Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: PhilR on February 03, 2011, 01:37:30 AM
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Just went to fill out the entry form for my first race of the new year,a two day open event held by the Maffra Sale club here in Victoria Australia.
Reading the sup regs I was dismayed to see that 250 two strokes are going to be allowed to run in the lites class with the 250 four strokes...but get this...they are not allowed to run in the big bike class with the fat heavy four stroke 450's :o
So now instead of being able to enter both classes I can only enter one with my YZ 250 and I may as well leave my 125 at home!! >:D >:D
The people wo run these things must be on drugs or something!
What in God's name could possibly be the point of not allowing 250 2 strokes in the big bike class??
Phil
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250 vs. 250 right?
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Indeed.
It's very logical, a 250cc bike should race in the 250 class.
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But it's not the 250 class it is called the "lites" class and has until now not been open to 250 two strokes..I dont really care about that though...I just dont want to have to buy a 450 so I can race in the big bike class..
Also it means there is now no point in having my 125..or the 144 kit I just bought for it..or the procircuit pipe etc etc >:(
The upside to this is that I utterly despise junior riders and thier parents ...It's gonna be fun watching a bunch of 16 year old 50kg bantam weight snot nose brats who get everything bought for them,line up on a 45 horse power bike fresh off thier 80's.. Cause once all the mini bike dads realise the 250 two strokes have around 10hp on the four strokes that's what's gonna happen...Should be carnage!!
Phil
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Hey Phil,
Slow down a bit. You can race your 250 two stroke in the big bike class if you want to. You are just not allowed to ride the one bike in both classes. That is why the rules read the way they do. And if you still want to race your 125 in the lites class, you can. No problems. And as for the juniors, they are not allowed to ride 250 two strokes in the lites class, the junior rules only allow 150cc two stroke and 250 four strokes. The big problem for the juniors is that they are allowed to ride the big heavy four stroke 250's. Australia has the best two stroke rules worldwide, you should be pumped the rules are the way they are, and are not in the big mess like they are in the states.
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If you want to ride in the 450 class get your self a TM or KTM 300.
I think your rules are the same as our's.
251cc and above for MX1. 2 or 4 stroke.
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Hey Phil,
Slow down a bit. You can race your 250 two stroke in the big bike class if you want to. You are just not allowed to ride the one bike in both classes
Correct that's what the Motorcycling Australia rules say,but the Maffra Sale club have bypassed those,there is a special higlighted stipulation in the regs that "two stroke 250's are only allowed to enter the lites class".
I rang the club secretary and she confirmed it..not allowed in the open class!!
I want to ride my 125 in the lites and the 250 in the opens,as per normal,but now I'm not allowed.Not with this club anyway.
Ramant stupidity!
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No, I agree. The "MX" class should be an open class. They're just depleting their entries by not allowing it. Their loss. Run an age class if you can. Vet class maybe. If you really want the race time that is. Good on ya.
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Just tell them it has been bore out to 265cc. So you wanted to do the right thing and ride with the bigger bikes. ;D
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Here's my 2 cents from what I've talked about with other racers my age. "we hate the idea of and open class" I've talked to several ppl about the idea of an open class and here's why. I look at the ama supercross/motocross as the top premiere level of dirt biking you can get to I really dont think ppl showing up on huge cc bikes to compete is a wise idea. If we think the injury rate is bad now, wait till some crazy a** shows up on that atk 700 lol. Now the current rules are no where near fair. If I were the big dog and called all the shots I would set it up like this:
MX1 limits 500 2stroke 530 4 stroke
MX2 250 class regardless of stroke
MX3 125 class
Single cylinder bikes only (sry aprilia)
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I think that the guys on the 450s don't want to get their asses handed to them by an outdated bike with less displacement than thier $10,000 state of the art timebombs.
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Here's my 2 cents from what I've talked about with other racers my age. "we hate the idea of and open class" I've talked to several ppl about the idea of an open class and here's why. I look at the ama supercross/motocross as the top premiere level of dirt biking you can get to I really dont think ppl showing up on huge cc bikes to compete is a wise idea. If we think the injury rate is bad now, wait till some crazy a** shows up on that atk 700 lol. Now the current rules are no where near fair. If I were the big dog and called all the shots I would set it up like this:
MX1 limits 500 2stroke 530 4 stroke
MX2 250 class regardless of stroke
MX3 125 class
Single cylinder bikes only (sry aprilia)
Well, I have the CR500AF, and I can tell you this. Anyone with a 700 2 stroke, knows they don't show up to race it. I''m not even sure I'd feel comfortable racing my 500. I am buying a KTM 380SX today maybe. I guess it is 368cc. I'm intersted in testing my theory. That around 350-400 is the best bike possible. Gonna put it in a current chassis. Either way, at the bigger CC's, most will know better, in my opinion. Maybe not all, but sometimes "natural selection" is best.
