Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: burn1986 on August 30, 2010, 10:35:33 AM
-
Finally made it back from a couple of days off. As you well know, the petition is up to 2002 signatures. I will have a follow up proposal this week and will share it with everyone here.
Apparently, the word of the petition is spreading. Word has it that Davey Coombs is definitely not for it and has said that there is no way this will happen, and that no one in the pro pits wants the two strokes back. But this is only rumor about the pro pits. It was also rumored that James Stewart was going to sign it.
Well, I guess its no surprise that DC wouldn't be for it. We knew this would be a fight. Either way, the mission is still the same - Keep making level-headed proposals to the AMA to gain more allies and keep spreading the word on the petition. The petition is only going to go up and the economy and the race team budgets will continue to go down. We will win eventually.
I should have some news and the follow up this week.
Thanks for all the support,
Burn1986
-
Awesome thanks for the update.
You know DC used to post in RacerX he thought 4 strokes were too loud and responsible getting local tracks closed, etc but the last couple years he has been anti 2-stroke for sure. I let my subscription expire a few months ago for this reason.
-
Wow, that is too bad, Davey Coombs is quite influential in the motocross world, he could have been a great ally!
-
I've got 3 more riding buddies ready to sign the petition and I'll soon have many more when I make it out to Ohio were my step-brother and sister live!........WE MUST NEVER GIVE UP!!!..... >:(
-
You know, the funny thing is that several of the factory mechanics are die hard two stroke fans and want to see this succeed. I'm pretty sure that DC is just blowing smoke to make this go away.
-
You know, the funny thing is that several of the factory mechanics are die hard two stroke fans and want to see this succeed. I'm pretty sure that DC is just blowing smoke to make this go away.
That is interesting, did you hear from some of the mechanics or something?
-
I had a very good source at the Unadilla race who talked with DC. There has been a slight buzz about it at the races and several of the mechanics and others like the two strokes. I hope I can get more info from Al Ludington this week and have more specifics as to where we are at with this thing.
-
Of course mechs like 2 strokes.
-
Some interesting replys on Vital. Good response really, especially knowing that crowd !!!
??? ???
-
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
-
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
link link link!!!
-
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
Where'd he post?
-
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
DC has now posted. Some interesting comments.
Where'd he post?
On Vital
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/AMA-Petition-Update,1046956 (http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/AMA-Petition-Update,1046956)
-
why do people still disagree? :-X
-
I say we should force everyone to read some Ayn Rand. After we're done laughing about the irony of that, we would hopefully see people coming around the the idea of having the rules support an equal playing field, rather than the fanciful idea of an equal podium. "Damn the strokes and let the best engine win" is, I believe, the moral choice.
This is all to be expected, though. People really start to scream and kick when you take away their welfare, whether it's in terms of money or cubic centimeters.
-
Unfortunately, he either hasn't read the petition or doesn't care, because he is still using the 250F vs 250 2 stroke message as reasoning. Plus I'd like to see how a 250 2 stroke gets 3 seconds faster a lap, when the 450's aren't. Umm, I thought we were passed that???? Someone go post that DC needs to know it is 150 and 300 2 strokes.
-
I replied. DC is grasping at straws with his comments. I guess he has a lot to think about right now.
-
It,s a noble idea 150,300, a priateer might get a good start,but realisticly his finish will be 30 to 40 th. It comes down to talent,if you have a top 15 rider, he finishes in the top 15, if you have a rider trying to squeek into the main, he,s not going to be a top 15 rider, even if he,s on a mod. 2-st. and has an advantage. We should be trying to start our own 2-st. series, and have the races at tracks like Millville, before the 4-st. national, the crowds will show up for the 2-st. national and won,t show up at the 4-st. national. Get them where it hurts, in the wallet.
-
I replied. DC is grasping at straws with his comments. I guess he has a lot to think about right now.
