Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: JohnN on December 17, 2009, 08:36:29 AM
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(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m26/YZ_John/pbpic4290485.jpg)
I know that so many people don't like the idea, but on so many levels it is better than you first imagine.
And please let's not break out all the OLD stories about it will mean more coal plants, Nuclear Power Plants and all that stuff that is not well researched. Like it or not, many advances have been made in Solar and wind and it's making a difference. While it's a small part of the equation in 2009, it is the fastest growing sector of power generation.
In countries like Denmark, big parts of their country are supplied by power generated by wind. In the USA Texas and California is leading the way and is growing......
The good points of an electric bike? The noise or should we say the lack of noise! I know that I could put a track in my back yard and ride all day without upsetting anyone in the neighborhood. Not only that but I could probably hear my cell phone ringing on the deck!! ;D
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http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/off-road/2009/12/14/denmark-hosts-electric-enduro (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/off-road/2009/12/14/denmark-hosts-electric-enduro)
Teaser Eco Enduro 09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNzkhTy3Oyc#ws)
It´s enduro, but still. It seemed to worked real good for those guys.
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I am just laughing at everything electrical... Clean air but junk of batteries everywhere?? You need a combustion engine with feelings to it.. I don't want my dirt bike to feel like a Forklift lol... Hydrogen is the way to go......Bmw is getting there..
BMW HYDROGEN Technology 3D Animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjWCXD4P3XQ&feature=related#)
Jay Leno Speaks Out On behalf of BMW's Hydrogen Initiative (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHbaOX2UAs0&feature=fvw#)
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OK,I'll just say one thing on the AE thing.Hydrogen isn't really a clean power,it is to the end user but it has to be produced.As for electric,here in N.S.,roughly 92% of our electric comes from coal.Again,clean to the end user.
Cool technology but I'd miss the sound-maybe a hockey card in the spokes would do the trick ;)
Another thought never really occured to me until this spring.You read about electric bikes and how long they can go on a charge and how long to recharge and all that but it's a little more than that.Granted,this example isn't of the highest technology but by nature,would be much the same.Anyhoo,one of my daughters friends has an electric dirt bike(the name escapes me at the moment but maybe I can find a pic)This spring she came over to do some riding.Her bike is supposed to last an hour on charge and recharge in forty minutes.When compared to my daughters jr50,the power is nowhere close though top speed is similar-initially at least.Starting from a stop on a hill required foot pushing assistance even when fully charged.After about ten minutes,the power drop was noticeable and by about 40 min,it would hardly move-and took about 1.5 hrs to recharge(they took turns on the JR in the meantime)Just like a battery powered flashlight or radio,I'm sure a full sized bike would lose power like this as well.It's one thing to say it has all the power of an IC engine-but for how long?Something to think about that I never see mentioned anyway.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb162/ford832/100_0855.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb162/ford832/100_0857.jpg)
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I'm a huge fan of electric power for several reasons, but the first being power. The brushless electric motor produces the same HP at any RPM unlike a combustion engine. For years I have been converting nitro and gas powered RC vehicles over to brushless electric motors. The whole thing is rather addictive once you get started, and the difference in performance of a scale vehicle is quite impressive after moving to the very smooth and VERY instant power of an electric setup.
My buddy is working with a golf car shop right now, and they mess around with some electric motors and controllers that would be well suited to a bike. My mind has been running wild with this for a while... Would love to use a 125 frame and build myself an electric. The issue for me is the price of the controller, and the cost of the power cells. I would most likely try and use lithium polymer or A123 cells. Not cheap, and there are limitations as far as the conditions they will perform well and be safe under. Most the golf cars are sporting lead acid batteries. Heavy and inefficient and probably not well suited to a bike IMO. The cars are running brushed motors too, which I don't understand. I guess brushless is cost prohibitive on a larger scale, but the increase in power and lower maintenance of the brushless motor is very appealing. I'm sure I could build a very decent performing bike if only I had the money to get started! I have some good plans in my head.
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I know John doesn't want this to turn into alternative energy, but dammit, this is too important for us, perhaps more than any other product advocacy group, to avoid. The future for motorized vehicles isn't hydrogen, nor is it battery power. It's gasoline!
