Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: burn1986 on March 15, 2011, 01:42:19 PM
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Thanks for the update Charles as I'm sure everyone is just waiting to see an actual picture of an actual Maico and something that says they actually exist. ;D
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/03/distributors-wanted-as-maico-brand-name-is-uk-bound/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2011/03/distributors-wanted-as-maico-brand-name-is-uk-bound/)
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If it gets to April the first and we still haven't seen the new bike I'll be the first to throw up the April Fools joke.
In all seriousness, it is a little sad, at the end of the day I am sure there are many Maico fans here, so all these delays just make us lose hope that the brand will ever be revived into something half decent.
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As has been pointed out before, the problem isn't on their end, it's dealing with all the paperwork and bullshit to import into the US. I think Washington is afraid that people are going to buy Maicos instead of Harleys and that'll "Tekker Jerbs!"
they took our jobs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI#)
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As has been pointed out before, the problem isn't on their end, it's dealing with all the paperwork and bullshit to import into the US.I think Washington is afraid people will buy Maicos instead of Harleys.
Agreed.The US borders have been all but closed to trade in the last couple years.Just ask the Chinese. ::)
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Bullshit. Sure, U.S border issues may effect it's progress into the U.S but what about the rest of the world?
Given Maico is now a British company and formerly from Germany they'd be the first to acknowledge that the rest of the world is actually important for bike sales.
If they really are that silly to hold up a bikes release to the whole world by three + months due to some hold ups in one country it'd be crazy.
There is obviously something else going on here, please don't insult us by suggesting this is preventing the bikes actual release.
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Lol,that was just my weak attempt at humor Bioflex.I don't know what it is about this site,but whenever I try to post a non happy smiley,I get a happy one anyway-just with different marks around it.I guess it's to show how happy we all are.The smiley at the end was supposed to be a "rolling eyes" one.If you look at the products all around you,you'll see how much difficulty the Chinese have getting their products to the US market.
On the other hand,the Harley/Maico thing has me intrigued.Somehow all I can picture is opfermanmotors and Sachs riding through the woods with chrome bits,saddlebags and handlebar tassels.Yeah baby. ;D
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It will be interesting to see how this saga unfolds with Koestler making Maicos in Germany and whatever is happening in England.
Only full patch members get the handlebar tassels, I'm not sure if Opfermann is quite there yet. ;D
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This kind of threads make me laugh....
... probably because I know what's happening. :P :P :P
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Any hints? :-*
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As soon as I'm told I can say something, I'll post it on this forum... sorry Andrew!!
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There's a saying "It's only business", is that what is happening now? :-X
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I wouldn't hold my breath for them.
The website still says Coming Soon, for almost a decade now!
And by the time they do come out, they'll be expensive,
coz otherwise they won't break even in the costs to produce this niche bike.
For now, all we keep hearing is talk, but no action. Not even the reasons for all delays.
Heck, these days they can't even speak for themselves anymore.
Untill then, there's plenty of other exotic 2 Stroke stuff already availabe.
Perhaps more news in 2013...
Don't get me wrong, i really hope they will kick some ass one day.
But i've read too many articles about this.
If you really want a 700cc 2 stroke, buy a Kostler Maico, and get the fancy Maico International
add on's.
Otherwise, you'll have to keep waiting and waiting.
If they do come out in 2011, at least they kept that promise.
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I just think it's sad that certain people know what is going on, yet the loyal members of TSM, who many of which are clearly Maico fains are being kept in the dark.
Let's go through the events of the last 12 months.
After we were told that Maico had changed ownership (which apparently happened some time before) the U.K owners gave us some nice teaers of what would be happening and from all reports it seemed as if new releases and what not weren't too far away.
With some organised and media savvy people at the helm, it appeared that Maico had a real shot at reinventing itself, especially in a time when people were getting fed up with the 4 stroke monotony.
From June 2010 Maico International started talking about next years model (check their press releases if you doubt this) and given bikes generally get key updates each year, it was fair to assume this bike would be released within a few months.
From the website displaying "a new era dawns" I am sure many Maico fans became very excited. I, and no doubt many like myself checked the site every day waiting with great anticipation as to when the new 4 stroke killer, which would not only revive the proud Maico name, but 2 strokes themselves would be released.
The end of the year got closer but again no pics of the actual bikes, just more talk of things to come.
I remember the day the website changed once more. At first I figured the actual bike had been released, then became very disappointed as it just seemed like a change for the sake of it.
