Post by: mxracer239 on December 28, 2012, 08:54:18 PM
Post by: cnrcpla on December 28, 2012, 10:22:10 PM
My dealer started carrying 85's and 125's in addition to 250's that they already carried. They still sell thumpers but hey its a start.
Post by: mxracer239 on December 28, 2012, 10:35:53 PM
Post by: cnrcpla on December 28, 2012, 10:37:08 PM
Post by: mxracer239 on December 28, 2012, 10:48:43 PM
cant afford to race an mantain the 4strokes
Post by: Stusmoke on December 28, 2012, 11:16:12 PM
Post by: rookie on December 29, 2012, 02:47:54 AM
Post by: HCE on December 29, 2012, 02:55:06 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 29, 2012, 03:39:53 AM
Post by: GlennC on December 29, 2012, 05:35:21 AM
Last weekend the sales manager invited me to ride with the crew in the local desert, 7 bikes showed up, 5 were 2 strokes. We did about 90 miles of mixed single track, sand washes and fire roads. After we were sitting around having a beer and one of the four stroke guys was talking about getting a 125.
The tide is turning my friends...
Post by: chump6784 on December 29, 2012, 06:42:58 AM
Post by: twosmoke595 on December 29, 2012, 07:24:32 AM
That is incredible. I wonder also if it has anything ti do with the yz250f still being carbed and being seen as a lesser bike than the other brands and the bad rap the backwards engine yz450f has gotten lately. If I were to buy a four stroke at the moment it would not be a Yamaha as the other brands seem to be a better buy anyway. I see a lot more ktm and Kawasaki's at the track now than ever before, it used to be majority Yamaha but seems they are losing market share. They are just lucky they have a two stroke range to fall back on
the yam is not a lesser bike by any means. still is a strong reliable engine that can run with any of the other brands. the 450 only has a bad rap because james didnt like it (which i dont care at all if he did or not) its a good bike, just not for james. if i had my choice of a brand new 250f it would be yamaha
i bet more than anything its the lack of doing anythign with their current product line. they haven't changed their 85 since like 03
their 125 since 06
250 2t since 06
250f since 2010
450 since 2010
lack of change is what kills business. but i'm guessing that yamaha is about to do soemthign big, whether it be 4 stroke, 2 stroke, whatever. In the next couple years yamaha will do something groundbreaking again like they did with the yz400. That's the only explanation for their staleness over the last few years
Post by: Stusmoke on December 29, 2012, 07:32:06 AM
That is incredible. I wonder also if it has anything ti do with the yz250f still being carbed and being seen as a lesser bike than the other brands and the bad rap the backwards engine yz450f has gotten lately. If I were to buy a four stroke at the moment it would not be a Yamaha as the other brands seem to be a better buy anyway. I see a lot more ktm and Kawasaki's at the track now than ever before, it used to be majority Yamaha but seems they are losing market share. They are just lucky they have a two stroke range to fall back on
the yam is not a lesser bike by any means. still is a strong reliable engine that can run with any of the other brands. the 450 only has a bad rap because james didnt like it (which i dont care at all if he did or not) its a good bike, just not for james. if i had my choice of a brand new 250f it would be yamaha
i bet more than anything its the lack of doing anythign with their current product line. they haven't changed their 85 since like 03
their 125 since 06
250 2t since 06
250f since 2010
450 since 2010
lack of change is what kills business. but i'm guessing that yamaha is about to do soemthign big, whether it be 4 stroke, 2 stroke, whatever. In the next couple years yamaha will do something groundbreaking again like they did with the yz400. That's the only explanation for their staleness over the last few years
Apart from the bit about a YZ250F being my go to choice for a 250F, I agree completely.
Although the YZ250F is crying out for a new engine. Since its introduction its only received revisions and not a completely new engine as far as I know. It might be a reliable motor, but its excessively expensive to rebuild. I was told about 4 grand for a bottom end only. In Australia
Yamaha is definitely about to do something huge with their YZFs. They've been banking their cash for 3 year models now, biding their time for a total overhaul I would reckon. 2013 model was BNG I think.
