Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: burn1986 on August 03, 2010, 08:49:54 AM
-
Well, I can honestly say that he is excited at this rule change. The conversation went better than I could have expected. He liked the proposal and stated that it was palatable, since it was not a large change. He went on to mention that he is tired of seeing the cost of the four stroke racing rise and the two stroke disappear. In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).
I asked him what the steps were for getting this in place. He said that he would open up discussions with Jeff Canfield (who he has already mentioned it to), Kevin Crowther (sp?) and the people over on the Supercross side. (He said Supercross was important since the FIM was involved). From this point he said he would get his boss involved (the director of AMA Pro Racing) and the decision would be made. He said that they would consider Cost, Safety, and Good for the Sport - Is it cost effective for the racer; Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others; and Is it good for the sport.
He asked if I could get him a copy of the petition (another one) and some cost comparisons for the modifications, along with the bikes in production right now that meet this category (which he said that this was actually his job to do, but this would help him a lot if I didn't mind getting it together). John Nicholas has gotten most of this already, so I will gather the information I need and put it all together. I will post it here for suggestions before I send it up.
All in all, it was a very encouraging conversation. I have no doubt that this guy is pro 2-stroke and wants to see it through. He was genuinely excited at the possibility of this thing getting approved since this rule would transcend over to Road Racing and other disciplines as well.
I know it's kind of hard to relay how a conversation went, but we both are confident that it will happen. The tone I got from him was that the AMA seems refreshed by the idea and is also aware that there is a growing problem with mx and sx, mainly the racing costs to the individual racer.
So, I will begin getting this stuff together and post it here, since I will probably need help organizing this.
It's still important to keep spreading the word about the petition. I would like to get about 2000 signatures. Man, that would be awesome: www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html (http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html)
Thanks,
Mark Slate
-
Good job!
-
Sounds like they may be ready for equal displacement.
-
Sounds like they may be ready for equal displacement.
Not to me...
He liked the proposal and stated that it was palatable, since it was not a large change.
-
Guys,
I am one of your 4 wheeled brethren from over at atvriders.com, namely the honda 250r area. I have made your petition aware to my group, and they have been signing this petition wildly, in case you haven't noticed from the large surge in signatures. Just wanted to let you know that we are fighting for the same cause. All of this is for the preservation of the 2 stroke. If enough of us are banded together, more 2 strokes will emerge, and we will all benefit from that. Thought you should know.
-
In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).
If the oppressors think we are asking for too little, They are probably right.
-
In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).
If the oppressors think we are asking for too little, They are probably right.
I bet that's not why he said that.
It would make more sense to declare 150 because of the market's enthusiastic response to the KTM 150 model.
-
uh-oh. my bullshit radar is going off with some of Al's wording:
Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others. Huh? I mean is he kidding?
Is it good for the sport. Translation - does it benefit our owners, namely the manufacturers.
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict right here and now that he's full of shit and that it's going to get torpedoed.
-
the ktm 150 is 144cc's...... the 150 is just the model #.
-
Hopefully it's not BS.Al Ludington isn't just some AMA boob.He's Miguel Duhamel's ex tuner.
Oh,and good job rablack-but while you have the right number of strokes,you still have too many wheels. ;)
-
uh-oh. my bullshit radar is going off with some of Al's wording:
Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others. Huh? I mean is he kidding?
Is it good for the sport. Translation - does it benefit our owners, namely the manufacturers.
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict right here and now that he's full of shit and that it's going to get torpedoed.
x2, and I am sure it would benefit dollar wise by getting more people to race, but what do you mean safety issues?
-
Hopefully it's not BS.Al Ludington isn't just some AMA boob.He's Miguel Duhamel's ex tuner.
Oh,and good job rablack-but while you have the right number of strokes,you still have too many wheels. ;)
x2 ;D ;D
good stuff burn, i reckon it sounds promising.
-
uh-oh. my bullshit radar is going off with some of Al's wording:
Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others. Huh? I mean is he kidding?
Is it good for the sport. Translation - does it benefit our owners, namely the manufacturers.
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict right here and now that he's full of shit and that it's going to get torpedoed.
Positive post of the day......... :-X
-
Well, I can honestly say that he is excited at this rule change. The conversation went better than I could have expected. He liked the proposal and stated that it was palatable, since it was not a large change. He went on to mention that he is tired of seeing the cost of the four stroke racing rise and the two stroke disappear. In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).
I asked him what the steps were for getting this in place. He said that he would open up discussions with Jeff Canfield (who he has already mentioned it to), Kevin Crowther (sp?) and the people over on the Supercross side. (He said Supercross was important since the FIM was involved). From this point he said he would get his boss involved (the director of AMA Pro Racing) and the decision would be made. He said that they would consider Cost, Safety, and Good for the Sport - Is it cost effective for the racer; Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others; and Is it good for the sport.
He asked if I could get him a copy of the petition (another one) and some cost comparisons for the modifications, along with the bikes in production right now that meet this category (which he said that this was actually his job to do, but this would help him a lot if I didn't mind getting it together). John Nicholas has gotten most of this already, so I will gather the information I need and put it all together. I will post it here for suggestions before I send it up.
All in all, it was a very encouraging conversation. I have no doubt that this guy is pro 2-stroke and wants to see it through. He was genuinely excited at the possibility of this thing getting approved since this rule would transcend over to Road Racing and other disciplines as well.