Then we waited some more.... No doubt many of us felt a bit comforted (but a little surprised) when Maico released a statement saying that they would buck the trend by actually releasing their bikes at the start of the year (rather than 4 months early), and if nothing else it gave a small company (who were no doubt facing many issues) some more time.
Fair enough, I mean, why release a 2011 model before the new years ticks over, their explanation although convenient did seem logical.
Ok, no problem, lets wait for the new year. Drumroll please.......
One of the first things I did on January the 1st was check the Maico site, again quite surprised nothing had changed. Only days away, surely! Yes, I am happy to admit now I am a massive fan, which is why these delays and lack of pictures and clarification make things very frustrating.
The days rolled on, days turned into weeks, which of course turned into months.
Press releases got less and less frequent and from early January (when the bike was supposed to be release) we had to wait 2.5 months until we heard anything at all.
It is now Mid March, we are into the second season of the year and it is 6 months after the major manufacturers released their new years bikes. Maico are giving us nothing, in fact all we have is people like John making smiley faces about what he knows and what we don't.
Well Maico International, if your aim was to annoy people and have loyal fans lose respect for what you attempting to do, you have succeeded. Proper release dates would have been nice, if that was too difficult then at least an honest explanation as to what was happening (and why there have been so many delays) would have been appreciated.
Instead we had a period when we expected the bike to be released (Dec 2010 to Feb 2011) where absolutely no information was given at all.
We are the fans, we are the nice yet at the moment it seems we are being taken for fools.
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Although many are annoyed that they are unable to purchase the best dirt-bike in the world, there is some relief in the fact that the second-best dirtbike in the world, is still widely available. ;)
(http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/1981_maico_490_gm.jpg)
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I can agree with that.
Until they get their act together I'll just keep collecting the older iron, only going to appreciate with age anyway.
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As someone who has ridden and raced Maicos for almost two decades,Koestler Maicos the last 9 years,could someone please enlighten me as to when and how Maico International became the defacto manufacturers and global suppliers of this legendary marque?Please bear in mind that at this moment I can order a motorcycle from the German firm,a company that has ties to the brand that go back to the gearbox fiascos of 1983.
In their latest press release MI states that they ALMOST have possession of the Maico trademark ,a make that has "been defunct since 1999" and no mention is made of the Koestler Maicos they have been marketing the last few years and that have been in production since 1999.If MI is successful what follows next,a witch hunt to prevent Koestler,Maico Only and Wulfsport from using the name?
It is plain to see from forum communications that the questionable business practices of MI are upsetting more then a few Maico afficionados like myself.I don't think they have been honest in their quest to take control of the German marque and indeed bear more then a fleeting resemblance to the hollow hype of the Dutch Rodem days.I willingly acknowledge that Maico needs an infusion of technology and appreciate that firms such as Rodem and Maico International are willing to make that investment.What I don't need is the "Snake oil salesman" business ethics and practices that seem so prevalent these days.
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X2 on that.
I think they are having internet problems,
that's why they let others do the talking, in a mysterious way i should add.
The Maico International website hasn't changed.
And i thought those people have an account on this forum.
Why don't they speak for themselves? And let the interested fans know what's going on...
I know 2 guys wich were really interested in these (possibly) great bikes!
They both waited till the beginning of this month.
Both have now given up the wait.
One ordered a new GasGas 300EC, the other just picked up a slighty used 2009 TM300.
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Agreed.The US borders have been all but closed to trade in the last couple years.Just ask the Chinese. ::)
Some people don't get you sarcasm ford. ;)
Notice the wink. :P
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If they made Maicos in the jungles of Colombia there wouldn't be any problem getting them over the border! You might have to hose off some of the mysterious white powder before riding it, though.
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Such hostility... honestly I'm surprised...
Have any of you called or written to Maico International about your concerns? Have you contacted Rich Winkler from Dirt Wurx if you live in the states and want a Maico? Have you contacted Koestler in Germany?
Because from some of the questions stated here, Maico International should run their business the way you see fit. Some of what was written on this thread is very destructive. I thought we were all two-stroke lovers and wanted to see more manufacturers, not less... maybe I'm wrong...
For those that say there are no photos of the new Maico, have you become a fan of Maico International on Facebook? If so, you may have seen this photo taken on Thursday with a cell phone....
(http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af58/Two_Stroke_Motocross/Maico-2011.jpg)
But I'm sure there will be all kinds of speculation and additional negativity no matter what is shown.
Like I said there's more to this story. A big monkey wrench was thrown into the works in late December. This has been the biggest setback...