"JETZ, you're crazy," I hear you saying, "the supply of gasoline can't last forever, and we'll be giving all our money to Osama and those guys."
Aha, that's where you're wrong. We can make all the fuel we need to run the country, right here in America (or wherever else people on this forum live.) And, with this method, the fuel is carbon-neutral and requires no modification to existing vehicles to use. I'm talking about algae biofuels. Certain types of algae can be composed of as much as 60% oil, or more. This oil can be used as a pseudo-crude from which you can create gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, lighter fluid, motor oil, plastic, household cleaners, and all that petroleum-based stuff. And, you can go ahead and use existing refineries to do it. All that's required to grow the algae is water, sunlight, and CO2.
Yup, that's right, CO2. The more pollution you can feed the algae, the more fuel you can produce. This is because your fuel is going to be largely carbon-based (just as it is now) and the algae get that carbon from the atmosphere. If you think about it, the fuel we're drilling out of Saudi and Iraq and such was collected from the atmosphere by plants and things millions of years ago. We are importing carbon from the past! With an algae-based infrastructure, we'll be importing it from the present. An algae farm outside Los Angeles feeds off car exhaust, the fuel gets burned, becomes car exhaust, gets eaten up by algae, gets burned, etc. Pollution becomes a valuable resource for the creation of fuel. Power Plants and other CO2 producing facilities will be able to capitalize on their pollution by developing means to capture the CO2 and shipping it to fuel farms to boost production.
FUEL Preview - Algae (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz3ruTj0KYw#ws)
This is revolutionary in engine design, because it's the only option I've seen that doesn't require a revolution. You can keep your Hemi Roadrunner. You can keep your two-stroke. You can keep all of the things in your life that need fuel, but know that it's all carbon-neutral on an algae-centric fuel infrastructure.
And, perhaps best of all, it will put an end to all the Middle-East BS that's happening over oil. Areas like Alabama, with lots of sunlight and water available (the algae is already growing there in the wild) will become the new world capital of fuel. The big oil tankers are going to be filling their tanks in the Gulf of Mexico, and delivering their product in the Persian Gulf, rather than it being the other way about.
How long do you think it'll be before we start hearing about algae rights?
Edit:
John, you have to get rid of automatic censoring. Three times, I had to remove the word s-u-c-k because it got replace with "not so good." This led to phrases like, "The algae will be sucking carbon out of the atmosphere." Seriously, this sucks!
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As for electric anything...I went to an "electric" drag race. I personally, was unimpressed with the technology and the performance. Part of the experience for me is all the sensory overload. Standing on the starting line between two blown alcohol (or better yet, blown fuel) cars is stunning. Your vision blurs, the ground shakes and they accelerate so fast it's hard to explain. This will never occur with electric motors. Thank you to the inventors of the transmission. While electric "motors" make the same HP at any RPM, IC "engines" have a power curve. You will always be able to make more HP in a narrow RPM range than you can across a broad RPM. This is why a drag car will always go faster with a 5 speed that it will with a 4 speed (when chassis design and tuning are taken into account).
Again, I want the BRRRAAAAPPPPPP when I ride. I want what an electric motor will never be able to give. Head snapping acceleration. If I'm not being clear here, go out and plug in your drill motor. Then crack off your 2T dirt bike. I know the size is different, but the concept is the same.
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Agreed. Sound is a big part of what I like about internal combustion engines. If it doesn't sound right, I don't want it. That's part of what I dislike about 4T bikes - they sound like a massive, post-enchilada fart. While an electric would be an acceptable "back-yard-bike" I think that for racing or woods work it's gotta be gas.
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Jetz - you don't like that a vacuum can suck?? :o Or that Rosy O'Donnell is gay? :-*
Well I may have to modify some of the auto filtering..... I just don't want things to get out of hand... and attempted to make the censored words funny. I'm certainly open to suggestions! ;D
As for the electric bikes and building your own, how about this?
