Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => Non-Moto => Topic started by: opfermanmotors on September 07, 2010, 03:13:43 PM
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We told you in our last Save The Trails alert that Voting Works and it does. Many of you took two minutes to vote for Ideas in the America Great Outdoors Initiative. Your votes catapulted Ideas like "Enhancing OHV Opportunities on Public Lands", "More Than Enough Wilderness" and "Preserving OHV Recreation Use For Families" to take the top spots, as you can see in the table below left.
However that was back on 7/25/2010. Since that time apparently the anti access folks have been scrambling to negate all of your votes by asking their members to DEMOTE all the Ideas you thought were good and PROMOTE ideas about land closure, as you can see in the 9/2010 table below right.
Take a few minutes and Vote: http://ideas.usda.gov/ago/ideas.nsf/product (http://ideas.usda.gov/ago/ideas.nsf/product) to turn the tables, take back our public lands to keep them open for our children.
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6053/trails.png)
WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT?
A Report will be given to the President next month showing the Top Rated Ideas, so we have a month to Take Back the High Ground and be sure the Ideas we like are on top. We can easily do this, after all we are the majority. So now it is time to show them they awakened the sleeping giant. Please go to the site and see for yourself and PLEASE VOTE FOR (PROMOTE) any IDEAS you think are GOOD and (DEMOTE) any IDEAS you think are BAD
http://ideas.usda.gov/ago/ideas.nsf/product (http://ideas.usda.gov/ago/ideas.nsf/product)
Here is the list we provided of IDEAS to PROMOTE and DEMOTE
http://www.savethetrails.us/AGO-Vote.html (http://www.savethetrails.us/AGO-Vote.html)
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Done. I went through all the ones highlighted on that site, and promoted the ones that sounded good to me. That is, everything that seeks to promote more opportunity for recreation of all sorts on public lands. I want the "We can use this area, but YOU can't" garbage to be ended.
There was also one about solar and wind energy, which while it would be great for reducing pollution, would have the potential to eat into land area. The creator of that "idea" recommends nuclear power instead, which in the 21st century is extremely safe and efficient, with modern plants able to actually get power from what is now nuclear waste, and the waste Uranium is of a suitable grade for use in medicine. Sounds good to me.
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There was also one about solar and wind energy, which while it would be great for reducing pollution, would have the potential to eat into land area. The creator of that "idea" recommends nuclear power instead, which in the 21st century is extremely safe and efficient, with modern plants able to actually get power from what is now nuclear waste, and the waste Uranium is of a suitable grade for use in medicine. Sounds good to me.
I think that you are a bit mis-informed with this idea.... most of the proponents of solar energy have stated over and over that the best are to place panels is on rooftops instead of using ground space to create solar farms.
As for the Nuclear power plant waste, well that is a gift that keeps on giving. It would be absolutely insane to think that the waste uranium could be re-used for anything. There is too much of it, besides the problem is much bigger than you know.
As an example, my dad was an Iron Worker and one of the jobs he had was removing a 50 ton beam from the Indian Point Nuclear power plant. Why would they have to remove a 50 ton beam from an existing building? Because it had been contaminated by radiation!!
Now think about that for a moment. this is one power plant and just one beam at 50tons. Whose backyard do you want to put that into?
To go back in history a bit, the first power plants dumped the used uranium into 55 gallon drums which were dumped into the ocean. How long do you think a barrel will last in salt water?
Since the radioactivity will last for thousands of years.. there is no real good solution.
You can read more about it here....
http://library.thinkquest.org/3471/nuclear_waste_body.html (http://library.thinkquest.org/3471/nuclear_waste_body.html)
Once you truly understand the dangers in Nuclear Energy, alternatives begin to look better and better. If our government spent 1/10 of what they spend on oil exploration, subsidies and wars to steal oil from other nations on R&D solutions to the energy problem, we would have a solution that could be implemented and put into practice within 10 years.
