Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: ford832 on October 26, 2010, 06:01:16 PM
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I've read various time on here people complaining about Yamaha selling their 2t's with only bng and repetitive use of the term "old technology".I'm not trying to defend them and would love to see an update but what exactly is old tech about them?The fuel delivery system?Everything else is current.
At the same time,when the link to the new TM's is posted,everyone goes nuts about them.Granted,I'd love to have one myself but where is the "new tech" in a TM that Yamaha lacks?
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The look is outdated and would like to have the yz to be a bit more flikeable.. and yeah add an hydraulic clutch and a full fi system so the sheep out there can stop complaining and start buying the 2 stroke again. and the TM has some delicious bits on it!
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I only own Yamaha's, but I will be getting a TM.
Not because of any technology, just so I can give an honest opinion about it and check it out myself.
I don't see Yamaha's 2t's as neglected, more like close to perfected. :)
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My 08 YZ250 is clearly the best bike I ever owned. After having a great bike in my yz426 I suffered through years on my 03 yz450. The yz250 is despite being "old technology" way better than the 03. Like the post above I see them as perfected. Neutral handeling, works like suspention, cheap hop ups (power), DOES NOT BREAK, and lots of usable HP. As far as outdated looks go mine looks very modern whenever I ride fast (not often but it does happen). I do hope the TM's do what they are designed for and we have a new choice. my kids are on a KX65 and a KX 85. I will rebuild my nephews 2001 RM125 as their next bike as I have no other choice . As they outgrow the RM I will need a 2 stroke to put them on as I am now a 2T only fan. Yeah I SAID IT, 2 STROKE ONLY!!!
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heres why :
YZ250 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-hnKmyEvVQ#)
97 and up notice a pattern? ;D
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i think mine looks bad a--!!!!! and needless to say it f-ing RIPS!!!!!!!
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z146/westsiderippa/IMG_0234.jpg)
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You mean 96 FactoryX,the Yz250 since 96 was a don,t do anything great,but don,t do anything bad handling and power wise,which isn,t a bad thing for a 250. The 125 since 96 went for a broad powerband,05 to 10 they like to blow 3rd and 4th gears,they need to fix there transmission. The TM 125 has a frame very similar to a cr125 and cr250f, which makes it better than the yz. And the TM 125 has a expert motor=alot of topend perfect for me, and the inner cooled bottom end is very important and one of a kind.
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They should have done a fast morph like this so you could see it better.
2010 Maico Motorcycles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OC-k9k41U0#ws)
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oops, I meant 96. ;D . The maico video was awesome.
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If I was going to buy a 250 2stroke motocrosser, the first question I want answered when comparing bikes is which one has more power. The YZ 250 is a nice bike, granted, but the KTM 250 SX simply has a lot more power. In my book, that means there is no contest, the KTM is a far superior machine. With the TMs, all I see is a lot of fancy bling. What can they really do? Will it pull the YZ through the gears, or the KTM? I certainly wouldn't fork over the money for one unless I knew for certain it could. I'd bet right now, the KTM would beat the TM 250 through the gears, and on the dyno, which translates into a better chance of a holeshot and a win. Handling isn't going to be bad on any of these machines and anyhow, each rider will wish to adjust them to his own riding style and preferences no matter the case. I'd never buy a TM, Maico or any other brand over the KTM until I saw for a fact that I am starting out, with more beans in the motor. Right now, the KTM 250 SX is the all time king of stock 2stroke MX motors. I'd love for Maico or TM to show me I'm wrong, but I'll bet they cannot. Balls before bling bling!
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Balls before bling bling!
Now there's a statement.... ;D
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In comparing the TM to the YZ I think it is a case of the TM having caught up to the YZ in terms of technology and, if TM maintains this momentum, they will very soon surpass the stagnant YZ.
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I thought they already had. :o
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Hey Turquine, did you work for Can-Am in the '70s? Because your attitude about power seems to be IDENTICAL to theirs. And hey, they managed to pick up a pretty good stack of trophies with it!