CRF2eR Electric Honda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQch7chbco&feature=player_embedded#)
More information here....
http://www.evdrive.com/Emoto_project/moto_project.html (http://www.evdrive.com/Emoto_project/moto_project.html)
And if you must talk about AE... just do it... I'll keep my eyes closed, just be nice to each other. ???
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Here's the thing. If a two-stroke is fun because it's got a non-flat powerband, and a four-stroke is boring because it's powerband has a flat curve to it... You see what I'm getting at. When you get a bike that registers a straight line on the dyno, I can't imagine it's going to be any sort of fun compared with the options. It's like a 4T on Valium.
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You realize that I do agree with you.... don't you??
The idea of the electric is cool because I could probably ride on a daily basis right in my own back yard. No traveling to far off race tracks, practice areas or further in the winter to warm places or indoor tracks.
One of the things that I got into when I attempted to break my addiction to motocross was slot car racing. t was a boatload of fun and you had to learn to be a good mechanic and competitor. Some of the hop up stuff was more about set up and tire selection that making the motor faster.
Yes I agree that a field of electric bikes out on a track would be boring as watching grass grow.... although that analogy is similar to the conga lines of four-strokes on the race track!
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compressed air bike
COMPRESSED AIR MOTORCYCLE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY-iLe5-T2M#)
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Your vision blurs, the ground shakes and they accelerate so fast it's hard to explain. This will never occur with electric motors
I have to disagree. There are problems that must be overcome with getting the power of that electric motor to the ground without excessive wheel spin, but there is no reason that an electric motor of proper performance levels can not out-accelerate a fuel powered machine.
Ya'll have probably seen this, but anyway....
Killacycle New World Record 155 MPH! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ#)
And check out the tesla roadster as well, 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. And that's a production vehicle, not strictly a race machine.
J.
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There will always be traction issues with any vehicle that you are trying to acclerate. There may be some advantages to electric power in this area.
As a side note, there are jet powered cars as well. They are quite the anomoly. They have incredible thrust, but the first 200-300 feet it is comparatively slow, then goes like a raped ape the rest of the track. I'm not a big fan of "burner pops" and getting pelted with dust and cigarette butts, but every now and then it's ok to watch.
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I'm a fan of jet cars, simply because I'm a fan of jets. To me, the 2nd best sound in the world (behind a two-stroke) is a pair of Pratt & Whitney F100 low-bypass turbofan jet engines. Twenty points if anyone can tell me what airplane uses that engine configuration, Fifty if you can do it without looking it up.
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How about the cf100 Canuck.What can I say-makes sense to me-lol.
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I'm a fan of jet cars, simply because I'm a fan of jets. To me, the 2nd best sound in the world (behind a two-stroke) is a pair of Pratt & Whitney F100 low-bypass turbofan jet engines. Twenty points if anyone can tell me what airplane uses that engine configuration, Fifty if you can do it without looking it up.
SR-71 ???
Went down to the Udvar Hazy Center in DC, spent the better part of a day there, but I could spend days there... just an amazing exhibit!
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I don't know if you were submitting the SR-71 as your guess for what uses the F100 engines, or if you were just pointing out a great plane. If it was the latter, then I totally agree. The thing is a legend. If it was the former, then I'm sorry, but you can try again at no extra cost!
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How about an F15?Failing that,maybe a Piper Cub :)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Engine.f15.arp.750pix.jpg)
one of these goes into one of these......
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/USAF_F-15D_Top.jpg)
Ford832 is the winner... I had to Google it! :P
Funny enough a friend flew these for the Navy in the Top Gun program.....
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The PW100 is also used in the F-16 as a single engine aircraft, where as the F-15 uses dual PW100. Either way, that's a whole lot of thrust and ear drum rupturing sound!!!!
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The F-15 is the right answer. Going deeper into it (and remembering that I'm going from memory here) the original F-15A (which was around in the days of square-barrel Maicos) used the F100-PW-100 engine. The F-15C (which was around in the days of Bob Hannah) used the slightly less-powerful but far more reliable F100-PW-220 that is still the main F-15 powerplant today. A few F-15E models have been upgraded to the superior-in-every-way F100-PW-229 engine. You can tell which planes have the -229 by the flame coming out the back. If the engine's making enough power for it to be blue (in flight and broad daylight, not in a testing chamber), it's a -229.