And most likely the USA would never have to import another drop of oil from any other part of the world again. We would have plenty from wells in this country for the uses that we'd still require it for.
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which brings us helium 3 and why we need to get to the moon now...
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I was a little suspicious about the medical Uranium thing, but the waste disposal is simply not a problem. As far as solar panels on peoples' roofs, I've got no problem with that at all. Solar power (and wind, for that matter) only becomes a problem when it starts taking up land that could and should be used for other purposes.
As far as local radiation at the plant itself, levels of radiation are never really all that significant. In fact, the workers and neighbors of a coal powerplant encounter more radiation than those of a nuclear plant, because of the trace amounts of uranium in the coal that is blasted into the environment by the open exhaust. Nuclear plants are closed systems.
As for the waste itself, I'm sure you have to realize that they don't just use 55 gallon drums anymore. I saw a demonstration recently where they took a Geiger counter up to one of the concrete containers. They got a few clicks as a background reading from the sun and the dirt and such, and when they pointed it at the container the radiation was still at the background level. Then there were the tests where the transport containers were rammed by a train at 80 miles an hour, then bathed in burning jet fuel for a few hours, but the container wasn't compromised. It didn't even get hot inside.
With that kind of containment technology, I'd feel safe to have one sitting in my back yard. But fortunately, they're not going to put them in anyone's back yard. They're going to bury them deep in a mountain facility (Yucca Mountain) that is literally on big shock absorbers so that even an earthquake would not compromise its integrity. A nuclear bomb wouldn't be enough to crack into the planned facility, either. Once they get this thing up and running, the problem will simply disappear into a hole.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4133810371275373899# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4133810371275373899#)
Aside from all that, I think dried algae pellets can also be used as an energy source. Algae grow very quickly and are the most efficient users of sunlight known to man, requiring only 12 photons (yes, photons) to create a hydrogen bond. They only need three things to grow, namely sun, CO2 and water. The sun is easy to find in any barren wasteland, the CO2 is already in the atmosphere as we all know (although you could capture the CO2 from production points and sell that to the algae producers to boost production). Water is easy as well, because the algae don't care if they're getting fresh water, saltwater, or even waste sewage. The resulting algae can be used to produce a crude oil alternative, or can be made into pellets to be used in place of coal in existing coal infrastructure. All carbon-neutral, of course.
Ultimately, though, I don't think anyone should be deciding what kind of energy form wins out in the future. I think it would be best to implement a system whereby the costs of environmental damage are put upon the damager, and then let economic forces take it from there.
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which brings us helium 3 and why we need to get to the moon now...
I read a great book from Homer Hickman called Back to the Moon, it was all about a bunch of Privateers getting to the moon to pick up some Helium 3.... cool book.
Jetz... they better have a really, really big hole for all the waste.... if they continue to expand atomic plants there will be more and more waste.. not a sustainable future as I see it.....
As for the waste being safe... well that's a topic for another post... this is the earth and it is not just a big rock, it is a living, breathing mass of molten rock and metal surrounded by plates the shift and move. Since this mass is hurtling through space there is always the possibility that something very large could land on the planet causing a change of some kind.
Not trying to match point for point, just trying to say that the issue is much bigger than it at first seems.
As for the size of the US, if you want to see how big it truly is, try driving across large sections of it. There are literally miles and miles of untouched land, farmland and aprons on the side of interstates that could be utilized if needed to install wind and solar.... that would not interrupt anyone's uses of the land for recreation.
The real issue is that power sports users, bicyclists and hikers all really enjoy the same land for recreation. Since there are those that have no respect for others rights, anger and resentment build and people try to through out the group they feel is disrupting their right to enjoy said property.
It happened to me in the 1980's in Westchester county.. just north of New York City. There was hundreds of acres of private land that had horse trails, which they opened to mountain bikes. Unfortunately the mountain bike riders did not show any respect to the horses or riders. Coming up at them at high speed and cursing them to get out of the way.