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I recently purchased a 2010 YZ250, I considered the other two stroke 250's, Here's my decision process.
I race desert Hare & Hound 40 - 80 miles, I do practice loops of race mileage + 10 miles.
I am racing in the senior class (40-49), and I'm at the high side of the class, So I really don't have to go that fast.
I need:
A broad spread of power (the YZ is great).
Reliability (Yamaha is legendary).
Parts availability (My local Yamaha dealer is great, The parts Mgr. races a 2009 YZ250) .
Smooth ride (SSS is awesome).
I don't care about:
Peak HP numbers.
Bling.
I don't like:
Perimeter frames.
hydraulic clutches.
My local KYM dealer.
Mail order parts.
So for me it was an easy choice.
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KTM is a complete bling bike,hydaulic clutch,rotars,wp shock,chain, similar stuff as the TM so balls before bling don,t make sense. A 06 cr250 Honda makes more peek hp than a ktm. Tm,s are race ready for mx, a yz or ktm is tuned for mx,harescrambles,ice riding,trail riding,etc. In 98 I had a Noleen yz125 national bike that holeshot a national,I rode a 98 stock tm 125 and it was quite a bit faster. The Noleen yz125 was built to run on race fuel also. I owned 3 yz ,s they good bikes,but speaking of bikes that I owned the cr125 is a much better bike than a yz125 or rm 125. My 04 cr144 is a race only engine,my 06 cr125 with just a icat,rad valve and pc silencer is quicker and faster than a yz 125 2010 with a pipe and silencer on a friday night track, and the cr,s handling is better. The tm supposed to handle like a cr 125 and that,s the best handling bike ever made.
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I don't mind Mail Order Parts. The local dealerships all charge way too much in comparision and they can still take months to deliver. I ordered stuff for a Honda and actually never got it, after 2 months I just canceled half the order.
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My local Honda/Yamaha dealer has had the parts I have needed in stock 90% of the time.
If they don't stock them US Honda is 30 miles away, US Yamaha is 15 miles away.
FMF is 20, L.A. Sleeve 15. I have good report with all of them. I don't ask for any favors, I just expect good service. L.A. Sleeve, And my dealer will stock parts for me.
Consumables Oil, Tires, etc... My dealer (LeBard and Underwood) is very reasonable, And I would pay more to support the local guy.
Some kid wrote in to Dirt Bike magazine asking which 125 to buy, Super Hunkey told him they were all close, Pick the best dealer in town and buy whatever they sold. This may not be the best advise for every situation, But it has served me well, I have bought 6 bikes in 10 years from the same dealer, I have had very few problems, And they were resolved quickly.
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My local dealer is Motosport, that is prolly the problem :)
I do get a lot of machine work done by a guy who has a shop in his garage, that's about as local as you can get :)
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I think i can help with your problem ford.
Paint your YZ a slightly different shade of blue & i can send you a set of TM graphics.
Easy fix ;D ;)
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A 06 cr250 Honda makes more peek hp than a ktm.
Yeah, but you have to be a rocket scientist to jet one properly. And even then you still have problems !!
Also, please note :
The apostrophe ( ?? , often rendered as ' ) is a punctuation mark, and sometimes a diacritic mark, in languages that use the Latin alphabet or certain other alphabets. In English, it serves two main purposes: the omission of one or more letters (as in the contraction of does not to doesn't), and the marking of possessive cases (as in the cat's whiskers). According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the word comes ultimately from Greek ??[the accent of] ??turning away??, or elision?), through Latin and French.[1]
The apostrophe is different from the closing single quotation mark (usually rendered identically but serving a different purpose), and from the similar-looking prime ( ? ), which is used to indicate measurement in feet or arcminutes, as well as for various mathematical purposes) and okina ( ? ) (which represents a glottal stop in Polynesian languages).
differs from :
The comma ( , ) is a punctuation mark. It has the same shape as an apostrophe or single closing quotation mark in many typefaces, but it differs from them in being placed on the baseline of the text. Some typefaces render it as a small line, slightly curved or straight, or with the appearance of a small filled-in number 9.