I was into planes long before I became a two-stroke fanatic. But anyway, Ford 832 wins 50 points. That's precisely enough JETZ-Points to buy you a cookie. Go get yourself a cookie!
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I'd feel guilty eating the cookie alone as I have to admit I cheated as well.I "googled" my father-he worked on planes all his life in the military. :)
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Going back to the topic of bikes, I think it would be cool if someone made a turbine bike. Probably wouldn't work to well for motocross, but I think it would be perfectly okay on a street machine. Chrysler made a turbine car many years back, and rather than hooking it up to some pansy generator for electric power, they strapped that bad boy to a regular transmission. It only had 130bhp, but the torque was at 450lb-ft! This was back in '63 which was a long time ago in terms of turbines. A modern interpretation of a turbine powerplant would probably be quite effective, and because they have 1/5 the moving parts of a V8, they'd last forever. All you need are some really good bearings, like big versions of what you'd see in a supercharger (which spins faster than a jet engine).
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About a month ago a guy brought one to track. And I got a chance to ride one! I don't know if its the same make but it looks the same. Well all I can say it was a blast. It felt like a bicycle with the power of a ktm65. I'm sure that technology will get better and some day may catch up with traditional motorcycles. the only complaint was no transmission but that is what most riders are used to. The cost was around $7000 so that turned most people there off. Also there was no class that it could race in so interest was low about buying one. One of the local pros took it on the track and was going fast and getting alot of air on it and then the battery went dead. The sales rep said a second battery could be put in and away you would go but it cost an additional $3000. So cost is a problem.
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I really don't understand why so many people are against the idea. In my opinion this is a great thing for motocross. The problem is that they cost so much(electric bikes). Imagine it, an electric dirtbike, with nobbies and all, 50 ft. lbs. of torque, and only weighing 150 pounds. Now, if they could make these for 3500 each, they would for sure have something. Now, before you guys start attacking me on the range on these bikes, the crappy suspension, and the mickey mouse components, let me explain how this would be good for the sport. I don't think that these bikes would replace full on motocross or trail bikes, I don't think this at all. I think it would be a great way to have backyard tracks, and be able to practice in your backyard after work or school, or, imagine this, urban motocross. Imagine this at let's say a skate park, or just around town. Another great application would be Arenacross. The sport is so tight, and requires so little top speed that it would do just fine, and would be super quiet. Also, for endurocross. oh, and as for the batteries going in the landfill, this electric motorcycle company makes batteries that are completely bio-degradeable. You could eat it. Here is the link, zeromotorcycles.com
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Although it's late and I should be focusing on other things like Murray Rothbard lectures, I'm going to type out one of the stories from Monkey Butt. It's a story about the future of motorcycle riding, and I think you'll find it interesting. I'm putting it here because the bike in question is electric, sort-of. All credit, of course, goes to Super Hunky.
SUNDAY MORNING RIDE IN THE FUTURE
Author's note: I wrote this piece after a few good friends got arrested for riding in the hills, and received hefty fines. About two months later, the so-called 'sensitive land' they were riding on was bladed and condos were built on that spot. It made me think about the future...
A shaft of bright sunlight knifed through a gap in the curtains. It was this that caused Adam Spence to wake up.
When he did awake, he snapped his eyes open in excitement. This was Sunday morning. And that meant one thing: today was riding day. Today that good old dirt bike gets fired up and it's ride, ride, ride!
Let's see... time for a quick breakfast? Nope. It was almost 7:15. Time was ticking away.
Adam descended the shaft leading to the communal garage; his machine was stored in cubicle 14. There it was. Sleek, purposeful and mean looking. Jagged knobs bristled on the tires and the hydro-pneumatic suspension valves reflected light off their stainless metal surfaces.
The machine was a 125 amp Yamaha YZ-27-MX and was the finest money could buy. It handled like a dream and put out the maximum horsepower allowable under the current government regulations: 15 HP at the rear wheel. And it was all paid for; that was the best part.
Loading up took little time. Adam hand't been riding for over three months and was more eager than usual.
