Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: factoryX on October 20, 2010, 09:07:11 PM
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so I went into my local Yamaha dealer today and asked if they had the 2010 yz250/125 in and they where shocked I was looking for a 2 stroke. When I asked again, they told me they where not Quote "allowed to have any." :o They have a list of bikes/atv's they could order in and it isn't even offered. I don't get it, KTM is making bank on there 2 strokes, and Yamaha isn't giving out any of theirs?
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It's their dumb marketing strategy... They figure by making us buy a bike that costs way too much, they will profit more. And frankly, for the most part they have been right. They have been scamming everyone. They make bank because people will pay so much to have a four stroke..
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so I went into my local yamaha dealer today and asked if they had the 2010 yz250/125 in and they where shocked I was looking for a 2 stroke. When I asked again, they told me they where not Quote "aloud to have any." :o They have a list of bikes/atv's they could order in and it isn't even offered. I don't get it, KTM is making bank on there 2 strokes, and yamaha isn't giving out any of theres?
Spelling Correction: Allowed. (aloud) :-) Most likely their boss at the dealership has said that, he may even have them for himself hidden. I've heard of that a couple times. Because I'm pretty sure that as dealers, they were offered 1 of each per year on their floor plan. I know that the Honda dealer here tried selling me a bunch of bull that 2 strokes were banned etc. When I started telling them the real story, they said, oh, we were taught bla bla bla. I was like, no, that is just the powers that be teaching you false rumors so you don't know the truth. If everyone actually knew the truth, 4 strokes would not be so dominate. But when you go to a dealer and you don't know anything about dirtbikes, and the dealer who is suppose to be knowledgable, tells you 2 strokes are banned etc. Umm, you listen. 4 strokes weren't just chosen by the pocket book like many say. They were forced upon everyone. Every sale was pushed towards a 4 stroke in the final years of the 2 stroke. It was never about what bike is better for the person.
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I know that my local Yamaha dealer only got 1 YZ125 and 1 YZ250 for the last few years and could not order more. The shop employees bought most of them for themselves, so there were none available for the general public, even though there was quite a bit of interest. I think Yamaha is just giving lip-service to us 2 stroke guys, hoping we will all cave and finally buy into the tractor fad. I have just about given up on them, and when I finally buy, it will probably be a KTM. Now, 150 or 250, hmmmmm.......
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This is in no way surprising... just think if Yamaha did offer more, then the two-strokes would probably outsell the four-strokes and their powerful marketing machine would be thrown out of whack.
I'm not saying that it is a conspiracy, but it certainly seems to be their business plan.
Another thing is by limiting production, they can keep the price high and sales figures low.
The problem that Yamaha is having is that the two-strokes still sell well even though they are basically 10 year old designs! Oppps!
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The unfortunate thing is that the Big 4 companies would rather go broke than sell a 2-stroke. In fact, all the big 4 are loosing money and will probably start cutting models in the next couple of years.
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but thats just it, there sales are plummeting, they had a shop full of 07-08 Honda's lol.
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The local dealers around here keep the New Yam's and KTM 2 strokes in stock all the time, as well as good selection of used trade ins.
But like I have said before I live in a very Dirt populated area near Budds Creek so I would assume that is why. :)
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When I hear people say two-strokes are banned, it scares me. Not because I believe it (it's obvious bullshit) but because I know so many other people will believe it. I hear people all the time say they've got a bike, then I ask them what kind, they tell me it's a four-stroke, I ask why, and they say that's all they allow. Or they say that no one in the world makes two-strokes anymore, like they're steam engines or something. And what really gets me is that they don't seem outraged by this. They think that someone has simply banged their all-powerful gavel down and declared to the entire world that thou shalt have inferior technology, and they just say, "Oh, that's a drag but whatever." I can only attribute it to being another example of, as George Carlin put it, the large-scale Pussification of the country and the world.
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in my country
the majoraty of the riders i spoke to
said : its to powerfull for me or
i hate to put the oil in the gas all the time
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jets, this is what makes it freaking hilarious. Example, ESPN stated that 4 strokes would revolutionize the industry, the next day 4 stroke sales jumped 10 fold. :o
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found one in Idaho, if only I had the money.
http://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/1943585050.html (http://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/1943585050.html)
Awesome deals in Idaho
http://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/2008695088.html (http://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/2008695088.html)
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ya and you know what else is funny? Look at the price of a new 250 vs an 05 and they are identical bikes..... mater of fact the 4-strokes are only costing them bout $300 per bike more to make than the ones that first came out in the early 2000's, yet they are asking thousands more. I know R&D costs money but when you look at the big picture they are just price gouging (I don't think thats spelled right). on the same note, you can sell an 05 for a decent price right now cuz no one can find 2-strokes. every time one is listed locally that is a newer model it is sold in a couple of days regardless of price. Minus the guy that is asking $3800 for his YZ 125 that he admits he grenaded.