The comma is used in many contexts and languages, principally for separating things. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word comma comes directly from the Greek komma which means something cut off or a short clause.
Thanks !!
:D
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Super Trucker, I didn't intend to imply that the KTM was as plain Jane as say, the YZ 250. I was merely trying to stave off what I expected some responses to be. I mean that the TM comes with all sorts of parts stock that one would normally expect to have to buy aftermarket. I don't know for sure whether it is better equipped than the KTM or not. My concern would be first, which one will go the farthest up a sand dune without bogging, and which one will win in acceleration such as on a very long start or stretch of track. Those are the things that concern me, the way I liked to ride. Others might be much more concerned with how tight it can carve a corner, how well does it jump, or something else. I just didn't want to get sidetracked with some assertion about the TM coming stock with more parts so you won't have to replace with aftermarket parts and what not, if indeed this is the case. Whether it is or isn't, is not my concern. I said I believed the KTM will beat the TM in a drag race or throttle roll on, that's why I would choose it. I do not know this for a fact, but base this on various dyno tests I have seen, and bike tests from different mags. If you or someone have seen the TM or any other stock 250 beat the stock KTM 250SX through the gears, great, post it.
I also don't want to get sidetracked with."What about rider skill or traction." We're assuming equal riders pretty much, and good traction for both machines. I'm well aware that a good rider on a mediocre bike will almost always beat a mediocre rider on a good bike, and in many cases, an underpowered 250f can get enough traction to pull away from a much more powerful 2stroke 250 which is spinning out. Those are issues I'd deal with after buying the bike, because I believe can alter them fairly easily. I could in the past, anyhow.
As to the 2006 CR 250 having more hp than the KTM, I'd like to see the dyno test to prove that. Here's a dyno test from MXA on the 2010 KTM 250SX -->
"Q: HOW DOES THE 2010 KTM 250SX RUN ON THE DYNO?
A: It??s a rocket ship! This is the most powerful 250cc motocross bike sold. On the dyno, the 2010 250SX made 49.05 horsepower at 8600 rpm and 30.95 foot pounds of torque at 8100 rpm. The KTM 250SX makes 3.5 horsepower and two foot-pounds of torque more than the YZ250."
Now I've read that the 2003 KTM 250 had even more power, but cannot confirm this. How much does the 2006 CR 250 have, hp and torque, how much does the TM or Maico 250 have? Anyone know? If they really do have more, that's wonderful, I'd just like to know. I have no dog in this fight as far as brands are concerned. One can't really tell just by throwing a leg over one and judging by seat of the pants, either. An old TM 400 Suzuki would feel a lot quicker, faster and more powerful than say, an '81 Maico 490, but it isn't even close in reality.
And JETZ, lol, I do indeed remember the older Can Ams, when they had the rotary valves. Great motors for their day. I loved rotary valved 2strokes, wish they made some modern ones. Yep, I share that conviction because I also rode desert a lot, and I preferred riding in front and letting the other guy eat the roost, thank you :-)
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Not sure who would win a test on the dyno against the KTM, YZ, TM or Maico.. anyone performing this shootout would need to have one of each bike on the same day at the same dyno. As anyone that has ever used a dyno can tell you the readings on them will change from day-to-day.
Since MXA has not tested or put the TM on the dyno, it's hard to compare these machines. If the 250 is anything like the 125, comparably, it will be faster than either the KTM or YZ. I have no proof of this though and have not done a back-to-back comparison.
Although after a telephone call the other day, there will most likely be a new 250cc two-stroke horsepower king crowned soon.
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Okay, John, not fair, now I'm gonna be in suspense until I see which one it is, lol. A new 250 hp king, you got me drooling, but I'm sure you aren't allowed to tell. I'm sure looking forward to reading about it though :-)
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250 horsepower king? That'll be the CRF250, right? :P
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(http://akamai.globalsources.com.edgesuite.net/f/593/3445/5d/pdt.static.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/BIG/643/B1003130643.jpg) :o :o :o
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My 2c.