OK. Helmet, boots, gloves, goggles, protective clothing, mandatory wrist identification. Forget anything? Oh, Christ! Almost forgot the permit! Let's see now; where was it last? Near the dresser by the bed? Yeah, here it is. Man, you don't want to lose one of those recreational permits; they're way too hard to come by.
As Adam drove out to the main road, it was hard to restrain the excitement. Thoughts flickered through his mind, fun thoughts: "I wonder what I should ride first today? An enduro, or maybe a few hot laps around the motocross course? Or maybe I should simply spend most of the day in the desert? I've always loved to ride the desert. Oh well, I'll just make up my mind when I get there. That's whst always happens anyway."
An hour and a half later, Adam arrived at the State Multi-Recreational Track. It was hard to miss that giant building, covering nearly ten city blocks. He paid to enter the parking lot and let his vehicle follow the magnetic line to a slot on level three.
Adam presented his identification and permit at the window and was given his Class 4 badge, something very difficult to earn these days. This meant he was allowed to ride all types of tracks, except the roundy-round stuff, which he didn't much care for anyway.
The lift/hoist removed his machine from his vehicle and the lady at the window gave him an assigned number: Section 34B. Hot damn! The best section in the house! This was going to be a good day; Adam could just tell.
He entered the transporter tube and punched 34B on the console panel. Moments later, the doors whispered open and there he was. Section 34B, a favorite among riders all over the nation. Some people even drove hundreds of miles just to ride this beauty.
And there was his machine, sitting patiently with the energy transfer cord plugged into the power plant. Was it fully charged yet? Nope. The red light on the tank was still blinking. Adam slipped on all of his gear, the sound of the Velcro attaching strips music in his ears. Just as the last glove was locked into the sleeve, the red light on the tank quit blinking. Ready! The machine was 100 percent charged and set for a full ride.
Adam disconnected the power cord and pushed the machine over to the section entrance. Unsmiling, the attendant demanded to see his permit. A mild moment of panic hit Adam, but the permit was right there in his pocket where it was supposed to be. A selector was clipped to his handlebar and the attendant opened the door and let man and machine into the riding area.
It was beautiful! The large turnstile-like platform measured nearly 100 yards around at the other circumference, possibly the biggest and most demanding course in the country. Oh sure, there was a bigger one in Belgium, but that one had been built years ago and was nowhere near as elaborate as this beauty.
The texture of the dirt was perfect - as always. Loamy and soft, with no rocks. Bumps, ten-foot slopes and several heart-stopping jumps made this a rider's track. Not one of those dull tracks found in the smaller towns. This one was a test; a real test of the bike and the body.
Adam checked everything over carefully. Sixty pounds of pressure in the suspension, power unit fully charged, all ready. Now, what kind of riding?
How's about a little desert to start the day off right. He flipped the visual selector to Desert and almost immediately the platform started moving, like a giant turntable. The walls and ceiling came alive as cameras projected the proper image. Joshua trees flashed by, the sky was an incredibly eye-hurting blue, and the mountains in the distance loomed up high and proud.
Adam was so caught up with the beauty that he almost fell. Whuuup! Better pay attention to the business at hand. Those bumps will getcha, if you're not watching.
A series of whoop-dee-doos rippled up ahead, but the suspension did most of the work of soaking up the harsher jolts. Standing on the pegs did the rest.
Deep sand loomed up, the rutted wheel-grabbing kind. Adam got his weight back and rolled on the throttle. The bars waggled some. Not bad, but enough to demand no errors on the part of the rider.
Perspiration broke out on his brow and breathing became deeper. Dirt riding was hard work, indeed. A smooth section came up and Adam reached down to the Selector and deftly flicked the sound switch to 112 decibels on the "A" scale. Almost immediately, the sound of a barely-muffled expansion chamber rattled the platform, hammering his eardrums in the process. But the assault on his ears was music. Good music.
It was amazing how the sound of the exhaust synced perfectly with every nuance of his throttle hand. Tweak the throttle, and the crescendo blitzed upward; back off and the sound muted and popped. Bitchin'!
[...]
