Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: JohnN on January 08, 2010, 08:09:27 PM
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In order to bring you an unbiased opinion on this bike, I asked my friend Mike Leavitt to try out the bike and give his thoughts on the bike. What I didn't know was that Mike was bringing his friend Paul Sanders to videotape and interview him!
Just got a call a few minutes ago from Mike telling me to check out the video... here you go!
First Look- 2010 TM 125 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNbvr9rBq_Y#ws)
I shot some photos of the bike before it was ridden on Wednesday, check them out!
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Right_View_CU_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Upper_Fork_Leg_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/V-ForceReeds_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Rear_Sprocket_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Rear_Hub_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Left_Engine_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Front_Wheel_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Front_Hub_CU_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Front_Brake_2010_TM125.jpg)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy137/TM_Racing_Motorcycles/2010%20TM%20Racing%20125%20MX%20Photos/Countershaft_sprocket_2010_TM125.jpg)
The readers of this forum get this stuff before the readers of the main site, where this will be published sometime over the weekend... more to come!
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they're a great bike for sure, you should try the 300.
As your 2010 is essentially the same as my 08 i'm wondering whether you have some of the same issues i had. I still haven't come to grips with the Marzocchi's, find them far to stiff in the initial stroke.
Check where your carb meet's your airbox mine was a mile out and i've radiused the carb bellmouth. Match porting was also required at the carb, boot, reed cage join.
Check this forum, i've got some pics up on it.
http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php (http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php)
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NICE!!!!! :P Now you have to polish her back up. :D
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they're a great bike for sure, you should try the 300.
As your 2010 is essentially the same as my 08 i'm wondering whether you have some of the same issues i had. I still haven't come to grips with the Marzocchi's, find them far to stiff in the initial stroke.
Check where your carb meet's your airbox mine was a mile out and i've radiused the carb bellmouth. Match porting was also required at the carb, boot, reed cage join.
Check this forum, i've got some pics up on it.
http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php (http://www.tm-racing.co.nz/forum/index.php)
Thanks for the pointers.....
While you can get a great initial impression of a bike by getting a chance to try it before you buy it, they all need some work to get them set up. For the forks, have you backed off in a big way on the compression damping? Also from what I have read they change the Marzocchi forks on the bikes, maybe sourced different ones? These are the Shiver forks....
Mike had been sponsored by Marzoocki a few years back and is very familiar with them. Plus he rides very hard and this bike seems to respond to very aggressive riding.
Actually that's a great point, if you are a beginner or novice, this bike is probably not for you. A few other guys rode it, they were a bit uncomfortable because they got off their bikes and rode this afterwords. So they were a bit tentative with it.
One racer Devin, gave it a try and he came back saying that he had a 2005 KX125 full Pro Circuit motor set up and the TM was way faster than his... the TM is stock from the factory.
The other comment mentioned by almost everyone is that the bike has almost zero low end, and not much in the way of mid-range, but it screams up top!! Because of this I would only recommend this machine to someone that can handle all that power, be aggressive on the track and have the skills to dance on the shift lever. This bike is not for everyone!!
When I spoke to the distributor to tell him our experience, he said, "You thought the bike was fast? It really doesn't get fast until you run 2 or 3 tank fulls of fuel through it." We'll definitely report back on this!
As for the internals, we'll get to that. I want to ride it stock until it needs a set of rings, then we'll tear down the engine and take photos. Anything like what you mention will be pointed out.
The bike does draw a real crowd... it's certainly stands out from the crowd! Of course it will look like new when it goes out again!!
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Sweet,thanks for the report.GD I love those bikes.Still,in a way you should be ashamed of yourself for getting it dirty.Maybe the trick is to buy two.That way you could ride one and display the other in your living room :)
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Yeah, they're definitely not a beginners bike but i don't think thats the problem i'm having with the forks being to stiff for my skill level. If i back the compression off to get some plushness in the initial stroke they bottom on the big hits. I suspect they need more oil in the inner rubber bladder.
Other things i came across were the bottom chain roller doesn't line up and the shock linkage fouls slightly at full compression. there are a few other little things that needed done, i'll post some pics of mine
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As for the internals, we'll get to that. I want to ride it stock until it needs a set of rings, then we'll tear down the engine and take photos. Anything like what you mention will be pointed out.
Take lots and lots of pics. Pics of the porting, power valve, piston, head, and into the crankcase. I want to see what makes this little baby tick!! 8)
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John! I am thinking about buying the 250cc from TM..after watching the video...I am really impressed by the look and the goodies on the bike...Who should I contact to get the baby? Where are they located in Canada?Thanks! There is a motorcycle show upcoming next week-end. I hope they gonna be there so I can sit on it!