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Well someone here said that I should tell the race promoters that I'm on a YZ 260 in the open class..I think that is what I'll do.
These 2 day open events are all about mini bikes and the obnoxious self important parents..sadly there is little else on offer..Apart from the Vic titles (4 races per year) there are no other adult only events.
Subsequently the races arent like they used to be when i was 17.Back then it was 2 x20 or 30 min motos. A B and C grade. Everyone was over 16 yrs of age..usually much older..
Now it's an endless procession of 50cc classes followed by the 60's then the 85's etc etc./
That means that most races are only 4 laps in duration and usually on the Sunday of the 2 day weekend...delays in the program cause the race length to be cut down to 2 or 3 laps..often just the 2..
So at 45 years of age and being quite physically fit...I rde vets,lites and opens..Every possible class
Since I dont want to even know about owning a fat heavy 4 stroke..my 125 and 250 two stroke YZ's are all I need ...then along comes some tosser who never raced or even rode a day in his life and all the rules change..
I started racing in 1982 and lived for it up until 2002..
After spending 5 weeks riding and racing in the USA in 2000, I came home to utter dissillusionment at the way things are run here..
The straw that broke this camel's back..
I turned up to a two day open at my home club's track in Victoria entered in 3 classes..but they wouldnt let me race..I didnt have my own personal flag marshall (a new requirement aparrantly) .
I was then given an ear bashing about how I shouldnt go motorbike racing without my parents supervision (i was 34 years old at the time)
So I loaded my bikes back on the ute,went home and quit the sport.
Some 9 years later now ,I have become bored with life without racing,told myself I could do it again if I could just ignore the tossers who run the sport.
But I see that nothing has changed,especially me..
I just cant get past the very idea of some fuckwit non racer deciding that 250 2 strokes are no longer eligible for the open class...Means I'm down to just 2 classes ,lites and vets..typically a total of around 6 x 3 lap races over the course of 2 very long days..
I'm pissed off and I think,quite rightfully so
Phil
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The goal posts keep getting moved - to use the old hoary line -' the more things change, the more they stay the same'
Perhaps the club ( and maybe MA, soon, too?) has gone back to the old rules (not that I know Exactly what they were...) of a 250, of any sort, Not being allowed to ride in the 500 class? It came from the 60s when CZ/Husky turned up at 500 GPs on 250s and started to beat the up to 500cc 4ts - they then introduced rules that made it that it had to be something like 292 /300cc. Over the years I've seen 251cc, 256cc rules.
But , if a class is referred to as "open", it should be just that - open to all capacities.
Perhaps there's a few people in the club that are pissed off that they have 450s and can't get many class options themselves, so now that 250s are rightfully allowed against 250s, they've gone, stuff those blokes , we're not letting them get 2 classes out of one bike..........
Years ago, when I rode my hybrid CR/XRs, all I wanted to do at club MX races was ride (like you obviously want to do), and I was more than happy to pay for entry for each class I raced in. Some clubs couldn't handle that, until I got them to do the sums and see the extra money they would get out of me and others. Maths can be a bit of a problem for some...
I'm familiar with clubs wanting flag marshals - it's always been a big problem, and many will require a flag marshal from a rider, or a rider to flag some races - it's become a common practice. I can see it being a problem if you were wanting to do a lot of classes - as whatever rules about marshaling would still have to apply, to be fair to others.
I'm a bit puzzled by your point about being chastised for not having parental supervision at 34- either you must look very young for your age, or you might have been 'acting' a bit young at the time? Were you loosing it at them? :D
In all my travelling to and from the states in years gone by, I too found our set up here infuriating, but I found the seemingly, to me at the time, completely uncontrolled licencing requirements in the US pretty bizarre too - but I sure liked being able to turn up at a track in California and basically pay my money (and not much of it, either) and race / ride. I think, at first, I was so stunned by the ease of being able to race /ride, in a country 'famous' for it's litigation happy rep - after spending much of my life under the ACU/MA jackboots - I thought that I was in some sort of 'fantasy island' scenario.
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Bearorso..You and i are certainly from that same era when things were more fun at the races!
I spent 5 weeks in the USA living at a mate's place,went riding about 3 days aweek with Doug Dubach..He'd pick me up and off we'd go..
Raced the REM races at Glen Helen a few times...
Like you I was blown away by how easy and casual it was to go race there..
I remember we were parked next to Jody Weisel from MXA and we were sitting up on the hill watching the bikes go around the National track on a Thursday practice the week before Christmas.