Adam glanced at his watch. Not much time left. Better get in some motocross before his riding period expired. Click.
Bodies hurtled by as they jumped the gate right in front of him. Even though he knew they were just images, it was still frightening. Adam scrambled for the first turn, passing several of the images and making contact with several more. Angrily, the buzzer warned him of his clumsiness. He made a mental note to be more careful; too many buzzer violations and that old riding permit would get yanked for six months or more.
The platform speeded up, as it always did for the motocross segment. Bumps that had previously been average, suddenly took on a new, more vicious character.
He had to ride wider and wider to make the turns, using all of the available platform and coming perilously close to leaving the platform at times.
Adam got caught up in the frenzy of competition, and worked the machine for all it was worth: thrust, slide, jump, pass, and weave in and out of traffic until his forearms were burning. But he still pushed harder and harder. And the harder he pushed, the better he rode. No buzzers snarled at him, even though he was riding right in the thick of all the action. Adam was completely caught up in the heat of competition when a loud bell sounded.
Then, everything stopped. All of the images disappeared. Motion ceased. The platform no longer moved. And the warning light on his tank flashed accusingly that his time was, indeed, up.
Reality was brought back with sudden harshness. Being yanked back to Earth this quickly was always depressing. It always seemed to happen during motocross. Adam made a mental note to try and ride enduros toward the end of his next ride.
As he was pushing his machine out of 34B, another eager rider was waiting at the entrance. Adam envied him, but, three months from now, he'd be back.
When he got to his vehicle, his machine was already loaded on the carriers for him, just one of the many niceties of this Multi Track. An undefinable feeling of depression settled over Adam as he drive back to his apartment. It sure would have been nice to ride a bit longer. Oh well.
Then he saw it. Among all the buildings by the MainWay, there was a section of open ground. Obviously, several older buildings had been torn down and the land was awaiting construction of the new buildings. But there it was: several acres of dirt. Real dirt. And it wasn't fenced in.
Adam pulled off at the next Loop and worked his way back to the construction site. No one was around. He was tempted... hell, why not? What could they do to him, anyway. He was sure that at least 30 minutes of power was left on the reserve units in his machine.
A few moments later, the bike was unladed and he flipped the lever to reserve. Sure enough, nearly a half hour left. He clicked the power plant on and checked everything over, mostly out of force of habit.
A dab on the left side engaged the convertor and the bike moved off Hey, this is really neat, thought Adam. He pitched the machine over and threw a rooster tail high into the air. Grinning like a man possessed, he slithered and slid all over the construction site. At the end of a very few minutes, Adam had a homemade track grooved in the dirt. He was panting so hard that he was forced to take a short breather. Wow, this was hard work! Sweat coursed down his brow and the salt stung his eyes. But he was happy.
Leaning forward on the bars, he studied the area around him. All those buildings and right in the middle, his own personal dirt riding area!
These were his last thoughts. A millisecond later, the sharp sound of a firearm cracked and echoed. The bullet entered Adam's forehead and passed through his brain. He was dead before his head slammed against the crossbar.
The little red light on his tank blinked. The Sunday morning ride was over.
YES! I typed all that in less than 45 minutes! Damn I'm tired!
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On a practical level there are two big draw backs. Firstly, while the electricity comes from burning fossil fuels there is no pollution saving, fossil burning power stations are hugely inefficient so you might as well put the fossil fuel into the machine itself. Secondly, the environmental impact of the battery production would probably make it as a whole less environmental friendly than a conventional motorcycle.
Against that, the world and the people in it being as they are, there is little doubt that the perception of such vehicles allied to the decreased noise levels may possibly make it viable to ride one of these off road in certain places where a conventional motorcycle couldn't be ridden, for a while anyway!
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The electric bike will be a part of the landscape at some point. This is not a very popular nor welcome discussion by many for multitudes of reasons.
Let's keep some thoughts in mind to offer perspective. The first VCR's (the contraptions that play video tapes) cost over $1,000.00 when they first came out. If you can find one for sale you will probably pay less than $30.00 for one today. When large quantities are manufactured the prices go down.