Burn, you didn't really state it still. It needs to say, DC, the petition is for only 150 vs 250F and 300 vs 450F. You only explained it's a little displacement change, but didn't say what they are. Otherwise, they will keep on using the 250 vs 250 example. Thanks
-
I think the 150/300 is good compromise(or maybe 175/350) just because a 150 would be alot more suiteable/marketable bike.
How many people like 125s but are just a wee bit big for them.
-
I replied. DC is grasping at straws with his comments. I guess he has a lot to think about right now.
Burn, you didn't really state it still. It needs to say, DC, the petition is for only 150 vs 250F and 300 vs 450F. You only explained it's a little displacement change, but didn't say what they are. Otherwise, they will keep on using the 250 vs 250 example. Thanks
Yeah, I don't know if it would've mattered. I replied later, but I doubt it was noticed.
-
Why do people keep going on about a standard 250 2/s is quicker then a 250F.
Who races a standard 250F in the pro's ? :o
There's a big difference between a stock 250F and a mod race bike.
The smokers in NZ & Aussie havnt wiped out the F's.
To much political bullshit. >:(
-
Yeah, I don't know if it would've mattered. I replied later, but I doubt it was noticed.
I posted and kind of stirred them all up again unintentionally, lol.
-
yeah, i think its about talked to death. Its time for silent action.
-
yeah, i think its about talked to death. Its time for silent action.
The big problem with talking about this on some message boards is that it brings out the... mentally challenged on both sides. Some of the pro-2-stroke voices are just as bad as the pro-4-stroke voices....
My experiences have shown me that there is a divide in the motorcycle ranks and it appears to be a economic one. No not due to the current state of affairs in this country and around the world but more in the differences between the haves and have nots...
While even the have nots want to be able to purchase new two-strokes, the truth is that they really can not afford to buy these machines that would end up costing more than the current stable of machines.
What we need is what one of our board members suggested a while back... a modern version of the Yamaha DT-1 that sells for under $4,000.00
Something that could be simple to operate, maintain, that was quite and low emission. A machine that almost anyone could afford to buy and compete with.
As we have seen from some of the videos that have been shared on here is that as long as their are at least two people on motorcycles, they can have a race.
Calling people names and starting "fights" will never get anything accomplished.
This petition is a fabulous step in the right direction and has been presented in a professional manner. any thanks to Burn for taking the bull by the horns and making something happen.
-
It is kinda as I suspected. DC avoided multiple posts about it only being 150cc and 300cc. He doesn't miss anything, and it is obvious. He posted replys to all those that were baggin on him. But 0 about the fact that we aren't even talking about 250 vs 250 anymore. Pure agenda. When I met him I truely believed he was on the 2 stroke side. After watching his replies over and over, I don't. Sad. I think you guys need to post over and over, to DC that the petition is only for 150 2 stroke vs 250F etc. Keep on posting until he responds. Or better yet, start a new one, with that as the title. LOL
-
Someone ask him why he is arguing against a strawman.
-
It is kinda as I suspected. DC avoided multiple posts about it only being 150cc and 300cc. He doesn't miss anything, and it is obvious. He posted replys to all those that were baggin on him. But 0 about the fact that we aren't even talking about 250 vs 250 anymore. Pure agenda. When I met him I truely believed he was on the 2 stroke side. After watching his replies over and over, I don't. Sad. I think you guys need to post over and over, to DC that the petition is only for 150 2 stroke vs 250F etc. Keep on posting until he responds. Or better yet, start a new one, with that as the title. LOL
Yeah, I'm gonna post some more stuff and clarify. I don't know what to say about DC orther than he is completely devoid of listening or understanding.
-
Unrelated but Vitalmx is a bad choice of names they really should change it. I keep reading it as Vitamin, unless that's the intention.
-
While even the have nots want to be able to purchase new two-strokes, the truth is that they really can not afford to buy these machines that would end up costing more than the current stable of machines.
this brings up another problem, cost. Who in there right minds would pay $8,000 plus for a brand new 250cc 2 stroke? This market right now is not going to work 5-10 years down the line, and will eventually starve itself.