I picked one guy and then counted every bike that came past until he came around again..350 plus!!It was insane out on the track huge pile up's everywhere..little kid's on 60's old mates on enduro bikes and national pro's like McGrath and Vuillemen all out there at the same time..
No flagmen whatsoever.
Asked JW how this could be since California was reputed to be the home of ambulance chasing lawers..
He said the litigation thing got so bad that tracks were shutting everywhere..
The industry got organised and lobbied congress to enact an "extreme sports" legislation that meant that people who signed an indemnity waiver and then participated in one of these dangerous sports,had no rights to sue if they got hurt.
Anyway..when I got home,my tolerance level for petty officialdom was at an all time low..I only lasted one season then chucked it in.
The flag duty thing was really getting me down..I never had anyone to take to the races,would ask people to come,but no one was ever interested....I understand how it's difficult to get flaggies,but I also dont' see why the need to have one on every corner..Really only necessary in blind spots in my opinion..
My biggest beef with these people is that they are always completely inexperienced with racing..typically just some junior racer's mum or dad..they have the attitude that this qualifies them to know what they are talking about.
Itried to explain to the Maffra sale club secretary that shutting me out of the open class was costing them money and acieving absolutely nothing else..Her attitude was that she just didn't care,not her problem.
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Idiot local race promoters are nothing new. My buddies and I lived and breathed racing in high school (25+ years ago.) We got out when we all started college or jobs that wouldn't allow us to race. One of my best friends got back into it in '89 on an perfectly prepped KX125 and pre-entered an NESC race in Maine that got cancelled. Someone told us that all pre-entries would get transferred to next weeks race at a different track. We showed up on a shoe-string budget and they told us that the pre-entries were not transferred and he would have to pay again @ the late fee rate. We didn't have the money, and when we were questioning the officials about it, the president of NESC came up and started screaming at us, demanding to know where we got that info. We could not remember who told us, so we walked away. The jack-ass followed us, grabbed me and slammed me up against a motorhome still screaming in my face. He was at least 30 years older than me, probably out-weighed me by close to 100 lbs, and I didn't want to get my friend barred for life, so I didn't bitch-slap him, even though he seriously deserved it. We packed up and never raced another NESC race. He has since won 2 NETRA enduro championships. Too bad, I really loved racing at Southwick but will never pay another cent of my hard-earned money to NESC.
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Yeah,these stories are all too common..I think some of these idiots are only involved because it gives them a chance to feel important and throw thier weight around.
I remember this one dickhead who was doing machine examination before a race at Broadford in the early eighties,he held up the whole show because he insisted that every bike have thier front sprocket cover on..
If you race at broadford..first thing you do is take that off,cause the thick sticky rock filled clay jams in thier and causes big chain problems..
Most racers never run the cover in any case..so like me, most guys had left the covers at home..
This idiot was seriously not going to let about half the field race!!
Someone came up with the idea of cutting up a coke can and using that as a front sprocket cover and that's what we all did...
This little rule book Nazi was satisfied with that :o..And he let us all through as long as we all had a jury rigged cover..
Of course we all took them off immediately after machine examination,but he had imposed his "authority" and was seen walking about the rest of the day ,chest all puffed out looking like the man!!
What a dickhead!! I just have to be more inclinded to tolerate them,cause they will never go away.
Anyway..I filled out my entry for this race..entered on my 144 in the lites and my 250 in the opens,attached a note quoting the auctual MA rules regarding this.
I have every right to ride my 250 2 stroke in the open class,no club has the right to nominate which class a competitor has to ride his 250 2 stroke in.
Will post back here at the end of the month as to how I went.
hopefully it will be a happy ending and not another story of overbearing petty officialdom.In any case,I will try to just relax and not make a big fuss..I just wanna race ,have fun and beat as many young blokes on 4 strokes as I can
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The world is full of Wankers in part time power situations. Volunteer official's/security guards etc.
I was kicked out of a cricket game couple of years back by a security guard flexing his temporary status of power.
We had just arrived and were sitting on the grass bank and people were doing the mexican wave with the usual things flying in the air.
Paper cups/empty cans & stuff.
Well the security guard was hit on the head with something and decided out of a crowd of 1000 people it was me.
It wasn't, I was getting a beer out of the chilli bin. ( I was sober, we just arrived )
He tried to lift me up off the ground ( we were sitting down ) to evict me and I told him to let go off my arm or i'll knock his teeth out.
I don't take too kindly to being man handled by anyone let alone a guard for the day type prick.
He called the police and there was a huge argument about kicking me out.
There was about 50 people arguing to the cops that I had done nothing and leave me alone.
The cop's said they have to act on any report from sercuity and I was escorted out by the cop's with this smug prick following.
