Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: JohnN on November 22, 2010, 02:50:05 PM
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Wow! I love it!
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/11/hondas-first-two-stroke-motocross-bike/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/11/hondas-first-two-stroke-motocross-bike/)
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I've been noticing something. Although they're still more unique from each other than today's bikes, don't these two seem to share a lot in common? I've heard these two also had fairly similar riding characteristics, even though one was praised for being the best bike in the world, and the other was said to be the worst.
(http://www.dropbears.com/h/honda/images/cr250m.jpg)
(http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/TM/TM400/1975_TM400_yel-side_500.jpg)
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Beauty of a bike John!
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I've heard these two also had fairly similar riding characteristics
I rode both of these bikes back in the day. While the Elsinore was winning races
every weekend, the TM, AKA the widowmaker, was putting it's riders in the hospital.
Even though works Suzuki ruled the races, that info didn't make it to the production
line. The 400 had the worst possible combination of a rubbery frame and a light
switch powerband - just think of the opposite of an open class Maico.
I rode my friends TM, and it was eye popping scary, and I don't mean scary fast. It
was scary like "which way is it going to go this time when I pull the trigger." That kind
of ride could never translate into consistent laps, much less race wins. IMO, the TM400
earned it's place as one of the worst bikes of all time.
dogger
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Beauty of a bike John!
I loved the early Elsinores! In fact my first "real" race bike was a 1974 Honds CR125.
(http://vintagemx.com.au/wp-content/gallery/honda-cr125-models/1974_cr125.jpg)
The article by Terry Goode contains more information than I have ever seen about the beginning of the two-stroke Honda's. Good stuff!
And JETz.....
Looks can be deceiving!!
:o :o :o :o
(http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/myspace_cropping.jpg)
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It is odd that Honda would introduce such industry changing machines and then allow them to stagnate until the 1978 Husqvarna copies. Never did figure that one out.
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Here was my 74 Honda Elsinore CR250M. I purchased it new in 74. I wanted a 125, but they were sold out, and didn't expect a shipment for another 3 weeks. The 250 was ready and available... (By the way, check out the trick bike stand). This was just before I sold it in 2004.
(http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/eric_provenzano/rightfull.jpg)
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The TM400 was quite scary (although my uncle John had one and thought it was an excellent bike and didn't exhibit the light-switch thing at all, so presumably his had the wonky ignition fixed/replaced) but it doesn't make much sense to compare the TM400 against the CR400 Elsinore, because there was no CR400 Elsinore. Does anyone have experience with a TM250?
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I have, real garbage on wheels. I tried a stock TM 250 and two with all the mods one day back in 73, all within 20 minutes of each other. I could not tell the difference between them, they all sucked. The bikes are born swappers, jump nosedivers, and you could not come out of a smooth corner without the thing bouncing and fishtailing. Of course, that is if you didn't loose the front wheel in the corner and go down.
The only Japanese bike I liked from the 1970-77 era was the 74 YZ250, the first expensive one, and I still could not ride that as fast as I could ride my Rickman Montesa. The Jap bikes were way overrated, including the Elsinore's. I'm talking every brand/model year of the big 4 up to about 77.
The TM400's had a cut crankshaft to reduce flywheel effect. The best option was to use the TS400 crankshaft with the TS400 ignition. That would help keep it from stalling when you chopped the throttle, much like a modern 4stroke. That didn't help it in the handling department though.
I had a magazine from back in the day where thay set out to build the ultimate TM400/250. The only parts that remained original was the motor and wheels. The motor had the crankshaft and ignition replaced with TS parts. The cost for the chassis and all the mods alone were double the initial cost of the bike, and it was still nowhere as good as a standard Euro bike.