Two Stroke Motocross

Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: MXLord327 on January 12, 2011, 01:04:24 PM

Title: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: MXLord327 on January 12, 2011, 01:04:24 PM
I think someone on this site was talking about this type of build not too long ago, I can't remember who it was.  This looks like a great project to me!!

http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/project/project-24-getting-an-aircooled-motor-in-a-4stroke-frame-53113.html (http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/project/project-24-getting-an-aircooled-motor-in-a-4stroke-frame-53113.html)
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: SachsGS on January 12, 2011, 05:15:38 PM
I've done this a number of times and it's a lot of fun - both building the motorcycle and playing around with them afterwards. ;D
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: DangisMX on January 13, 2011, 02:15:51 AM
I would like to ask if there are any advantages that an air cooled motor has over a liquid cooled one?
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: Coop on January 13, 2011, 05:07:21 AM
I would think simplicity of both the engine and parts required for the build, are the main advantages. Plus it's kind of cool to see an old air cooled engine in a modern chassis. Well, cool to me anyway haha.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: SachsGS on January 13, 2011, 09:25:38 AM
The old aircooled motors don't stand a chance compared to the modern liquid cooled motors performance wise (obviously) but they are fun.Just like watching "On ANY Sunday" ,as soon as I hear the exhaust note and feel the different vibration of the motor I'm transported back to an earlier,simpler time in my life.All the old aircooled motors ask for is a piston and maybe some clutch plates now and then,quite the opposite of the "Nasa spec." maintenance regiment that modern racing 4Ts require.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: ford832 on January 13, 2011, 03:33:46 PM
Less power,old technology-what's not to like? :D It's not very logical,but on the other hand,it would be a cool project just because it is.I'd do it if time allowed-and may yet at some point :)
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: opfermanmotors on January 13, 2011, 05:48:28 PM
Quote
The old aircooled motors don't stand a chance compared to the modern liquid cooled motors performance wise
 

Except the big bores, the 81 Maico 490 stood against the KTM 525.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: factoryX on January 13, 2011, 05:53:36 PM
With modern porting these motors are beasts.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: JETZcorp on January 13, 2011, 07:01:16 PM
For me, the simplicity, appearance, and sound of the air-cooled engines are what do it.  I'm sure that liquid-cooled is much more effective (especially if you want to compare it to a late-model air-cooled engine, after they shaved the fins down by 50%).  However, the kind of riding I do generally involves higher average speeds and much lower average RPMs than motocross, so I simply don't need the extra cooling power.  The bike never gets particularly hot, why add moving parts and pump liquid to the top of the bike for cooling I don't need?  For someone making a serious bid at motocross racing victory, however, the situation is different.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: factoryX on January 13, 2011, 08:03:32 PM
it depends on the bike, My dads 81 atc250r would get so hot that it would start dieseling.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: riffraff on January 13, 2011, 08:33:19 PM
For me, the simplicity, appearance, and sound of the air-cooled engines are what do it.  I'm sure that liquid-cooled is much more effective (especially if you want to compare it to a late-model air-cooled engine, after they shaved the fins down by 50%).  However, the kind of riding I do generally involves higher average speeds and much lower average RPMs than motocross, so I simply don't need the extra cooling power.  The bike never gets particularly hot, why add moving parts and pump liquid to the top of the bike for cooling I don't need?  For someone making a serious bid at motocross racing victory, however, the situation is different.

That's why I like my '89 YZ490, simple air cooled engine and fairly modern chassis.
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: DangisMX on January 14, 2011, 02:06:49 AM
I see. Well I definitely understand why you guys like air cooled engines then :). But what about overheating? If it does happen, do you get any warnings? I mean, when driving around on a liquid cooled engine, if it gets too hot, your antifreeze boils and you get steam coming from the radiator bleed hose, that's a good sign to take it easy for a while. But what about air cooled engines?
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: MXLord327 on January 14, 2011, 06:48:50 AM
You would just start losing power.  Most amateur MX races are in the 15 minute range, and unless it was really hot outside, an air-cooled motor would be fine.  At pro speeds for 35 minutes, it would be a different story.  I think the biggest advantage would be for the guy that rides way out into the boonies - what happens to him on a water-cooled bike if cut cuts a coolant line or smashes a radiator?  Could be a long push back....
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: SachsGS on January 14, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
I think the purpose of the project is to illustrate just how complicated and expensive modern racing fourstrokes have become.You can't get much simpler then an aircooled 2T and I think Super Hunky is trying to hammer home the point that the sport is headed in the wrong direction. :-X
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: DangisMX on January 14, 2011, 09:20:01 AM
MXLord327- Ah ok, I see. Thanks for the info.  :)
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: opfermanmotors on January 14, 2011, 09:53:36 AM
Quote
I see. Well I definitely understand why you guys like air cooled engines then . But what about overheating?

I can't tell you how many times I been out with water cooling guys and their bikes overhead after a hillclimb or just for going slow through the tight and technical.  Its funny because sometimes they blow steam out of the bottom of the bike and whistle.  The longest I ever seen it was several minutes.  So it's not true that water cooled bikes do not overhead, if you do not get air going through the rads the bike will still overhead.  I would reccomend putting a fan on those things for trail riding.

Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: andreschubert6 on February 01, 2011, 10:31:52 AM
Hey Guys!
I' m new at this Board. The reason why i' m registrated now is this thread.
So, what' s the latest update of this project?

Maybe you' ve recognized that i' m not a native english speaker. That' s why you can correct my english if im writing creepy things :-)!

See you!

Andre
 
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: JETZcorp on February 01, 2011, 05:10:40 PM
Hey man, your English is much better than a couple of native-speakers I know, don't worry about it!
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: MyckMcClung on February 01, 2011, 06:11:46 PM
hay now
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: riffraff on February 01, 2011, 08:30:52 PM
hay now

Hay's for horses  :P
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: andreschubert6 on February 02, 2011, 09:43:01 AM
Hey man, your English is much better than a couple of native-speakers I know, don't worry about it!

I try to get better.  :P

...but back to toppic. Does anything happened in this project?

Greetings from Berlin
Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: dutchdirtbikes on February 02, 2011, 01:49:12 PM
Hello
I`am also new here and from the Netherlands (sandtracks heaven)
So andreschubert6 don`be afread for your Englisch ,its  not mine first language also. ;)

To the subject:
Disk brakes, suspension, ergonomics, are the only real progress they make.(even alu frames are fake)
I`am realy sure if someone or a firm would produce now a modern aircooled twostroke dirtbike with pds system and modern ergonomics
and a Maicolike powerband it became a huge succes!!
It wil be simple, very low priced and  maintenance
It would be the perfect dirtbike for the fun riders. And don`t forget ,just for fun riders, are the biggest part of all riders.
And racing against each other, with these bikes on on  approacheble races ,would be bring back al the fun and happiness as like early years, of dirt riding

Can you figure a 1981 Maico produced with the today`s high leveled production tech ?

So i have spoken  ;D


Title: Re: Air-Cooled Engine in Modern Frame
Post by: SachsGS on February 02, 2011, 06:41:51 PM
Super Hunky (Rick Siemen) is involved with this project and can be contacted directly at Offroad.com.I'm pretty sure that we will be updated on the bike's progress at regular intervals.