When we got to the gate I asked the guard to come outside with me, The cop's said if I hit him they will have to arrest me, I said that's fine because this prick has ruined my day and I will be alot happier seeing him laying on the ground.
The prick just smiled and walked away. Gutless wanker. >:(
Still pisses me off to this day. $50 for a ticket and lasted 1/2 hour of what would have been a great day in the sun.
Beware of prick's in white coat's. >:(
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yeah MAWA ruined mx for me with all their bullshit rules. The bring some one along and ruin their day so I could race/practice
rule (if you can find anyone willing) is a pi$$er. Anyway hopefully I've mellowed a bit over the last 2 years because I plan on giving
racing another crack now I'm living in sunny (or should that be wet and windy) Queensland :P
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yeah MAWA ruined mx for me with all their bullshit rules. The bring some one along and ruin their day so I could race/practice
rule (if you can find anyone willing) is a pi$$er. Anyway hopefully I've mellowed a bit over the last 2 years because I plan on giving
racing another crack now I'm living in sunny (or should that be wet and windy) Queensland :P
I thought ya might need to get a jet ski Eggs.....lol
The rules and regulation thing also pissed me off, ten years ago when moved to the big smoke the first time i went to a club day we all got an ear bashing from the president about not havin a flaggie and if we didnt bring one you may as well not bother goin coz you wont be racin...........i dont think i went back.
I do think that you should be allowed to race ya 250 in the big bike class too PhilR, hope ya kick some or all four stroke arses...... :P
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Hey MXLORD327,
I live a half hour away from Southwick. I raced NESC in the 70's and early 80's. I know what you are talking about first-hand, also. There were a lot of 'Special riders', you know, the ones that if they get a bad start, the black flag goes out so they can have a second chance to get a better one. And I'm talking the Expert classes.
I rode my butt off in one moto in 81 on my 1978 Maico 440, getting about a 5th place start and was only passed by two heavily sponsered riders after 20 minutes and two laps. When I went to check results, they listed me as the 23rd finisher! I went to the president of NESC at the time, no help there, talked to the scorers, track officials. I got nowhere. I was told that I could protest, so I went to find the people to talk to there, and they were gone.
Another open Expert race at Pepperell, my favorite track at the time, I am in third place at the start, behind the two point leaders and feeling like they were going slower than I was. But, two of the Hotshoes went down in the first corner. My pit-board guy said they were up and running right away. But their buddy was the finish line flagger with and waved the black flag as soon as he seen they were on the ground. On the restart, I was between the two that went down the first time, and I was slammed by both of them right out of the gate. I went down, but there was no black flag that time and I ended up one position out of the money.
I also went on to better things, winning 5 consecutive AMA pro hillclimb championships on a 84CR500. A bike that I was told would not even make the hills on the circuit.
Paul
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My two favorite tracks of all time - Southwick & Pepperell! First novice trophy came at Southwick, first holeshot came at Pepperell. I live about 1/2 an hour from the old Waterboro track, never made it out of the C class though.
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Well,an epilogue to this thread I guess..My entries were accepted for the Maffra open and the Blue Rock open..Got calls from both club secretaries telling me I couldnt ride the 250 in both lites and opens..my answer to both was read my F###### entry form,I'm riding my 125 in the lites and my 250 in the opens..They both acknowledged that 250 two strokes are in fact eligible for the open class..in fact any size two stroke is!!
I guess it will take a while for club secretaries to finally get this sorted out..
On the upside..Here in Australia you can race a 250 two stroke in the lites class and any size two stroke in the open class..I'm already having fantasies about a 300cc kitted KTM 250sx
On the downside..it makes my 144 kitted yz 125 sort of redundant....NAH!!! I'l never give that up..I go faster on it than my 250 anyway!
Also on the down side...Making my whole whinge here a complete storm in a tea cup..
Went practising Sunday before last on my 250 on a fairly whooped out sand track and had the worst high side get off I ever had ...well ever!
Fourth gear on a long sweeping bend,fastest part of this practise track out in the bush.
Have absolutely no idea what happened other than I was going just fine then next second over the bars and into the sand head first,then over onto my back.
Knocked the stuffing out of myself,tore some muscles in my back and cracked 3 ribs.
As a result I have had to cancel my entry for both these races.
As a result I'm very stiff,extremely sore,and getting absolutely no sympathy from either my missus or my boss.
I can tell you that shearing sheep all day with 3 cracked ribs,blood in my right lung and torn up back muscles is enough to put me off racing for a couple of weeks yet..
None of this would of course have happened if I'd been wearing my fox body armour,which I of course forgot to take with me that day.
End of story
Phil