Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Non-Moto => Topic started by: ford832 on February 14, 2011, 11:36:29 AM
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.....what would you take from each to make your ideal bike.For instance,in my case......
I'd take the chassis of my 99 RM 125 mated to the engine of my 2002 KTM125SX.Along with that,I'd have a toggle on the bars so I could instantly change the engine characteristics to that of my present 2002 YZ250 for torque situations. Also,as much as I may hate to admit it(nah,not really)I'd have another switch to change the engine to that of my 2005 Husaberg FE550 for big power situations.I realize a 500 2t would suit the bill but as I said-bikes you've actually owned-not wanted or just ridden.Besides,55 hp,6spd,160 kph top speed IS fun on a dirt bike at times-regardless of engine configuration. :)
Now I just need to figure out the build :D
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A atc250r non-powervalve motor in my kdx chassis. ;D
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That is the premise for the "One Motorcycle Show".
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The one motorcycle show?
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This is from another thread:
http://theonemotorcycleshow.com/ (http://theonemotorcycleshow.com/)
The ONE Motorcycle Show (Portland, OR) 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KPTAlv5Sl4#ws)
Essentially, this is a show where motorcycle builders showed up. A lot of the bikes there were kind of home made. They say that once you been making motorcycles a while you eventuallly make your "one" bike that has everything you want. That's kind of the premise of the show. However, they also just had bikes there that "had a good story" I guess. The oldest bike was a steam engine bike.
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Cooooolllll.I see a ton of stuff there I'd like to have. 8)
For me though,I know it's impossible to have the perfect bike that does everything I want it to do when I want it to do it-hence my magic bar switches :)
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Honestly in 31 years of riding, my KDX really has an engine that makes me smile. I don't know why I waited so long to buy one. If I could take one of the more modern 125 chassis I have owned (YZ125 was my favorite) and stuff this engine in there, it would be the prefect bike for me.
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Surely you saw this coming ford. ;)
Give me the power of a 450, the weight of a 250 2 stroke, an adjustable power valve, steel perimeter frame, Ohlins suspension and I would have my dream bike.
It's called a TM 300. ;D
Seriously it does everthing I want.
I can see myself in a few years when I slow down I'll be doing what coop said.
KDX engine in a 125 frame.
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I can see myself in a few years when I slow down I'll be doing what coop said.
KDX engine in a 125 frame.
A KDX eh?Well TMKIWI,hopefully it will be a few years yet before you slow down that much-Bwahahahahaha.
Seriously,I've never been satisfied with anything.It takes me about 3 yrs to get any bike to as close to perfect for me as it can be-then I sell it-or,as my wife says,"once you can't think of anything else to fix,you get bored and go buy another one-you're such a retard"
Pbbffttt,women.The YZ is at this point now but I don't have the usual desire to sell simply because my daughter keeps me hopping so much I don't get to ride as much as I used to so when I do,I just ride and enjoy it-it's still not perfect though-even though it's a YZ :D
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There's really nothing slow about a nicely tuned KDX engine. It's the chassis that makes it a bit of a slug.
I'm also about the KDX engine in a kx125 chassis
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I didn't mean to say KDX's are slow.
Just that a 200 is more managable then a 300.
My bike doesn't like going slow, so when I finish scareing myself a nice KDX hybrid will be the deal.
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Surely you saw this coming ford. ;)
Give me the power of a 450, the weight of a 250 2 stroke, an adjustable power valve, steel perimeter frame, Ohlins suspension and I would have my dream bike.
It's called a TM 300. ;D
Seriously it does everthing I want.
I can see myself in a few years when I slow down I'll be doing what coop said.
KDX engine in a 125 frame.
Definitely agree with that, wouldn't change a thing on my bike, best bike i've ever had or ridden.
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When coop first posted the link to the KDX site,I went over and registered so I could have a look at the "hybrids"
Keeping in mind the fact that I have reasonably extensive experience with a 220 my bro in law bought new and I modified for him-I have a good idea how they run and can be made to run.
Anyhoo,my first thought with the hybrids was: that's a pretty cool,easily done project that gives the best of both worlds.
After a little more thought it occurred to me-why would you bother?