While I cant quote on the TM250 specifically my 300 against a 250 is not a fair fight.
I know it is 50cc bigger but from the reports i have read the 250 has similar peak power to the 300. Just less torque in the midrange.
My olds RM had 45hp ? and the motor was in excellent order.
My mates KX has a pipe and jetting. 45hp ?
Neither bike comes remotely close to keeping up with the TM.
My guess would be a TM250 would have more power then a KTM & certainly more then a RM/KX/YZ.
I dont buy into the bling factor either.
While the bits on the tm's might look flash they are there to serve a purpose.
Billet clamps/Hubs , over size spokes etc make the bike stronger.
Some people enjoy buying after market parts for their bikes. I prefer to just ride.
Question for GlennC.
Whats your beef with parimeter frames & Hydraulic clutches. just curious ?
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KTM is a complete bling bike,hydaulic clutch,rotars,wp shock,chain, similar stuff as the TM so balls before bling don,t make sense. A 06 cr250 Honda makes more peek hp than a ktm. Tm,s are race ready for mx, a yz or ktm is tuned for mx,harescrambles,ice riding,trail riding,etc. In 98 I had a Noleen yz125 national bike that holeshot a national,I rode a 98 stock tm 125 and it was quite a bit faster. The Noleen yz125 was built to run on race fuel also. I owned 3 yz ,s they good bikes,but speaking of bikes that I owned the cr125 is a much better bike than a yz125 or rm 125. My 04 cr144 is a race only engine,my 06 cr125 with just a icat,rad valve and pc silencer is quicker and faster than a yz 125 2010 with a pipe and silencer on a friday night track, and the cr,s handling is better. The tm supposed to handle like a cr 125 and that,s the best handling bike ever made.
Sorry bros the KTM put 49 hp naked stock! No others can compare til TM show up! CR best handling bike ever made? Never tried any last gen of 2 strokes Suzuki? That thing corner like a BMX.
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Just heard the the 2011 YZ250 "MAY" ?? be the last. Gonna watch the TM's and the KTM's as the seem to be in my future. I love my 08 YZ250 but I did ride a KTM 300 at Ace and all I could say was Wow. I am a dedicated Yamaha 2 stroke fan but take my option away and ya lost me. I may only buy a bike every 3 to 4 years but the kids are getting to that new bike a year stage. Who wants our business I wonder.
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Question for GlennC.
Whats your beef with parimeter frames & Hydraulic clutches. just curious ?
Perimeter Frame - I crashed in a pile of rocks and ruined one.
Hydraulic Clutch - No real beef, I just don't think they are much better than a well maintained cable.
I have a cable on my CR500, One finger all day. Allot of 500 guys change out their cables to hydraulic because they need a new cable/basket/hub. The hydraulic system can mask the symptoms of a worn out part. I like my bike to tell me when it needs work, well in advance.
I'm not saying you should not like them, I just think they are overkill.
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The reason why people complain that the YZ's r not updated/ old technology is because Yamaha has New updates from their 4 strokes that they could put on the YZ's without modifying but chose not too.
Examples:
-Revalved/ lighten suspension
-Improved levers/ perch
-New Triple clamps
-Lighten axles and hubs
-New hydro-form swing arm
-New linkage
-Bigger Foot pegs
That's just a few I could think of, I'm sure there is more that could be easily machined to work. Darn Yamaha!
Off topic:
Was just thinking....If I was a billionaire like Gates ;). I would give a couple million to Suzuki to have them produce a all new Rm250 and Rm150. hehehe
But I would have some requirements:
-Steel frame
-hydralic clutch
-brembo brakes w/oversize wave rotors
-Carburetor (works great, why change it to something more complicated?)