The same will happen with Electric Bikes and batteries... we are at the birth of these things. They will get more efficient and less expensive as technology advances. To think that battery technology or electric bikes are at the peak of where they can be is naive.
As for the production of electricity, as of 2006 this is the breakdown of different sources here in the USA.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Sources_of_electricity_in_the_USA_2006.png)
Since then there has been a big addition of Alternatives. Texas and New York now have huge wind farms, there are solar generating plants in the SouthWest... From my understanding going into the future there will be many different generating sources for electricity. Much will depend on where you live.
For instance in Iceland much of there heat and electricity is derived from Geo-Thermal means. In Germany you can not drive very far without bumping into solar panels. In Denmark, wind power is the dominent source of electricity.
People are creative and resourceful when given the chance and not blocked by folks that are content with the status quo.
Let's try to think outside the box.
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I agree that electric bikes will be good for those who want a nice ride after-work and don't want to drive a hunnert miles to do it. The argument that they get their power from fossil fuels has a couple of problems. First, as John pointed out, a lot of the power does not come from fossil fuels. Where I live, we get just about all of it from the Columbia River. Also, even if you do get power from fossil fuels, it's more efficient. Yes, it's a remarkably inefficient process, but you have to remember that you're comparing it to a small-scale internal-combustion engine with an emphasis on performance over efficiency. Electric power production is a more efficient source of energy "by-the-numbers" than direct mechanical use of a fossil fuel.
But again, I want to hold out for alternative FUELS that will run in existing bikes. I don't want to be forced to switch to electric or hydrogen or whatever. I'm willing to pay $15 a gallon to ride my Husky if it comes to that. Sound, smell, look, and feel of a 2T internal-combustion engine is the majority of what I like about them, and that's a powerful list of things that will be flat-out gone in an electric world.
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I think that the future will look alot different than many of us can imagine from where we stand at this moment.
You know just because I mentioned that the electric bike COULD be the future, does not mean that is the way it will go. It's just an idea and I thought it was worth discussing.
You can argue for or against anything in life... what will that get you?? Most likely a headache... give you an upset stomach... stress you to a level where there is danger you could blow up like an internal combustion engine running at redline with no oil.. (or use you're own flowery description here)
That was not the point of the opening post by any means...
Again this is not for everyone nor would I think that everyone would like it. That's fine and dandy to me.
Personally the appeal of being able to ride an electric mx bike in my back yard has tremendous appeal. Not having to drive 45 minutes to 3 hours to go to the practice track sounds like a great way to protect the environment. Remember your vehicle burns fuel and creates emissions when you drive to the track....
Would I want to watch motocross races where the bikes were totally silent?? I'm not so sure that I would. It would have changed too much from the sport that I grew up with and still love... and the two stroke is a big part of that experience.
Really this is not about saving the world as much it is looking to the future, thinking about and discussing options. Possibly having electric mx races in the inner city, could bring in new fans and racers... and introduce them to the motorized version... maybe we might find our next great mx racer this way?? You never know...
Like I said just thoughts, ideas and speculation.....
Smile... have fun... let you're imagination run wild!!! ;D ;D
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For those of you too young to remember, here is a little primer. When I was young we were told that by now, we would all have hover craft vehicles for mass transit, jet packs that mount to your back so you can fly around the neighborhood. You dinner would be a pill, that you could taste all the courses and be full from it. The "modern" kitchen still does not look like they said it would way back in 1970. I could go on and on. But I'll stop because my Mac just screwed me out of a whole paragraph.
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Read this book.....
(http://www.sffaudio.com/images07/BAWheresMyJetpack500.jpg)
While the future was nothing like we imagined it in the 50's and 60's... there are other great things about today... look at us right now.. a group of like minded (similar minded??) folks got together from all parts of the world to discuss our passion for two-strokes... you gotta admit it... that's cool...
By the way...... I always wanted one of these.....v
(http://www.metronetiq.com/archives/jetpack/SilverJetpack.jpg)
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John! google or youtube Yves Rossy!!!! ;)
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Even if its silent there is still the problem in some countries it would still not be legally to ride in the forest.
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Yves Rossy has balls of steel!! While I wanted one, I'd be afraid that I'd slam into some very hard object at high speed!