But just a little question for you... who thinks Koestler ever owned the Maico brand name?
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John it's great to see you still around here!!!! You're awesome....people will eat words :-* we're planning a tsm ride day at budds creek soon...you should come down!!!
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Thanks Dirty Girl.
I can't believe I'm so riled up... but I have a bunch more to say, but I'll start another thread for that one.
Please let me know when you have the date set for the ride day, I'd love to come down and take photos.
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One must distinguish between what is destructive and what is the truth,however hard it may be to hear.I repeat,who said Maicos are now made in England when I can purchase a Maico made in Germany by Koestler?When the gentleman in South Africa purchased his used 700 Maico and requested information about the bike why was it that members of this site informed him of the existence of Koestler Maico (indeed the company that made his motorcycle)?This information apparently was not forthcoming from Maico International.
I suspect legal battles are "abrewing" and MI's frantic search for ownership of the Maico trademark will be related to this quagmire.I honestly believe that MI misjudged the depth of loyalty that Maico owners display towards their steeds and they may have already shot themselves in the foot.I myself will take my business else where.
All we ask for,if I my speak on behalf of fellow members,is a little honesty, a commodity that apparently is in short supply when dealing with MI.And yes,I have contacted Koestler Maico. :-[
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Strange as it may seem, there are no "legal" battles brewing. The Maico trademark ownership is known and it's not by whom many people think.
Maico International began as a distributor of Maico motorcycles. Vince cares about the brand and has a passion to see it grow and for R&D to be invested in the machine.
The machines that Koestler sells are from the parts that he purchased way back when. Nothing has changed on those machines. Yes you can still buy them.
The machines that you can buy from Maico International are updated in many ways, with options to customize the machine they way that you like it.
Rich Winkler is the US Distributor for Maioc International. Do you really think that he would sign an agreement without knowing what's important?
You say that there is no honesty when dealing with MI. Could you please explain that in a little more detail? For instance did you contact them and they were not honest with you? Just curious.
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While the changes have not been major Koestler has been updating the Maicos he sells.One could argue that the changes to Gas Gas 2Ts have not been major since their inception circa 1998/1999.As well,I cannot comment on Rich Winkler as I do not know the man.
I am first to admit that I am guilty of a lack of communication with Maico International but at this stage of the game I have no desire to correspond with them.
All I'm asking for is transparency,precisely when and how did MI become Maico?Surely the the people at MI would have come to some kind of agreement with Koestler before declaring themselves the owners of the brand known as Maico and we would not have the make being simultaneously manufactured by two different companies in two different countries.
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SachGS - It's not that I don't understand your concerns, because I do understand.
Even though we see things differently, I appreciate that we remained respectful during our interchange.
As for Rich Winkler, he currently owns a company called Dirt Wurx. His company builds the Supercross tracks for Pro racing. Also does the tracks for Monster trucks.
Check out his web site.
http://www.dirtwurx.com/ (http://www.dirtwurx.com/)
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I was really looking forward to the new maicos
and did try to contact mi but did not get a answer.
since the season is just starting. if i had waited for a maico i would been whitout a bike
and now the money i save is spent on another brand.
what i am saying the longer they wait the more look for other brands
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John,I have always had the utmost respect for you and TSM. ;D
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Agreed.The US borders have been all but closed to trade in the last couple years.Just ask the Chinese. ::)
Some people don't get you sarcasm ford. ;)
Notice the wink. :P
As always,my wit and wisdom are under appreciated ;D
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It is odd John you are suggesting the members questioning MI are the ones out of line here, yet it seems we all feel the same way ( in that many of us are frustrating).
I have contacted Axel Kostler, as I have bought a few parts from him over the last 18 months and did contact MI some time back, and received a response which was appreciated.
The issue we have is simple, we waited with great anticipation for the new bikes (which it was clearly implied would be released early in the new year), we are now almost in April, yet they aren't ready and we have heard nothing.
John, I have a few questions for you.
Do you think MI should let potential buyers know what is going on?
Do you think it is fair that we expect this to come in the way of a press release given it appears it is their preferred mode of communication?
Can you appreciate why people are dissapointed the release of these bikes are so late?
The way I am reading your posts it is as if companies such as MI have no obligation to the people who follows their progress, those same people who will end up being potential buyers.
As for MI running the business the way some of us see fit, it may come as a surprise that some of the members here run very successful business, and thus see the need for companies to be up front with customers and that their is an expectation that customers demand a certain level of service (which in this case is the desire for information).