-New plastics
-Completely new motor
-4T style shrouds
-Yamaha style hydro swing arm
-Billet triple clamps
-1 1/8 bars
-$6500 max MSRP =)
awww a man can only dream.....
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I stopped by my local KTM / Yamaha / Suzuki / Kawi dealer last night to drool over a new 2011 KTM XC 300. (No money, no new bike). I was talking to the salesman, and he mentioned he heard Kawi and Suzuki were thinking about importing 2 stroke's again. This is the 1st I heard of this, and it may be a bunch of bunk... but it makes perfect business sense.
I know Suzuki has really limited the number of bikes its imported into the states. They like all other MFG's have a lot of unsold inventory. Both Suzuki and Kawi still produce smokers, so why not capitalize on a segment of the market that is still strong and growing. As the salesman mentioned, he was surprised the 300 was still there... "We sell the two strokes as fast as we can get them in." He also noted , that they have no used smokers for sale, just thumpers... hmmmm
The little things in life that make you go hmmmm
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I have an antique International truck with a hydraulic clutch - self bleeding and self adjusting. I would NEVER go back to an archaic cable clutch.
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I stopped by my local KTM / Yamaha / Suzuki / Kawi dealer last night to drool over a new 2011 KTM XC 300. (No money, no new bike). I was talking to the salesman, and he mentioned he heard Kawi and Suzuki were thinking about importing 2 stroke's again. This is the 1st I heard of this, and it may be a bunch of bunk... but it makes perfect business sense.
I know Suzuki has really limited the number of bikes its imported into the states. They like all other MFG's have a lot of unsold inventory. Both Suzuki and Kawi still produce smokers, so why not capitalize on a segment of the market that is still strong and growing. As the salesman mentioned, he was surprised the 300 was still there... "We sell the two strokes as fast as we can get them in." He also noted , that they have no used smokers for sale, just thumpers... hmmmm
The little things in life that make you go hmmmm
MANNN..if they would actually start importing..that would be awesome. Nothing better looking in my opinion than a brand new kawasaki :) The only downside to them is their frames seem to wear easily..but yeah if suzuki and kawi start importing 2 strokes that would be sweet!
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I think i can help with your problem ford.
Paint your YZ a slightly different shade of blue & i can send you a set of TM graphics.
Easy fix ;D ;)
Well,that's certainly one way of making a better TM.Still,it sort of seems like cheating :P
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I think i can help with your problem ford.
Paint your YZ a slightly different shade of blue & i can send you a set of TM graphics.
Easy fix ;D ;)
Well,that's certainly one way of making a better TM.Still,it sort of seems like cheating :P
:-X :-X :-X :-X
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It seems that most equate a modern day machine with updated plastic.Personally,I'd love to seem them look like the last generation of YZF but it's not a deal breaker for me.As for lightening them up like the 4t's,lighter is better but not at the expense of durability and,engines aside,that's sort of how things are going.I wasn't that impressed when my second KTM had gone to lighter hubs,spacers,aluminum spoke nipples etc.It was a marginal weight loss but I'd have sooner stuck with the old style.
As for power,the fact of the matter is,most can't ride any 2t 250 anywhere near it's capability-unless your name is RC.
Back in 03 a riding buddy bought a new KTM 250.It was a nice bike and was,and still is to my knowledge the hp,torque king of 250's.To me,it was unrideable.Way too much,way too fast.Fun,but not effective.In subsequent years they made it much more manageable.
The later CR250's were generally proclaimed as dogs but for most were a great bike.Not much for bragging rights but they had good power and put it to the ground well.Super woods bike-and track bike as well for the average guy.
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I think i can help with your problem ford.
Paint your YZ a slightly different shade of blue & i can send you a set of TM graphics.
Easy fix ;D ;)
Well,that's certainly one way of making a better TM.Still,it sort of seems like cheating :P
:-X :-X :-X :-X
Oh,don't be sad TMKIWI,if it would make you feel better I'll send you some YZ graphics :D
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I think i can help with your problem ford.
Paint your YZ a slightly different shade of blue & i can send you a set of TM graphics.