What do you think happened?
In no way could you blame the folks on horses, they reacted to the stupidity and actions of a large number of mountain bikers. The land was used for horse trails for centuries and the owners allowed mountain bikes to use the land, but they could not handle the responsibility.
The question is, can off-road motorcycle riders handle the responsibility and show respect to others who use the land? If not, there will be no place to enjoy riding your bikes.... it's the way of the world.
Instead of fighting the people, my question is why don't you talk to them and find out what bothers them most about motorcycles using the land. I'll bet you any amount of money that they were accosted or almost run down by motorcycles while in an attempt to enjoy the same things that we all do.
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Today's Nuclear Power is based on Fission (it's unnatural!), which is the splitting of particles and it does produce a lot of radioactive waste. However, if they can find a way to do Fusion (Fusing of two particles, natrual! The sun does it! it's organic!) cleanly (that is, without a Fission trigger) and without requiring too much energy this actually produces 4x as much power as Fission and produces very little radioactive waste.
Unfortunately, requires a lot of energy since there is a barrier (called electrostatic repulsion) which two particles repell each other and find the best path to coexist. The sun gets around this by being so large it's gravity fuses the particles together.
The sun does it and its keeping the sun running for a very long time. Since this occurs naturally in nature, I think we should adopt the name "Organic Nuclear Power". I'm all in favor of Organic Nuclear Power.
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Fission isn't actually unnatural. As was pointed out in that video, there have been several naturally-occurring fission reactors found underground. It's not organic because there's no carbon involved, as far as I know, which is the litmus test for the term "organic." But considering coal is an extremely organic material, and we don't call that organic power, I think that sort of terminology is a little silly.
I agree, however, that if they can get fusion to work it'll be a revolution.
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Ya, I know, I'm poking fun at "Organic" food b/c it annoys me. I don't know about you but what's the difference between an Organic Banana and non-organic Banana? Is the non-organic Banana made of steel?
BTW, Fusion can produce Carbon since it creates heavier substances, hence it could be considered "Organic" :)
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Ya, I know, I'm poking fun at "Organic" food b/c it annoys me. I don't know about you but what's the difference between an Organic Banana and non-organic Banana? Is the non-organic Banana made of steel?
BTW, Fusion can produce Carbon since it creates heavier substances, hence it could be considered "Organic" :)
I agree >:(
I used to be involved in the apple orchard industry ( most of my life ) and the new in thing in the last 10 years is "Organic " apples.
The only sprays allowed are Copper & Sulfur.
Because the sprays have limited ability to fight of diseases you have to "nuke" the trees with this stuff.
Look up copper spray and see what it says.It is a heavy metal which stays in the soil for years. We could not graze sheep in the organic orchards over the winter or it would poison them :-[
But it is OK for human consumption ? :-X. Over a period of time the soil is so satuated with copper you can not grow anything.Normally 10 years or so.
In the normal IPF orchards the sprays used today are completely biodegradable and even the worst of them there is no traces in the fruit after 3 weeks. Fruit doesnt get to the supermarket for at least 6 weeks from picking.
I have lost count of the amount of arguements i have had with greenies over this.
Would you rather have an "Organic " fruit laced with a heavy metal or a " Chemical" fruit with no residue what so ever ?
Same goes for organic Veges as well.
I know what i would rather eat.
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Penn and Teller did an episode of their Bullshit show about organic stuff. They even did a taste test with random strangers on the street. They told the people they had a regular banana, and an organic banana, and told them which was which. However, they actually lied. In reality every person in the test ate two halves of the same banana.
Caution, there is some significant profanity in this show, but it is very entertaining and informative. Biased as hell, but informative.
Penn & Teller Organic Food is Bullshit! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M4MiobwycE#ws)
Penn &Teller Organic Food is Bullshit! (Part2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L20Gf7E-yrw#ws)
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let me say this, nuclear is the future, uranium is possibly not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3)
Penn and teller are pretty straight forward, but to vulgar.