Fred
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Now you can see why the big 5 love the production rule, visually. If TM, Gas Gas, Husky and Maico were allowed to compete, who would lose? The big 5!!. People could see for themselves how the media has been undeservedly bashing euro bikes. All designed to help the big 5. Racers, riders and ultimately, the consumer would benefit from a rules change.
Write AMA, DMG, Davey Coomb and the big 5. Ask them what they are afraid of.
I mean really, should Roger Decoster, Mitch Payton, Keith McCarty and the rest of the team managers be scared if any of the above named brands showed up at a SX or MX race?? They shouldn't be...but they are. And we are the ultimate losers :'(
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Hey Fred, where in Canada are you located?? The North American distributor is located in BC, near Vancouver.. probably will not be at the motorcycle show. Give the distributor a call, his name is Dan Barker, please tell him that John from Two Stroke Motocross sent you!! :D
Hey Mad, it's the homologation rules that eliminate the European manufacturers. And yes they are afraid, because they would have to compete against formidable opponents.
And like anything, the Big 4 (or 5) are looking for every advantage to promote their sales. If they can insinuate that the other manufacturers products are less than theirs, they win. It's marketing, mixed with the fact that most people want to be a part of the "in crowd"... to buy something exotic or different is seen in a bad light...
Too bad, they are missing out on some very interesting machines and innovations.
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Now you can see why the big 5 love the production rule, visually. If TM, Gas Gas, Husky and Maico were allowed to compete, who would lose? The big 5!!. People could see for themselves how the media has been undeservedly bashing euro bikes. All designed to help the big 5. Racers, riders and ultimately, the consumer would benefit from a rules change.
Write AMA, DMG, Davey Coomb and the big 5. Ask them what they are afraid of.
I mean really, should Roger Decoster, Mitch Payton, Keith McCarty and the rest of the team managers be scared if any of the above named brands showed up at a SX or MX race?? They shouldn't be...but they are. And we are the ultimate losers :'(
All that I can say is WOW! I knew before that the big four controlled the AMA, but, I didn't think they had this much power. I don't agree with this at all, i think that any bike, whether that be a bicycle with a 125cc two stroke motor in it should be allowed to race. I mean, they have classes, any bike that fits that class description should be able to race. The AMERICAN motorcycle association is being controlled by the JAPANESE! What are these guys afraid of, the Japanese companies are HUGE, they have so much money at their disposal to make an amazing factory bike, and they still won't allow tiny companies like TM to race, WOW! Maybe, what it comes down to ist that these companies don't want the general public to see these bike even at a race, otherwise people will see that there are other options, and that the other options, are better quality and better value... We NEED that new race series QUICK!
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Wowsers,as I was watching it again I could have sworn I heard him say.....then I backed it up to listen again....sure enough...."it jumps just like a Chinese bike" :o I guess he didn't like it.... :D
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Wowsers,as I was watching it again I could have sworn I heard him say.....then I backed it up to listen again....sure enough...."it jumps just like a Chinese bike" :o I guess he didn't like it.... :D
Hey Ford... yes he does say Chinese bike in the video..... much have read something in the paper about China that morning with his coffee. ;D ;D
Honestly I called him up this morning and asked him about it (because this issue was posted on another message board) he made a mistake and apologized for making the mistake. Shit happens! :-[
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Hahaha.Tell him he's fired :D
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I'd like to know 2 things. How much experience he has had with euro bikes before this test. And, (since I don't jump), what does he mean when he says "jumps like a japanese bike" (I know he said chinese, but I figured he meant japanese 8)...this is what happens when you put beer on your Corn Flakes every day for an extended time period) :o. I'd like to know the differences.
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Having had 3 euro bikes I'd assume he was talking more about the landing.All mine tended to be harsh,almost like the tubes bound on impact.My SX I got in the habit of landing front wheel first.Even a slight slap down felt like they were solid and you took the rest through your wrists and elbows.
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I'd like to know 2 things. How much experience he has had with euro bikes before this test. And, (since I don't jump), what does he mean when he says "jumps like a japanese bike" (I know he said chinese, but I figured he meant japanese 8)...this is what happens when you put beer on your Corn Flakes every day for an extended time period) :o. I'd like to know the differences.
Mike was sponsored by KTM for a year or two... and he loved them. He is also very open minded about bikes and tries them before he makes comments on them. He has ridden Maicos, I believe a 1981 250. He also has had the opportunity to ride a few factory bikes over the years.