Easy fix ;D ;)
Well,that's certainly one way of making a better TM.Still,it sort of seems like cheating :P
:-X :-X :-X :-X
Oh,don't be sad TMKIWI,if it would make you feel better I'll send you some YZ graphics :D
Only if it a set of 05 retro graphics. ;D
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The reason why people complain that the YZ's r not updated/ old technology is because Yamaha has New updates from their 4 strokes that they could put on the YZ's without modifying but chose not too.
Examples:
-Revalved/ lighten suspension
-Improved levers/ perch
-New Triple clamps
-Lighten axles and hubs
-New hydro-form swing arm
-New linkage
-Bigger Foot pegs
That's just a few I could think of, I'm sure there is more that could be easily machined to work. Darn Yamaha!
Off topic:
Was just thinking....If I was a billionaire like Gates ;). I would give a couple million to Suzuki to have them produce a all new Rm250 and Rm150. hehehe
But I would have some requirements:
-Steel frame
-hydralic clutch
-brembo brakes w/oversize wave rotors
-Carburetor (works great, why change it to something more complicated?)
-New plastics
-Completely new motor
-4T style shrouds
-Yamaha style hydro swing arm
-Billet triple clamps
-1 1/8 bars
-$6500 max MSRP =)
awww a man can only dream.....
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. A reworked motor wouldn't hurt either to pump out a bit more power stock.
Edit: Also a better transmission.
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Oh,don't be sad TMKIWI,if it would make you feel better I'll send you some YZ graphics :D
Only if it a set of 05 retro graphics. ;D
Ok then,how about these?
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb162/ford832/yzf250-450_YAMAHA.jpg)
I know they're fugly but at least they should go a long way towards covering up that "baby blue" tee,hee :D
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Well, that's one way to make people think you bought a Husaberg...
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Well, that's one way to make people think you bought a Husaberg...
Ha, that was funny !!
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Well, that's one way to make people think you bought a Husaberg...
Agreed.Whenever I see Yamaha printed in big letters I immediately think Husaberg as well :-X :)
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Ok then,how about these?
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb162/ford832/yzf250-450_YAMAHA.jpg)
I know they're fugly but at least they should go a long way towards covering up that "baby blue" tee,hee :D
Yep you are right. FUGLY
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If you saw that bike from a long distance, you'd not be able to read the word YAMAHA, and because the bike is covered in what appears to be Swedish regalia, it would look like a 'Berg. It's like in the mists of time (1980s) if you saw a bike from a long distance and it was yellow, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell if it was an RM or a YZ, until it got close enough for you to spot things like stickers, Yamaha's weird monoshock thing, etc. Same thing with Maico and Honda, if you just see a red bike bombing around the track, it was hard to tell if it was a Red Rocket or a Magnum until they got close.
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If you saw that bike from a long distance, you'd not be able to read the word YAMAHA, and because the bike is covered in what appears to be Swedish regalia, it would look like a 'Berg. It's like in the mists of time (1980s) if you saw a bike from a long distance and it was yellow, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell if it was an RM or a YZ, until it got close enough for you to spot things like stickers, Yamaha's weird monoshock thing, etc. Same thing with Maico and Honda, if you just see a red bike bombing around the track, it was hard to tell if it was a Red Rocket or a Magnum until they got close.
Not quite true... back then the bikes looked different from each other. In some cases quite a bit. The colors of red on the Honda and Maico were much different, you could tell. The yellow of the Suzuki and Yamaha was slightly different, but the rear fender and more looked different from a distance as well as the way the bikes handled. Yes you could tell the difference.
Another thing was, if you were around long enough, you could actually hear the difference between the bikes. I could tell without looking what make of bike I was hearing on the track! They all had a unique sound, that is until watercooling changed the nature of the sound, then it took a while to be able to hear it again.
Besides, back then the stickers didn't really stay on the bikes.... almost all tank decals on plastic tanks fell off!!
