group_id=31&lang=NL)

http://www.tmracing.it/eng/downloads.php (http://www.tmracing.it/eng/downloads.php)


Here you find lots of info on setup etc;
http://www.tm-nederland.nl/downloads.html (http://www.tm-nederland.nl/downloads.html)
(also click on model-years, on the left hand side. There's some clearance values, but no torque chart..)


But i guess Barker Brothers, or Pete Vitrano (or TSM soon, maybe!)
will be able to help you also, with TM questions. There's also a TM Racing forum..








Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TMKIWI on April 01, 2011, 04:11:38 PM
The only anoying quirk i have with mine is the kick start knuckle is slightly worn and at certain revs it vibrates on the expansion chamber and sounds like a cracked piston. :o
There is very little room between frame and exhaust.
It scared the shit out of me first time I heard it.
I have learnt to live with it rather then spend money on a kick start I don't need.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: MyckMcClung on April 01, 2011, 04:22:56 PM
I totally know how that feels, even though I don't have a TM, the kicker on my KX was touching the pipe and driving me nuts!! I cut a piece of old inner tube about 1 1/2 " long and long enough to wrap around the kicker with a double overlap where it touches the pipe, position it where it is touching and zip tie it on with two ties one on the top and one on the bottom. Be sure to point the overlapping piece towards the back to reduce wind drag  ;D
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on April 01, 2011, 05:46:50 PM
Lol,one of my KTM's was the same way.The first time I heard it I thought-WTF is that!  :o
It was solved with a slight pipe repositioning and a small piece of rubber about the size of a tire valve cap glued on to the side case such that the kicker contacted that just before it would have contacted the pipe.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on April 01, 2011, 05:54:17 PM
TM Owner Manuals are here;

http://www.tm-racingforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=64 (http://www.tm-racingforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=64)

http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/parts/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/parts/)

http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/owners-manuals/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/owners-manuals/)

The Torque tightenings, and many other usefull information are in the first link!!^^^^^^

Suspension manual;
http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/suspension-tuning-manuals/ (http://tmracingmotorcycles.com/support/suspension-tuning-manuals/)

Some miscellanious stuff;
http://www.cross-shop.eu/Webshop/index.php?item=tm-originele-onderdelen&action=page&group_id=31&lang=NL (http://www.cross-shop.eu/Webshop/index.php?item=tm-originele-onderdelen&action=page&group_id=31&lang=NL)

http://www.tmracing.it/eng/downloads.php (http://www.tmracing.it/eng/downloads.php)


Here you find lots of info on setup etc;
http://www.tm-nederland.nl/downloads.html (http://www.tm-nederland.nl/downloads.html)
(also click on model-years, on the left hand side. There's some clearance values, but no torque chart..)


But i guess Barker Brothers, or Pete Vitrano (or TSM soon, maybe!)
will be able to help you also, with TM questions. There's also a TM Racing forum..










Interesting and helpful but still not a real service manual.At 11:00 on a fri night when I need a clearance,endplay or some other spec I want it now,I don't want to chase around the net to find what other people guess.Almost a deal breaker for me-almost.
On the upside,GasGas has full manuals. :)
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: EJ on April 02, 2011, 06:37:56 AM
I fully understand Ford.
But where i live there are 4 TM dealers within 60 miles, and they have every single part in stock.
The people who sell and work on the TM's fully know these bikes inside and outside.
They also have very fast delivery shipment these days. But here, everything is always instock.

But i understand your opinion.
It's very imoprtant having a good, fast and reliable specialist/dealership nearby..
I've had troubles in the past myself, with an Aprilia RX and a '1985 KTM 250.
Both really brought me great fun, untill i needed information and/or parts...  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: ford832 on April 02, 2011, 06:44:32 AM
Sure.It wouldn't stop me from buying one but it would be annoying-especially when everyone else on the planet does it.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Super Trucker on April 08, 2011, 07:33:17 PM
I would be interested in a TM, but would have to sell my 2 cr125,s first. There,s  TM videos on the site somewhere, one vid compares the TM 125  to a  06 CR125. The rider said the TM handles just like the CR, so there handling is great along with the mid to top motor. How much for a piston and clutch plates ? And  brake pads, air filter, etc. can you use another bike makes parts, for the little stuff, just to keep the cost down and to have spares.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TotalNZ on April 08, 2011, 07:52:55 PM
I would be interested in a TM, but would have to sell my 2 cr125,s first. There,s  TM videos on the site somewhere, one vid compares the TM 125  to a  06 CR125. The rider said the TM handles just like the CR, so there handling is great along with the mid to top motor. How much for a piston and clutch plates ? And  brake pads, air filter, etc. can you use another bike makes parts, for the little stuff, just to keep the cost down and to have spares.
You can use CR clutch plates and you can get aftermarket pistons same price as other bikes.
There are quite a few crossover parts with other brands.
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: Super Trucker on April 08, 2011, 08:08:13 PM
Thanks for the info TotalNZ, I,m parked right now on my break, Chicago rail yards where tough today , like always. Sleepy time now
Title: Re: TM Racing
Post by: TotalNZ on April 09, 2011, 01:14:53 AM
No worries, here's a forum with some good links and info
http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php?sid=440242e0c8b151e9161a7eaba436fa01 (http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php?sid=440242e0c8b151e9161a7eaba436fa01)