I know it's kind of hard to relay how a conversation went, but we both are confident that it will happen. The tone I got from him was that the AMA seems refreshed by the idea and is also aware that there is a growing problem with mx and sx, mainly the racing costs to the individual racer.
So, I will begin getting this stuff together and post it here, since I will probably need help organizing this.
It's still important to keep spreading the word about the petition. I would like to get about 2000 signatures. Man, that would be awesome: www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html (http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html)
Thanks,
Mark Slate
Good job Burn,it looks promising i have spread the petition to a few other sites im on to......Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaappppppppppppp ;D
-
Again, I appreciate the help and support. I think he just meant that 150 reads better in the rulebook than 144cc and would be more presentable, just like 300 reads better than 285 or 295.
Hey, does anyone know where to find some dyno reports on 144cc and 300cc horsepower results?
The petition is up to 1085!
-
I think he just meant that 150 reads better in the rulebook than 144cc and would be more presentable, just like 300 reads better than 285 or 295.
Ya, I thought the same thing, should be nice round numbers.
-
I am staying optimistic and would say that this is good news and a good start.Great job burn!I have passed it around to as many people as i could to sign.
-
I'm sorry if I sound abit cynical, but I'm not quite sure what it is that your going to acheive by this rule change.
Most countries around the world are currently running your proposed class structure and it doesn't make the slightest difference to the class. A 25cc increase isn't really going to set the world on fire.
Is this rule change at pro level only ? If so another pointless exercise, how many pro's race a 125 in the lites class currently, count them on one hand! Do you think the increase in 25cc will see pro's dumping their 250 4t's in droves and jumping ship to ride a 150 2t, the only people it will benefit is the riders currently on 125 2t's.
For a country that wants to be the leaders of the known motocross universe, you seem to only be playing catch up.
-
By the way, if this goes through, does that mean next year we'll be cheering on "Project 3 Hundred?"
:D
-
I'm sorry if I sound abit cynical, but I'm not quite sure what it is that your going to acheive by this rule change.
Most countries around the world are currently running your proposed class structure and it doesn't make the slightest difference to the class. A 25cc increase isn't really going to set the world on fire.
Is this rule change at pro level only ? If so another pointless exercise, how many pro's race a 125 in the lites class currently, count them on one hand! Do you think the increase in 25cc will see pro's dumping their 250 4t's in droves and jumping ship to ride a 150 2t, the only people it will benefit is the riders currently on 125 2t's.
For a country that wants to be the leaders of the known motocross universe, you seem to only be playing catch up.
Agree 100%, anything less than equal displacement/total annihilation is a joke. BUT since it's clear the AMA is totally biased in the 4 strokes favor, with this new rule you might see a few 2 strokes whereas now there are none. So i'll take what i can get until the current administration dies off and fairer minds prevail
-
I'm sorry if I sound abit cynical, but I'm not quite sure what it is that your going to acheive by this rule change.
Most countries around the world are currently running your proposed class structure and it doesn't make the slightest difference to the class. A 25cc increase isn't really going to set the world on fire.
Is this rule change at pro level only ? If so another pointless exercise, how many pro's race a 125 in the lites class currently, count them on one hand! Do you think the increase in 25cc will see pro's dumping their 250 4t's in droves and jumping ship to ride a 150 2t, the only people it will benefit is the riders currently on 125 2t's.
For a country that wants to be the leaders of the known motocross universe, you seem to only be playing catch up.
You're blaming the wrong country. This is in the hands of Japan and their money grabbing plan.
-
A 25cc increase in displacement maybe just enough to get the rider to belive he can win against the 4t he is going up against.We have all witnessed someone on a 125 clean house on a track filled with 250s and 500s. All I am saying is it could lead to the placibo effect. Then more and more people will belive they can as well.
-
The real threat is if riders on 150s start winning, then there will be an outcry. The new issue of Dirt Bike (Aug 2010) has the 125 class of the WORCS series which is basically all 144s. They have some short articles on a TM144, 150SX, CR144, and YZ144. The fully modified 150 sounds like it is totally bada--! The CR is stroked, ported/ head mods, fully modified and according to the article is one mean bike. I feel pretty confident that in the hands of a pro these bikes will start winning SX an MX.
-
By the way, if this goes through, does that mean next year we'll be cheering on "Project 3 Hundred?"
:D
Jet,i would have to say that thatwould be a real strong possibility. ;D
-
A 25cc increase in displacement maybe just enough to get the rider to belive he can win against the 4t he is going up against.We have all witnessed someone on a 125 clean house on a track filled with 250s and 500s. All I am saying is it could lead to the placibo effect. Then more and more people will belive they can as well.
I agree with that G-MONEY !!! Us 2-stroke fans have to start somewhere even if it's not equal displacement at first.
-
First... a big tip of the hat to burn1986 for taking this idea and running with it.
I for one appreciate your efforts and will do whatever can be done to support this.
For those who feel that equal displacement is the only way... I have to say that about a year ago I would have agreed with you 100%. But with all the stuff that went down over the past year, including the outcry of unfair by the manufacturers, I now feel that equal displacement at this very moment is a dream.
While this proposal asks for a small increase in displacement, this may be enough to tip the scale and get some privateers out there racing two-strokes.
Over the past year there has been an increase in the numbers of two-strokes that have been signing up for Pro Nationals. At this level every little cc increase will be helpful and useful.
I feel that this is a step in the right direction. Enough increase in the two-stroke to make a slight difference, but not so much that it would scare the manufacturers into being afraid and blocking the change.
Sometimes you have to give a little to gain a little.
Keep up the great work!