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You are definitely right John, I used to be able to tell what bike was on the track by the sound. None of the younger generation (under 25) believe me, but even with watercooling all the 2 strokes had distinctly different sounds. An RM125 sounded nothing like a CR125 in the '80's, and the difference was even bigger with the 250's.
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Yeah, but I mean from a LONG way away, with the bike whipping up and down in a blur over the whoops, and a great, beautiful din of 40 bikes all going for it. It's not impossible to tell them apart, and when it goes past you on the track you're definitely going to know, but when it's way on the other side of the track, there was occasion for having trouble. I've seen some old World Championship race videos from the early '80s, and while you could pick out the kind of bike given enough time to examine them (a second or two) they didn't always stay in view that long, especially on the natural terrain tracks where they're going in and out of trees and behind hills and things like that. It's not impossible, but having them be the same color just makes it more difficult than it would otherwise be, when the bike is at such a distance or such a angle that you can't pick out things like cylinder fin configurations, gas tank shape, Yamaha suspension, or Honda's stupid 1981 front number plate.
Of course it's gotten worse today, especially when everybody wants the color of their bike to be completely obscured by all their Monster Engergy stickers!
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MXLord327 honestly I was afraid that someone would call bullshit when I said that I could tell. Most of my friends were able to do the same...
JETZ - there is a huge difference between video and real life... first the image is too small and then the sound is distorted. So you're right it's difficult to tell on video.
When you were there, every week at the race track and loved motocross more than anything in the world, you would be able to tell the difference. Even when going to other tracks you could tell.
I'm sure that you've heard so much about the "old" days and possibly wish you could have been born back then... it was a fun, exciting and amazing time.
Maybe you could find one of these? ;D ;D
(http://69.16.184.167/f4n6v3z2/cds/uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/btf2.JPG?dopvhost=cdn.uberreview.com&doppl=91e11898dd359310dd65931098752b88&dopsig=92bfac150b47a00cbed9e751b86181d4)
(http://69.16.184.127/f4n6v3z2/cds/uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/btfJPG.JPG?dopvhost=cdn.uberreview.com&doppl=91e11898dd359320dd65932098752bb8&dopsig=689ff6c12eb08cedcaa33805a4405ca3)
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Bultacos had a very distinctive and unique exhaust note.
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MXLord327 honestly I was afraid that someone would call bullshit when I said that I could tell. Most of my friends were able to do the same...
JETZ - there is a huge difference between video and real life... first the image is too small and then the sound is distorted. So you're right it's difficult to tell on video.
When you were there, every week at the race track and loved motocross more than anything in the world, you would be able to tell the difference. Even when going to other tracks you could tell.
I'm sure that you've heard so much about the "old" days and possibly wish you could have been born back then... it was a fun, exciting and amazing time.
Maybe you could find one of these? ;D ;D
(http://69.16.184.167/f4n6v3z2/cds/uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/btf2.JPG?dopvhost=cdn.uberreview.com&doppl=91e11898dd359310dd65931098752b88&dopsig=92bfac150b47a00cbed9e751b86181d4)
(http://69.16.184.127/f4n6v3z2/cds/uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/btfJPG.JPG?dopvhost=cdn.uberreview.com&doppl=91e11898dd359320dd65932098752bb8&dopsig=689ff6c12eb08cedcaa33805a4405ca3)
GREAT SCOTT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:P :P
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(https://sites.google.com/a/ddouglas.k12.or.us/career-center/Home/SCOTSMAN%20Color.jpg?height=175&width=200) <--- A Great Scot!
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Question for GlennC.
Whats your beef with parimeter frames & Hydraulic clutches. just curious ?
Perimeter Frame - I crashed in a pile of rocks and ruined one.
Hydraulic Clutch - No real beef, I just don't think they are much better than a well maintained cable.
I have a cable on my CR500, One finger all day. Allot of 500 guys change out their cables to hydraulic because they need a new cable/basket/hub. The hydraulic system can mask the symptoms of a worn out part. I like my bike to tell me when it needs work, well in advance.