Post by: chump6784 on December 29, 2012, 07:44:21 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 29, 2012, 01:00:42 PM
The Yamaha has the lowest power output of any 250f from the big 5 and that is a big deal on a small bore. The buying public are generally pretty dim and if the buying public see James Stewart having trouble on a bike it will turn them off. I rode a backwards engine yzf and hated it but I also didn't like the forward engine yzf either
I think even the Yamaha beats the husky TC250r though. Which is just plain sad.
Post by: SachsGS on December 29, 2012, 03:04:27 PM
Post by: mxracer239 on December 29, 2012, 04:25:18 PM
Post by: cnrcpla on December 29, 2012, 04:54:32 PM
Post by: chump6784 on December 29, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
Suzuki still makes the 250, just not in the states, I think...About six months ago I was at a Suzuki dealership and there was a 250 on the floor. I checked the vin and the 10th character was a letter, I think A or B, so it was definitely built in 2010 or 2011 so even though they were selling them as 2008 models they had been built after that.
For the 2012 season Suzuki Australia had the 125 and 250 listed on their website but I checked the other day and the only two strokes on there now are the 85's so I am assuming that Australia will no longer receive the bigger two strokes
.My guess is Suzuki did a small run of two strokes to gauge interest but around here they didn't sell that well and now it looks as though they are pulling the plug in the Australian market. The story was Suzuki were clearing old stock in their warehouses but that doesn't explain the newer vin number. As the two stroke offerings get less and less the ones that stayed in the game will reap the rewards.
Post by: beaner on December 29, 2012, 09:28:55 PM
I think even the Yamaha beats the husky TC250r though. Which is just plain sad.
I think the TC250 Husky makes more power than the Suzuki, Honda, and Yamaha. The only ones that make more power, I believe, are KTM, and Kawi.
Things were really quiet over at Suzuki and then U.S. Suzuki declared bankruptcy.
That was their automotive business. How is it pertinent to the two stroke discussion?
Post by: twosmoke595 on December 30, 2012, 12:49:19 AM
The Yamaha has the lowest power output of any 250f from the big 5 and that is a big deal on a small bore. The buying public are generally pretty dim and if the buying public see James Stewart having trouble on a bike it will turn them off. I rode a backwards engine yzf and hated it but I also didn't like the forward engine yzf either
with their 450 its like this.
because it has a reverse engine, it has a light front end feeling. But since it is a 4 stroke, it has a heavy front end feeling. With that being said, those 2 pushing and pulling against each other cant' make it handle as well as it could, which is why dr. d and many other companies have made a relocation kit.
it has conflicting handling characteristics which made it an odd feeling for some people. I've ridden one and it's a nice bike for sure, has a big feeling, it handled a bit differently but nothing i couldn't adjust to, like with any bike. One weird thing i noticed though was the airbox noise, but that's it. If i had the money i'd have every type of bike. 125/250f/250 2t/450/500/700/800 raptor/etc
Post by: Stusmoke on December 30, 2012, 01:16:34 AM
The Yamaha has the lowest power output of any 250f from the big 5 and that is a big deal on a small bore. The buying public are generally pretty dim and if the buying public see James Stewart having trouble on a bike it will turn them off. I rode a backwards engine yzf and hated it but I also didn't like the forward engine yzf either
with their 450 its like this.
because it has a reverse engine, it has a light front end feeling. But since it is a 4 stroke, it has a heavy front end feeling. With that being said, those 2 pushing and pulling against each other cant' make it handle as well as it could, which is why dr. d and many other companies have made a relocation kit.
it has conflicting handling characteristics which made it an odd feeling for some people. I've ridden one and it's a nice bike for sure, has a big feeling, it handled a bit differently but nothing i couldn't adjust to, like with any bike. One weird thing i noticed though was the airbox noise, but that's it. If i had the money i'd have every type of bike. 125/250f/250 2t/450/500/700/800 raptor/etc
Me too hey. I would love to pick up a 2013 KTM 250SXF along with a 2013 150sx. The 250F I would just want to see how far they've come. Last 250F I rode was an 07 CRF250R (useless POS)
Post by: cnrcpla on December 30, 2012, 03:55:15 AM
Quote
About six months ago I was at a Suzuki dealership and there was a 250 on the floor. I checked the vin and the 10th character was a letter, I think A or B, so it was definitely built in 2010 or 2011 so even though they were selling them as 2008 models they had been built after that.That's a shame, they should test out their 2t's in this day where people seem to be turning towards them. I would probably buy a 2013 RM250, I have wanted one even thought their engine is basically the same as Yamaha YZ engines.