-
I don't think up-front costs have actually changed all the much through the years, if you adjust for inflation. A new 450F today and a 390 Husky in 1978 go for about the same price, give or take differences between brands and locations. With that in mind, however, the Husky was considered fairly expensive at the time. So the prices of the bikes have gone up some, but it's not like they've actually gone into ridiculous land. The fact that they haven't lowered the prices for [more or less] a 2005 bike does seem kinda weird, though. It's not like they need to recover the R&D dollars they put into the YZ250 anymore.
-
But in 1978 the Husky 390 was cutting edge technology. The 2010 - 2011 YZ250 has had what updated (other than the graphics) over the past 5 - 10 years?
-
Yeah, but there is no reason for a YZ125 and YZ250 being as high priced as they are. If they were real comparable costs, the YZ125 should be around $4500 and the YZ250 should be around $5500. They haven't put any money into them, to count for the change to equal a YZ250F. Could you imagine how many sales of new bikes Yamaha would have if they priced them at that??
-
I was thinking. A great magazine article would be about this testing. Use a modded 250F vs a modded 150 KTM. A modded 450F vs a Modded 300sx KTM. Run lap times with a fast pro and see where they stand. I'd love to see that.
Hey Burns, lot's of props to ya on all of this. When your other post dies down, try posting another new one, calling on DC and OEM's to read the petition. State, did you know it was only 150cc vs 250F and 300cc vs 450F. Just to make sure they have to respond to the fact that it still is a huge cc advantage and they are proving they are scared to make the change. If they state that most the manufactures don't make 150's or 300's, you can say, in 97 did most of the manufactures make a big bore 4 stroke MX bike? It was changed for people like Guy cooper on Husky and some other riders who rode for off brands. The old rule was 360cc 4 strokes in the 250 2 stroke class. That held from the early 70's until 1996ish I think.
-
I agree Yamaha's two-strokes are over-priced, given the technology in them. But I think they are approaching it differently. Rather than giving it a price to fit the cost, and then seeing how many bikes they can sell, they are setting a number of bikes to sell, and that's determining their market price. It's obvious that they're under-producing these machines. That puts them in a different category from the "cutting-edge" stuff like the 450Fs, which I don't think are too expensive given what they are. Maintenance, of course, is where the four-strokes really burn the riders, as we all know.
-
I was thinking. A great magazine article would be about this testing. Use a modded 250F vs a modded 150 KTM. A modded 450F vs a Modded 300sx KTM. Run lap times with a fast pro and see where they stand. I'd love to see that.
Hey Burns, lot's of props to ya on all of this. When your other post dies down, try posting another new one, calling on DC and OEM's to read the petition. State, did you know it was only 150cc vs 250F and 300cc vs 450F. Just to make sure they have to respond to the fact that it still is a huge cc advantage and they are proving they are scared to make the change. If they state that most the manufactures don't make 150's or 300's, you can say, in 97 did most of the manufactures make a big bore 4 stroke MX bike? It was changed for people like Guy cooper on Husky and some other riders who rode for off brands. The old rule was 360cc 4 strokes in the 250 2 stroke class. That held from the early 70's until 1996ish I think.
Yeah, that's a good point. I may need to try and pull up some past AMA Rulebook revisions.
-
Burn, here is the original article I found a while back. Talks about the history.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/TRexRacing/4stroke.jpg)
-
Dude, that is completely awesome, where did you find it?
-
Dude, that is completely awesome, where did you find it?
Don't remember the original post, someone gave it to me. But I went to all my posts on here and went back to find when I posted it here. LOL
-
Coolness! I'm gonna include it with the letter.
-
that is really awesome work you guys are doing. please stick with it, be smart and think with your head, don't let emotions get in the way, and stay motivated. you guys are making a massive difference.
thank-you.
:D