I'm not saying you should not like them, I just think they are overkill.
major benefit of the hydraulic clutch is there's no need for adjustment on the fly like the cable ones. they stay consistent
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If you saw that bike from a long distance, you'd not be able to read the word YAMAHA, and because the bike is covered in what appears to be Swedish regalia, it would look like a 'Berg. It's like in the mists of time (1980s) if you saw a bike from a long distance and it was yellow, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell if it was an RM or a YZ, until it got close enough for you to spot things like stickers, Yamaha's weird monoshock thing, etc. Same thing with Maico and Honda, if you just see a red bike bombing around the track, it was hard to tell if it was a Red Rocket or a Magnum until they got close.
I agree with John.I can easily tell from a distance what a bike is regardless of color or graphics-plastic,frame etc. makes it fairly easy.
That said,for me it only applies to the last 20 yrs or so.For the older bikes I'd be lost.For instance,the chances of me discerning an old Maico from a random collection of rusty bolts and scrap metal would be virtually impossible.I think that's understandable though. :P
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C'mon now Ford, you know that even an old Maico would be so far ahead of you that you would not be able to hear it! Come to think of it, all you would hear is the constant popping and clanging of your Yami disintegrating underneath you.Balewire anyone? ;D
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Come to think of it, all you would hear is the constant popping and clanging of your Yami disintegrating underneath you.
I like to think of it as "Mechanical Music" :D
As for the Maico being ahead of me-quite possible as I never claimed to be able to ride-only that I possess superior machinery.Once the old Breako crapped out,I'd flail my way by ;D
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Many long term dirt bike enthusiasts have a special fondness for the Maico brand, for it was during the "Golden Era" of offroading, the 70's, that the tiny German concern many times battled and beat the Japanese giants.
Could it be, Ford ,that you have been repressing your love of the iconic brand for too long?Is it time, so to speak, to come out of the "closet" and fully embrace "Maicoitis"? Your Yamaha is a finely engineered machine but I realize it doesn't have the exotic lineage of a Maico. :D
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Many long term dirt bike enthusiasts have a special fondness for the Maico brand, for it was during the "Golden Era" of offroading, the 70's, that the tiny German concern many times battled and beat the Japanese giants.
Could it be, Ford ,that you have been repressing your love of the iconic brand for too long?Is it time, so to speak, to come out of the "closet" and fully embrace "Maicoitis"? Your Yamaha is a finely engineered machine but I realize it doesn't have the exotic lineage of a Maico. :D
When I "come out of the closet" the signs will be obvious.I'll buy an old Maico,slap on a Red Hot Chili Peppers sticker and move to Oregon :D ;)
Truthfully,as far as old bikes go,I've always had a thing for the YZ490 for just one reason.When I was just a little Ford,we lived in Trenton Ontario and our next door neighbour had one with a virtually open exhaust.They also had a carport that was only open on the end that faced my parents bedroom window.On sat at about 7 am Mark would fire it up inside the carport and razz it for about 10 min before taking off.I've always been amazed my father never put a load of shot into him-As for me,I thought it was great. ;D
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Hopefully by then Jetz will have a silencer on that 120. :)
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If someone wants to buy me a new pipe for the bike, I'll put a silencer on it.
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Since Ford started all this, send a blue print to him of that silencer you (hopefully) designed for your bike and tell him to fab it up quick. ;D
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Since Ford started all this, send a blue print to him of that silencer you (hopefully) designed for your bike and tell him to fab it up quick. ;D
Too easy.Send me the pipe along with some measurements for attachment points etc and I'll modify it,put on a silencer and send it back.You pay shipping and I'll handle the rest. :)
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Hopefully by then Jetz will have a silencer on that 120. :)
No big deal.If I ever found myself riding behind him and got tired of listening to it,I'd simply click the trusty YZ into 2nd and motor away :D
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I've got a small machine shop, tig welder, lathe etc..Let me know if I can be of assistance.