There is nothing magical in a KDX engine other than fact that it is an ordinary,everyday,older 2t engine done as a woods/trail set up-which is what makes it such a good woods bike.
I've always liked 125's and what I really liked about my 02 SX was the fact it had a full sized chassis.The japanese downsized them previously and KTM followed suit in 03.Though I'm only 5'10",I find most of the more "modern" ones squishy.Previously,the only real difference in a 125 and 250 was the lower cradle but I guess the theory was to cater to a smaller rider coming up from an 80.
It's sometimes hard to get more power but it reasonably easy to get less and adjust the delivery to your liking-regardless of what you ride.
If I was a Kawi fan(insert shudder here ;D ),I'd take a KX250 and detune it to replicate the KDX engine.This would give a better balanced bike with a manageable engine and modern day ergo's and suspension.
In the case of my YZ,I loved it on the track but found it was too abrupt in the low speed greasy,rooty,rocky goo.A twitch of the throttle in this stuff had the rear wheel lighting up and spinning sideways.
For me,the solution was to use a dial gauge in the plug hole to ck the stock timing(it was too far advanced due to production tolerances)and set it to what it should have been.After a little trial and error,I ended up setting it one degree retarded.
I also shaved down the ramp on the throttle(again,trial and error) so I have a longer pull but more importantly,it doesn't ramp up as quickly so is much more manageable off the bottom-but still has full power when you twist it open.
As it is,it suits me well.I could have added a flywheel weight as well but don't see the need and I wanted the quick snap when necessary for logs,rocks,etc.
You could also go with a thicker base gasket or double up(though this changes port timing-maybe good,maybe bad depending)play with squish,higher tension reeds,power valve adjustments,bigger carb,different exhaust,flwheel weights etc.
The bottom line is,it's all easily done and will make a much more rideable bike-and you won't have the "gooberiness" of a hybrid.
As I said,I still think a KDX engine in a 125 chassis is a cool project-just rather pointless.
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Part of your problem is basing your judgement on the 220. The 200 is a considered a better engine with more top end than the 220 actually. Most KDX enthusiasts agree they would take a 200 over a 220. I have owned KX250's and trust me the KDX200 is a far better woods engine than the KX250, even with extensive work. I am not talking racing, I am talking trail riding. The chassis is the weak link. Overly soft suspension, conventional forks with too much under-hang, "heavy" feeling for a 200, etc. So putting the engine in a 125 chassis you get a bike more inline with the KTM. But just not as high strung as the KTM200. That is preferable to some trail riders, obviously given the popularity of the hybrid builds. :)
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I agree that a KDX is a better woods engine but I simply can't see why the same thing can't be done with any 250 2t engine-especially where it is done all the time.
My understanding from way back when with the KDX's was that the 220 had a slightly larger bore(the rest is virtually identical) but that the difference in the top end is all carburetor-not the engine.
The 220 had a smaller carb than the 200-hence,more bottom and less top.
My 125 had a 39mm and if I remember correctly(probably not)my bro in laws 220 had a 36mm.
I'd be willing to bet if you swapped carbs on a 200 and 220 you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.
On his,once you got it tapped out,you could feel it hanging up.No amount of jetting will cure it is it simply isn't flowing enough at this point.
In his case,and as far as I'm concerned,it's irrelevant because it had such a good bottom end and in the woods,when's the last time you got a bike tapped out in 5th?
I understand what you're saying but a 250 will give you all the attributes you want and a full sized chassis to boot.
The only reason I can see for doing the hybrid is from a sense of emotional attachment to the KDX-or just for something to do in a cool project/improve your current bike sort of way.
I guarantee that if you sent me a KX250 of your liking with your visa # I could set it up to suit you even better than the hybrid and for less $$ than having to buy two bikes.
If I was feeling in a generous mood,I might even send it back after I was done :D ;)
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I am pretty good at bike set up and can handle setting my own bikes up, thanks though :).
You are correct some of the 220 problem was the carb. It has a 33mm carb versus the 35mm of the 200. Ron Black stays busy with his KDX carb and head mods.
