Post by: miedosoracing on October 30, 2011, 08:49:05 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on October 30, 2011, 09:11:42 PM
I hate to bring up old stuff but in 2001, the Yamaha YZ125 had a higher top speed than a KTM 200... Of course the KTM had more power and was faster out of the corners but at the very top (not a drag race but max speed), it was all YZ.
Putting the 139 kit on the YZ made it faster in the corners AND on top.
That is apples to apples. When you compare apples to pears (2T vs 4$), you have to take ito account the better application of power advantage of the 4$ but I would guess a 144 should be able to take it in max speed with improved gearing.
Inaddition, power isn't the advantage that the 2T brings to the table. WEIGHT is (both "feel" and on the scales). You can take two identical weighted motorcycles and the 2T will always "feel" lighter due to it's lower CoG and less rotating mass.
Post by: eprovenzano on October 30, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
Let's take that one step further... If the two of you have equal talent and equal fitness, do you feel your smoker would win on the track?
Post by: SachsGS on October 30, 2011, 11:13:35 PM
Post by: burn1986 on October 30, 2011, 11:23:21 PM
You're still looking at a high performance 4-stroke that is still almost twice the displacement. And it has a larger power spread, and more torque. I'm not surprised that it won out. The power spread of a 250 s-stroke compared to a 250F is way more even. Even though the 2-stroke makes more peak power, the 250F makes up for it with power spread, making them virtually equal.
Post by: rookie on October 30, 2011, 11:26:27 PM
Post by: juliend on October 30, 2011, 11:41:51 PM
Whew, that's a relief! I thought something really bad had happened.
You're still looking at a high performance 4-stroke that is still almost twice the displacement. And it has a larger power spread, and more torque. I'm not surprised that it won out. The power spread of a 250 s-stroke compared to a 250F is way more even. Even though the 2-stroke makes more peak power, the 250F makes up for it with power spread, making them virtually equal.
This.....
Post by: miedosoracing on October 30, 2011, 11:55:34 PM
The good news, is hp wise, I'm pretty sure it was dead even. So anyone know the hp for a 2011 KX250F? Second, yes it was on pavement. The thing is, here is why my opinion stands. Like Burn said If we wanna compare, the 250F has smoother broader power. So although these two seem to be equal, you gotta compare the whole track. So the question was asked, if the same rider was on both bikes, who would win. If the rider never ever made a mistake, the 250F would out perform the 144, just on the mere fact that it has an easier time doing certain corners and jumps. Then, add in the fact that no one, ever does a complete moto, without atleast a small mistake. I feel the 2 stroke cc vs 4 stroke cc is a fair fight. Again, it's my opinion, but I just think the 250 vs 250 is fair. Something else to keep in mind here guys. My bike is about as maxed as I can go. Gorr porting and cylinder/head mods. Cases ported and matched. So my point is, the 250F as stock has a lot of potential still too, as we know Pro Circuit gets about 10 more hp.
Post by: streaks383 on October 31, 2011, 12:58:53 AM
Post by: miedosoracing on October 31, 2011, 01:24:31 AM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on October 31, 2011, 03:09:03 AM
I also think the 144 would be better in the Vet Pro class (though probably not the Senior classes). The vets would know how to take advantage of the smaller lighter bike.
Finally, if you were to run a sub-150cc in something like the Monster Cup (or whatever it was called) where the production rule book was thrown out the window, I would think you would be able to produce an sub 150 pound 150cc 2T and really scare the big thumpers!
Post by: GlennC on October 31, 2011, 04:12:18 AM
Whew, that's a relief! I thought something really bad had happened.
You're still looking at a high performance 4-stroke that is still almost twice the displacement. And it has a larger power spread, and more torque. I'm not surprised that it won out. The power spread of a 250 s-stroke compared to a 250F is way more even. Even though the 2-stroke makes more peak power, the 250F makes up for it with power spread, making them virtually equal.
This.....
X 2
Equal displacement is the only way 2 strokes will be relevant.
Post by: rbigair40 on October 31, 2011, 04:44:39 AM
Post by: snook620 on October 31, 2011, 04:54:10 AM
I would LOVE to have seen this race....
Post by: miedosoracing on October 31, 2011, 05:44:18 AM
No way a THUMPER can out run a 2 stroke no way man no way !
Says the guy who rides a 250 2 stroke now, in replacement for his 250F. LOL.
Yeah, I guess the 105cc's does make a difference. I too can kick Tiger Woods azz with a 105 stroke handicap. Ha ha. Means, I'm better than him.