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That,s too bad what Yamaha is doing, by not having more yz,s at the dealerships. How much is a 2010 yz125 anyway?
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http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/31/0/specs.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/31/0/specs.aspx)
2011 yz125 $6,250
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/30/0/specs.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/30/0/specs.aspx)
2011 yz250 $7,150
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http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/31/0/specs.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/31/0/specs.aspx)
2011 yz125 $6,250
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/30/0/specs.aspx (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/30/0/specs.aspx)
2011 yz250 $7,150
Thanks FactoryX , Holy crap them prices are high for a yz, when you mod it out you have more green in it than a TM and it,s just a yz. That,s a easy call if your going to mod a new bike, TM for sure.
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Mmm...
That's all I've got to say at this point.
Just... the letter M.
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I thought those prices to be very reasonable.My RM was almost $6000-back in '99.My Berg listed for $11000 but I got it for $8500 as a 2 yr left over.Given that the Canadian vs US dollar are almost par now,and even when they're not,not that far apart-I'm always astounded at how cheap used bikes are down there compared to up here-In most cases I've seen listed,they'd be almost asking double here-and get it.
Don't leave us hanging Jetz,what does the M stand for? Mediocre?Miserable?Mechanical Meltdown? Inquiring minds want to know :D
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ditto, I also thought that they where some what reasonable, however, your paying for old tech.
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ditto, I also thought that they where some what reasonable, however, your paying for old tech.
Exactly. Let's take cars for instance. If a Honda Accord were 5 years old, except for different bumper emblems lets say. People in that market would probably want a better or same price as it was years ago, or they would go elsewhere for something bigger and better. It's logical to say for instance, that if Yamaha would actually just go to a 2010 YZ250F frame and plastic on the YZ250, they would outsell the YZ250F or be right in the realm of those bike sales. The reason I say that, is because in Amateur racing some places actually allow that using AMA rules. As some crazy people have stated, 99%, but umm, not true in the least bit. Places like Texas don't use AMA rules and still use the displacement cheat. But either way, the only reason the sales are down on 2 strokes even if they produced enough, is because they don't have upgrades unless stickers are upgrades.
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I've given up all hope on Yamaha doing anything to their 2 stroke lineup beyond BNGs. I'll be surprised if they keep them around much longer with how bad bike sales are doing right now.
In the latest MXA they mentioned KTM has direct injection for 2 strokes right now but will not release them until the market picks up.
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What we need right about now is for BRP to come in from above (or North, technically) and start pushing the Can-Am brand bikes back into the limelight. Have them make 125cc and 250cc E-Tec variants and do the same marketing and sales stuff they're already doing with Ski-Doo, Sea-doo, and Evinrude. They're a big enough company with enough economy of scale that they should be able to overcome the "boutique brand" barrier fairly quickly. Back in the day, they were known as the kings of raw horsepower, and I think 2011 is the perfect atmosphere to reprise that role. Just the pressure from such a big move would, I think, really light some fires under the Big Five's collective asses.
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I've given up all hope on Yamaha doing anything to their 2 stroke lineup beyond BNGs. I'll be surprised if they keep them around much longer with how bad bike sales are doing right now.
In the latest MXA they mentioned KTM has direct injection for 2 strokes right now but will not release them until the market picks up.
Yamaha will continue releasing the YZ 2 stroke range. They have to. It could be the difference between them staying afloat or closing their doors !!
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ya and you know what else is funny? Look at the price of a new 250 vs an 05 and they are identical bikes..... mater of fact the 4-strokes are only costing them bout $300 per bike more to make than the ones that first came out in the early 2000's, yet they are asking thousands more. I know R&D costs money but when you look at the big picture they are just price gouging (I don't think thats spelled right). on the same note, you can sell an 05 for a decent price right now cuz no one can find 2-strokes. every time one is listed locally that is a newer model it is sold in a couple of days regardless of price. Minus the guy that is asking $3800 for his YZ 125 that he admits he grenaded.
When 4t's first came out the price was held artificially low in order to be competitive with the 2t's on the floor.Now that so many of the 2t's have disappeared,the companies are free to charge what the machine's actual production cost is-along with usual profit margin of course.