One thing you are overlooking is that IF you did want to race, a hybrid can still be run in the 200 class. That is important to some folks. But I don't why I am trying to justify hybrids to you, it is meaningless to me if you like them or not LO :P. I do agree with you that for many you can probably just buy and mod a current bike that will suit your needs just as well or better than building a hybrid. I think the only way I would build one is if I find a 125 basketcase or roller cheap cheap cheap. Last year a 2001 KX125 roller went for $200 locally. Something like that. Any more than that and I won't even consider it.
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If it's a race class you're trying to get into,I can see it,though you stated previously it was all about trail riding.
As for it being meaningless to you whether I like it or not-that's just wrong.It should mean EVERYTHING to you whether I like it or not :D
Seriously,I never said I didn't like it-just that I don't see the point.That said,I've pursued many pointless activities in my life too ;D ;)
One deficiency I see with the hybrid as compared to a KTM is fuel capacity.If I remember from my reading over there,an oversize tank isn't something that can be done on the hybrid conversion..
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I'm telling you guys, you really need to invest in Gold Valves for those KDX's. those with the proper springs for your weight will make you forget about all the work involved in putting that motor in a 125 chassis. They are the KDX Holy Grail.
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As for it being meaningless to you whether I like it or not-that's just wrong.It should mean EVERYTHING to you whether I like it or not :D
:D ;D
MycK, I know they are good. The problem with the KDX forks is how far they hang under the axles. I don't know about in Florida, but here in SW PA, the ruts are deep and often full of either rocks or roots. A bad combo. I would still like to do some suspension work to the stock suspension when/if I ever get any spare cash.
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I have had a KTM 200 and they do not have the bottom end like a KDX.
Yes they have way more peak power but the power delivery is like a 125 on steroids.
Thats why i would pick the KDX motor for trail riding and woods riding.
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Myck, there are plenty of reasons to go to a 125 chassis.
1. Superior chassis.
2. Less weight, most important.
3. Better turning radius.
4. Modern suspension. Yes you can valve the cave man set up to work, but why would you want to?
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I have had a KTM 200 and they do not have the bottom end like a KDX.
Yes they have way more peak power but the power delivery is like a 125 on steroids.
Thats why i would pick the KDX motor for trail riding and woods riding.
Agree. I primarily ride a kdx200 or yz250, my buddy has a ktm200. While his bike is a blast to ride, it is indeed like a 125 on steroids for power delivery. The suspension is a bit harsh and difficult to dial in (pds crap), and the dang seat feels like a 2x4 up your butt. I get tired much sooner on the KTM. I do like riding it though. If I had my own 200/300EXC, I'm confident I could get it set up just right for me and would love it. I can't let go of my KDX though. On reliability it pwns the KTM.
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Nothing wrong with a KTM seat.Both the hardness and shape of my '00 and '02 were what taught me to ride standing up.Pain is a great motivator. :D
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You're right about the lower fork legs Coop. I suppose I haven't ridden the KDX enough to put that into consideration. We don't get alot of deep ruts in Florida do to the amount of sand and softness of the soil. But in Alabama and Mississippi the ruts can get pretty bad. Alternate line choices would solve the problem. :)
I am not, however, trying to deter anyone from, nor saying, converting a KDX into a modern KX chassis is a waste of time, stupid idea, etc. Just pointing out $500 vs. $3,000 + labor.
The stock KDX really isn't bad.
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I agree. Really doubt I will do much to mine other than ride it, and fix stuff as I get money. Which may be awhile the way things have been going.
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converting a KDX into a modern KX chassis is a waste of time, stupid idea, etc.
Agreed. :D
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Agreed again. I would love to upgrage from my Jeremy McGrath era YZ, but at 44 years old, is a new $9k 4st really going to make me competitive with James Stewart? At this point, I just want a bike that I can beat my 30 year old buddies with. I don't think it is a fuel-infected 4st.
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Personally,I don't actually think there's much difference in any 2t MX from the last 10 yrs or so.I always looked it at this way-if I can't ride the bike to it's potential(ie,there's not someone out there who could ride it faster)then the problem is with me,not the bike.That said,sometimes a better bike,suspension wise at least,will make you faster but so will a little more practice with what you've got now.
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Suspension, Suspension, Suspension, No.1 thing that will make you go faster.