For the 2012 season Suzuki Australia had the 125 and 250 listed on their website but I checked the other day and the only two strokes on there now are the 85's so I am assuming that Australia will no longer receive the bigger two strokes
My guess is Suzuki did a small run of two strokes to gauge interest but around here they didn't sell that well and now it looks as though they are pulling the plug in the Australian market. The story was Suzuki were clearing old stock in their warehouses but that doesn't explain the newer vin number. As the two stroke offerings get less and less the ones that stayed in the game will reap the rewards.
Post by: Stusmoke on December 30, 2012, 08:02:35 AM
Post by: shanes on December 30, 2012, 08:53:00 AM
Post by: rookie on December 30, 2012, 09:05:09 AM
Post by: eprovenzano on December 30, 2012, 01:58:26 PM
2 stroke value is going UP dudes!!Look at the value of a used smoker... they keep climbing. Yes the supply is getting smaller, but the demand for smokers is strong, and getting stronger... I know of several guys (staunch 4 stroke guys) that are looking at picking up a smoker. They claim its as a 2nd bike... sure it is... I foresee them picking up something, rebuilding it and then unloading the stroker...
Post by: chump6784 on December 30, 2012, 03:47:40 PM
Yamaha has the lowest power figure of any of the bikes
Post by: SachsGS on December 30, 2012, 04:15:26 PM
Post by: _X_ on December 30, 2012, 04:15:41 PM
Post by: beaner on December 30, 2012, 06:34:57 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on December 31, 2012, 12:12:21 AM
2 stroke value is going UP dudes!!Look at the value of a used smoker... they keep climbing. Yes the supply is getting smaller, but the demand for smokers is strong, and getting stronger... I know of several guys (staunch 4 stroke guys) that are looking at picking up a smoker. They claim its as a 2nd bike... sure it is... I foresee them picking up something, rebuilding it and then unloading the stroker...
Don't you mean they will TRY to unload the stroker?
Post by: chump6784 on December 31, 2012, 12:41:58 AM
The yamaha is still at the bottom of the class though. No wonder there are still 2011 models sitting on dealer floors, the only other mfg i have seen with that problem over here is husky
Post by: Stusmoke on December 31, 2012, 02:33:26 AM
Post by: bearorso on January 01, 2013, 08:53:26 AM
Dirt Bike magazine must have got a good husky, MXA and motorcycle-usa both complain about the husky having weak power. The rest of the bikes are all relative to each other though. strange
The yamaha is still at the bottom of the class though. No wonder there are still 2011 models sitting on dealer floors, the only other mfg i have seen with that problem over here is husky
See the text exposed in the bottom of that Graph picture: "It needs more motor, pure and simple". That's in reference to the Husky. As is the "very low expectations".
As for the shop 'sending back their 4 Strokes'. The US, or where ever it was, must have very different / flexible 'Floor Plans', to other places, for a dealer to be able to return bikes. Whatever the reality, I'd say the dealer lost a fair bit of money, returning them. Poor blighters. Unless Yamaha were transferring them to a dealer(s) that needed them.
I just had a mate of mine, read the thing about only 2ts being in the showroom. He offered another take on it. That being, " well, they are sitting on the showroom floor, 'cause they can't sell them". Be wary - what we 2t 'preferrers' tend to come out with, can often be thrown right back at us............. I don't agree with him, but he did point out that things can be interpreted very differently, depending on ones viewpoint.
Post by: Stusmoke on January 01, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
Post by: bearorso on January 02, 2013, 05:05:47 PM
Your buddy is either stupid, ignorant or both. Two strokes sell faster, blind freddy can see that.
I'd not argue with that, at times
. Probably since bugger all are now produced as full sized bikes. Other than KTMs - the head of KTM has openly stated that the EXC 300 is their single, biggest selling model ( well, Austrian produced model - the India produced 125 /200 Dukes would sell more, by now, just in India /Asia alone, I'd say) bike.
But, as I wrote, there are plenty of ways to interpret that "no 4ts on the showroom floor" type of statement.
And a lot of 4t 'Huggers', will think just the way as my mate said it. Mind you, He, was certainly saying it in a rather sarcastic tone.
Post by: Stusmoke on January 02, 2013, 11:11:12 PM