A press release late December letting everyone know there had been some delays (after they encountered the mysterious problems) but they were still on track would have been very simple and would have made the world of difference to peoples attitudes.
Sure some people would still be frustrated but I am sure most of us would feel a lot better as we are being kept in the loop.
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1) Maico International makes claims about the new bike which they anticipate to be ready in early 2011.
2) Everyone gets all excited.
3) Something happens, causing a major delay from Maico Int'l.
4) Time comes for the bike to be released. Bike is not released. No information is given.
5) Disappointed observers/customers begin rabbling on forum.
6) John, who apparently has inside knowledge, assures forum that things are being worked on. Details are vague.
7) Forum continues rabbling.
This is my interpretation of the series of events that's gone on so far. Now here's my recommendation. I say everyone should just shut the hell up about this whole thing, and let Maico International hammer out whatever needs to be hammered out. We will hear something eventually, and at that time, we can decide whether or not it made sense for them to act the way they have. For all we know, the CIA wants a fleet of Maico 700s to investigate terrorist activity on Mars; it wouldn't contradict any of the information we've received so far.
Right now, everyone who has inside information or is in the know, is either saying nothing, or only giving vague statements, but remain on MI's side. Almost everyone who isn't on the inside, and doesn't have any inside information, is gathering at the gate with torches and pitchforks. Now I don't know about you, but that indicates to me that whatever is going on to cause this delay, is heavy enough that it makes sense not to tell us at this point. What that could be, I have no idea, and I'm therefore not going to pass judgement on it until I actually know what happened. John appears to still be on Maico's side, and I don't see any reason he would be if it appeared to him that these people were truly doing something malicious or horribly incompetent, and right now his word is practically all I have to go on. Until we get more information, all we can do is make wild guesses about what's actually going on, or admit agnosticism for the moment.
All that said, I'll be interested to hear precisely what was so god damned important that it could've caused all this.
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I was quite interested when all this first came about on here.I've always been a sucker for something different and happen to like euro stuff.I had one of the first KTM's and Husabergs in this area-at a time when people would look at them and say"What the H is that?"
I was leaning towards a TM before the Maico info started trickling down the pipe but then thought maybe I'd get one of these instead.
With various companies seeming to own Maico and/or selling or distributing various versions of it coupled with the lack of info about MI's bike leaves me thinking that things are too disorganized or secretive for my liking or my ability to trust what they say down the road had I bought one.Naturally,they can do whatever they like and owe nobody anything until they release it but that's the end for me and I wouldn't touch one now with a 10 ft pole.One customer lost.My next will likely be a TM.
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Do you think MI should let potential buyers know what is going on?
Do you think it is fair that we expect this to come in the way of a press release given it appears it is their preferred mode of communication?
Can you appreciate why people are dissapointed the release of these bikes are so late?
The simple answer to your question is YES. Because honestly I feel it's important as well.
It's true that Vince and I are friends but we don't always agree on how to handle certain situations. At the same time, I respect him and his take on how to handle his business.
What I have a problem with is nearly slanderous statements from my friends on here when all the information has not been made public. It's not that he is being secretive, but careful about the information he releases. This is damaging to all involved.
Believe me, I'd love for the information to be released immediately just as all of you do.
As for the bikes any of you choose to buy, I would never under any circumstance interfere with that. It's a completely personal.
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All John is saying is that we are all entitled to our opinion, and we have the freedom to express that, but sometimes it is expressed in very negative ways. He understands why you are disappointed or frustrated, and why you are saying the things you are, but he know from personal preference that it really won't help the situation much if you keep expressing your opinions the way you are doing right now. There is a difference from slanderous comments and constructiveness. Correct me if I'm wrong...
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I think that people have a right to ask questions.
Maico International have made a lot of statements about their doings and the future of Maicos, garnering a lot of interest.
They don't deliver on what they have lead people to think is going to happen.
Well, that's not at all unusual, it happens.
They have no obligation to give Exact details of what is happening, and, indeed, when it comes to the legal process, that is a very unwise thing to do.
But they have not handled it particularly well. They should have put out (if they did, I missed it) a reasonably clear statement, saying there were problems / negotiations, whatever wording suits, on their website, and by press release, and updated them. ***There's The Key - Updating Information***. That would have lessened the confusion / backlash that has arisen around the current set backs. It would have been wise to have put in as much effort with allaying potential customers concerns as they made with extolling the things to come, earlier on.