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But I think we can all agree that, Uranium or not, it's a damn sight better than coal!
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true. But people really need to get there facts straight about nuclear power. Nuclear energy makes wind/solar energy pointless.
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true. But people really need to get there facts straight about nuclear power. Nuclear energy makes wind/solar energy pointless.
Not so sure what you mean about getting the facts straight about nuclear power... maybe you could explain??
Is it anything like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster)
or this?
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1887705_1862264,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1887705_1862264,00.html)
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not even close. Nuclear energy is actually one of the cleanest way's to produce electricity. As I have said in a high school project about nuclear energy, most of the issues are caused by human error. Yes it has its problems but so does mining for coal, drilling for deep sea oil, etc.
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John, you do realize that the Chernobyl Disaster happened on a reactor that was not only completely different from anything used in the US, but also poorly designed, poorly built, poorly maintained, and illegally running with all the safety equipment shut off, right?
Just fast-forward to the 30 minute mark on that first video I posted. The dweeby scientist guy tells all.
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Guys... calm down... I understand your passion for nuclear energy...
I have friends that support the children of Chernobyl... the after effects are the sad part of any disaster, but it's not newsworthy nor do people want to really know about all the silly little details.
I get it... you don't agree with me.. that's fine.
What disturbs me most is that no one made comment one about what I talked about at the end of my longish comment...
Can we now switch back to the OP???
Thanks!
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On that note:
TRAIL SABATOGE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udMMtJIHdFs#)
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Most of the sabotage that I've seen on trails is done by the Forest Service. They get a big bulldozer and create a giant pile of dirt at the trailhead, complete with a bunch of really deep cuts in the ground from the caterpillar tracks on the bulldozers. Apparently the idea is to make the environment more beautiful, but I don't see how they're accomplishing that, especially when you climb over the mound of dirt and notice that further on, they cut down live trees to further block the trail.
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I've often ridden in the U.S. at OHV areas such as Little Naches, Cle Elum and Mt. St.Helens. Has any one done a study on how tourists such as myself impact the local economies? I think if a study were done the results would be quite surprising and might give the opposition pause to reconsider their arguments. I'm quite certain the ATV contingent would be interested in what is happening as well.
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I've often ridden in the U.S. at OHV areas such as Little Naches, Cle Elum and Mt. St.Helens
Someone just fell 700 feet off the side of one of the trails at Cle Elum. I have not been there but one of the trails is along side a straight cut rock cliff and his handle bars hit the side and he went over.
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Someone just fell 700 feet off the side of one of the trails at Cle Elum. I have not been there but one of the trails is along side a straight cut rock cliff and his handle bars hit the side and he went over.
sketch!
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The first time my friends took me to Cle Elum we rode a canyon trail that was suitable only for mountain goats. At one point you had to lean your bike out over a cliff to get around a rock outcropping and then yank it back in towards the trail before you went over the edge. I was white as a ghost and my friends were laughing at me. I did get even on a future ride. ;)
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What'd you do to get even? Make someone ride a Suzuki TM400?
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Ah Jetz, you have yet to learn the weekend bloodsport of trail riding with your buddies. You see, Cle Elum was in retaliation for a previous ride where I had lured my south of the border friends into the deepest, darkest depths of the westcoast rainforest. Think of a perfect setting for a "swamp thing" movie. A place where a friend had sunk his XR280 10 minutes into the ride, only to extract himself after a 30 minute profanity laced kicking frenzy where every treetop in the vicinity had been coated with thick, black mud. A place where another riding partner had wedged his YZ400F so tightly between two stumps that it took everything we had to extract the bike ( he promptly sold the Yamaha realizing had it been a race he would have DNF'd). It was evil.
But to answer your question, at the end of that ride I was smiling like a Chershire cat while my friends were coated in a thick layer of dust, their jersy's hanging in ribbons from side swiping blowdown.
That is of course, until the next ride.