Currently he is riding a YZ250 two stroke in the 450F class in which he won the loacl number #1 plate. And he is riding a YZF250 in the 250F class, which is why I wanted him to try the TM 125. He really dislikes the four stroke an would prefer a two stroke, so we'll see how he does on that.
To answer the second question about jumping I just called Mike.. he said some of the Austrian bikes are a bit weight forward, the TM is not. He means that there is no adjustment needed in your riding style. And that the bike doesn't feel "weird".
Hope that answers your questions!
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I'd like to know 2 things. How much experience he has had with euro bikes before this test. And, (since I don't jump), what does he mean when he says "jumps like a japanese bike" (I know he said chinese, but I figured he meant japanese 8)...this is what happens when you put beer on your Corn Flakes every day for an extended time period) :o. I'd like to know the differences.
Mike was sponsored by KTM for a year or two... and he loved them. He is also very open minded about bikes and tries them before he makes comments on them. He has ridden Maicos, I believe a 1981 250. He also has had the opportunity to ride a few factory bikes over the years.
Currently he is riding a YZ250 two stroke in the 450F class in which he won the loacl number #1 plate. And he is riding a YZF250 in the 250F class, which is why I wanted him to try the TM 125. He really dislikes the four stroke an would prefer a two stroke, so we'll see how he does on that.
To answer the second question about jumping I just called Mike.. he said some of the Austrian bikes are a bit weight forward, the TM is not. He means that there is no adjustment needed in your riding style. And that the bike doesn't feel "weird".
Hope that answers your questions!
Don't you have the 250/250 rule at the amateur level where you live, couldn't he race his yz250 in the 250f class? and if he can't, what about the TM 144, I was actually considering buying the tm 144, there was a 2008 for sale around here, I think it was for like 3500 or 4000
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Unfortunately in our area they are sticking to the same rules as AMA Pro Racing. My local area is not AMA sanctioned, so they have their own set of rules.. believe me, they are sick and tired of hearing me talk about two-strokes!! ;D ;D
So to answer your question, here the 250F races the 125cc two-stroke, except that in the class you can also race a 144cc two-stroke, which almost negates the 125... then the 250 two stroke races against the 450F four-stroke.
I didn't want to get a 144cc because of a few reasons, but mainly because I'm trying to get everyone involved in racing 125's, which I think are a great transition between the mini ranks and the big bikes. Plus last year I got our race organization to add a 125cc two-stroke class... if I got a bike that didn't fit in that class I'd be... well let's just say that I wouldn't be very popular on race day!! :'( :'(
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Now you can see why the big 5 love the production rule, visually. If TM, Gas Gas, Husky and Maico were allowed to compete, who would lose? The big 5!!. People could see for themselves how the media has been undeservedly bashing euro bikes. All designed to help the big 5. Racers, riders and ultimately, the consumer would benefit from a rules change.
Write AMA, DMG, Davey Coomb and the big 5. Ask them what they are afraid of.
I mean really, should Roger Decoster, Mitch Payton, Keith McCarty and the rest of the team managers be scared if any of the above named brands showed up at a SX or MX race?? They shouldn't be...but they are. And we are the ultimate losers :'(
TMracing also make a fourstroke range which they race in MXGP. They are also THE force to be reckoned with in supermoto, having won several world championships (with the 4T unfortunately).
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The small TM Racing factory also posted some good results in the ISDE. Rodrig Thain winning the E-2 class on a TM 450F, Michal Kadlecek winning the C-3 class on a 300 EN two-stroke and Luca Cherubini winning the C-2 Class on a 250 EN two-stroke.
This is amazing when you see how many racers and different brands of bikes that compete in the six day event.
Then in MX1 Grand Prix Aigar Leok finished 12th overall after missing 6 rounds of the series due to injury.
Not bad for a relatively unknown brand here in the USA.
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John,are the 2010 Tm's available in the states yet?I have ridden an 03 125,250,and 300 with the steel frame and they are one of the nicest handling motorcyles i have ever riddenThe front end would stick in a corner like it was on rails.I am a big guy fairly agressive A rider and that 125 pulled me with no problem.Would love to try a 2010.for that matter would like to try a Gas Gas and the new Maico's also.
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offroader - Yes the TM's are available in the states. Where are you located? Maybe you could take a test ride?
Still waiting to hear from Rich Winkler (new Maico distributor) when he will be ordering some bikes... once I hear I'll post on here when there will be test rides on the Maico.
Sorry, but I don't know the Gas Gas guys...