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/904/photogdactuel1462e8dyg6.jpg)
Yes metal-miracle... that is true... but there are also parts of the world where you can be killed for expressing your opinion if it doesn't go along with the government or the clan... as I said before it's not THE solution it is an interesting concept that is worth exploring....
8) 8) 8)
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I think that the future will look alot different than many of us can imagine from where we stand at this moment.
I used to sell cattle to a man who had spent his entire life as a cattle dealer, he was into his 80's and his physical health wasn't good but his mind was still as sharp as a razor. He'd been around a lot of corners, met a lot of people, observed a lot of stuff over the years, some of it good some of it bad, but as he always said if you can at least learn something from a bad situation you take the hard edge off it. He was very inauspicious, looked a bit like the sort of guy who'd be on the front of one of those really corny Irish postcards that people send home just to prove how primitive the paddies still are!, but he was a pleasure to talk to, providing of-course you had the wit to realise that he knew so much more that you!
Anyway, his take on such things was that for all the predictions made for the future, what actually does happen is usually never foreseen or predicted by anybody. I've paid heed to what he said since then and he's not too far wrong, so god knows what'll be on the marketplace in 2020!
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I thought this was a two stroke site that was dedicated to keeping the two stroke motorcycle alive, and to try and keep or get it back into pro motorcycle racing. If we are on here saying that we want to see advancements in the electric motorcycle, and say that we would buy one and ride it, what kind of message are we sending to people that don't view the two stroke as a viable option.
I think that we need to distance ourselves from these alternative options of motorcycling. We already have a different option which is our chief enemy...the four stroke.
You've thought outside of the box and didn't follow the crowd or drink the four stroke kool aid, so don't drink the electric bike juice, and reject it as a viable option also. Long live the two stroke motorcycle!!!
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Yes I have censored this thread in a big way!!
I will not tolerate mean statements, slander or hateful comments on this forum. Please re-read the forum rules (which will take less than a minute)
There are literally thousands of forums on the Internet where you can be mad, angry, curse, slander and create trouble. The Two Stroke Motocross Forum is not nor will it ever be that way.
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Dam,I've been busy the last few days and come back and see the negativity thread so came here to see what the hubbub was about-and it's gone-D'oh.Oh well.
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I stand by what I've said regarding electric bikes. I do believe they will find a market niche for those seeking playbikes, pitbikes, backyard bikes, and urban competition bikes. However, I also think that the internal combustion engine is too integral to the dirt-bike experience to be eliminated as the primary powerplant option, and alternative fuels will provide an avenue for a sustainable riding industry without sacrificing the core of what makes our bikes great.
That was a long sentence, and a really REALLY long sentence!
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I stand by what I've said regarding electric bikes. I do believe they will find a market niche for those seeking playbikes, pitbikes, backyard bikes, and urban competition bikes. However, I also think that the internal combustion engine is too integral to the dirt-bike experience to be eliminated as the primary powerplant option, and alternative fuels will provide an avenue for a sustainable riding industry without sacrificing the core of what makes our bikes great.
That was a long sentence, and a really REALLY long sentence!
I completely agree with you, in fact this is what i was trying to say. I don't think electric will replace internal combustion completely, I just don't. Now, what really adds to this, is your post about the algae being able to create fuels, if this is not a hoax, or a fake corporation, then, I would say, internal combustion engines are saved!
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I agree. I'm envisioning a world in which fuel economy only affects your wallet, and not your air or your politics. The fact that the US spends $300 Million in Iraq every DAY attests to the power that this innovation could have for us. Even if one thinks that global climate change is all a big hippie conspiracy, it's hard to deny the benefits of growing our gasoline in Alabama as opposed to shipping it from Saudi. Osama's bank account would be drained, and Obama's debt would start to get repaid. In the meantime, the wafting smoke of a poorly-tuned 2T would be admired for its lovely, all-natural, carbon-neutral odor of magnificence. All the new energy in the fuel comes from the sun. Algae are the most efficient users of sunlight on the planet; being able to create a carbon-bond with only 12 photons. Our solar panel guys have probably never even imagined such a capability.