With respect, John, putting in cryptic comments that you knew what was going on, made things worse, and drew you into the maelstrom. You then become, to quite a few, the 'talking head' with regards to MI, however incorrect that may be. I feel for you sport, but you drew fire down on yourself. MI should be the ones dealing with potential customers concerns. You should have left your friend Vince to deal with this.
This is a site, created by you, John, that celebrates the 2t. And it's a great one. So, it is a great site to promote an upcoming 2t on, which MI did. Thus creating significant interest. There are a fair few people that peruse this site, that are potential customers, be they former (or current) Maico owners, or those that may well end up being a New Maico owner.
Just from the evidence of the dissapointment / disillusionment amongst Maico devotees on this site, one can see the damage being done to MI's business and reputation.
John, it's noble to defend a friend, but in this sort of matter, it's a precarious thing to do. It would have been wiser to leave him to do so, if he saw fit to do so.
As for things being said being 'near slanderous', well, being slanderous is the thing that courts decide. Near slanderous, is not a concrete thing - it's the 'near slandered' individuals take on it. For others, it will be regarded as valid opinions. I've been caught up in some legal difficulties, that were found in my favour, but in the process, I learned to be very careful with what I wrote , or said - it's a nasty business, the law.
I'm a former Maico owner, of an age that can recall the glory years of Maico. And, I have the money to spend on a bike that will, undoubtedly, be a pricey thing. But, with all the various PR releases, that really showed buggerall, with respect to the 'great things to come' for 2011, and the ill handling of the delays, I will be holding back from voting with my dollar, when, and if, MI come out with a bike. I find myself, having gone from being an eager and expectant buyer of MIs products, to being one that is now going to sit back and see if they can be a long term business. And I've Never been a 'fence sitter' before. If enough devoted Maico people have been influenced by all this to elect for my option, it would represent a big loss to Maico International, with regards to bike sales.
I'd dearly love to have my fears and thoughts allayed as to Maicos future, but I won't hold my breathe.
But I fervently, and truly, hope I'm made to look like a doubting Thomas, as soon as possible.
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Now I am lost.I haven't seen any comment here from myself or others that I'd consider even remotely slanderous-unless my understanding of the word isn't what it should be.Maybe it's not our place to question those so high above us in both intelligence and knowledge.In the future I resolve to do my best to keep my opinions and questions to myself-lest I unnecessarily offend one of my betters and be accused of slanderous intent. :-X
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I thought it was helping the situation, could be wrong...
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1100/1148735456_0ddf2906e7.jpg?v=0)
Stuck my foot in my mouth yet again! :o
If I redirected the Maico wrath to myself because of what I wrote about this subject... well that's fine. If I was really concerned with what others thought, I would never post on the Internet. ;D ;D
Maybe slanderous was the wrong word to use. My comments were not meant to chastise or stop any and all comments, I meant to say that some of what had been written was wrong, negative and less than helpful. Some of it appeared to be a roast of MI.
As mentioned before the criteria you use to choose a bike is yours.
Ford, please don't take this as an attack on you. Clearly if you have questions, ask. My only suggestion is to ask those who can answer those questions...
(ex.) When I have a question for the Governor of NY the only way to get the answer is to write to him, not post it on a forum. When posted on a forum, even if you know that person sometimes reads that forum, comes across as calling someone out. This is the biggest reason that nearly every Pro Motocross racer who starts posting on a forum ends up stopping. It's frustrating, because if you don't answer every single "call out" the rest of the rank and file jump onboard and start talking crap about them. A real lose-lose situation.
It's awesome that we can talk about this stuff, whether we agree or not and be civilized about it. Never mentioned that everyone had to believe and agree with me, just that there might be more to the story.
Thanks!
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I didn't take it as an attack on me John.After rereading my own,it occurs to me maybe the wording isn't what it should be.
I look at forums as "discussion" vehicles and see nothing wrong with debating people,companies,politicians or whatever.Admittedly,I never contacted MI but others here who did got little in the way of info-which,of course,is their choice.
If for instance,I wanted to give my opinion of JS7 I would,as would others without contacting him directly as I'm sure you know how far that would get you.Without people posting their opinions,there would be little need for this "forum" or any other for that matter.
The gist of my previous post is that I have a problem when I'm told some areas of discussion are out of bounds or some people,companies etc are above being questioned by the great unwashed masses.When the average guy feels unable to freely give his reasonable opinion on any topic for fear of legal reprisals or worse,all is lost.
Da Comrades? :)