Post by: Recovered on May 28, 2012, 01:54:08 AM
"people think the Japanese want it, but it is not true. That's something HONDA WANTS."
"They wanted motocross to go all fourstroke, but look... the pros are all fourstroke, but the amateurs are two-stroke." (god damn right)
What's your opinion Suzuki TS250/175?
Post by: factoryX on May 28, 2012, 03:58:55 AM
Post by: teampryor on May 28, 2012, 04:25:09 AM
Post by: Super Trucker on May 28, 2012, 06:12:20 AM
Post by: ACMX on May 28, 2012, 07:00:58 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on May 28, 2012, 08:01:53 AM
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
Post by: Jeram on May 28, 2012, 12:39:02 PM
That guy is a legend. And hes absolutely right.
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
those volcanoes form part of the equilibruim that was the carbon cycle: prior to the modern human civilization. it doesnt count
you've been sucked into the anti climate change propaganda, no different to the 4T propaganda.
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Post by: Sapper on May 28, 2012, 01:39:11 PM
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Haven't you heard the latest. Dinosaurs killed themselves with Methane gas due to flatulance. Yea, OK. Some scientists are complete I D ten T's...(Idiots). LOL they farted themselves to death.
Post by: 2T Institute on May 28, 2012, 01:55:08 PM
Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
He's a mechanic in a race series nothing more. Wonder what happens to the 500,000,000 tonnes of coal we export every year. I doubt you have been around long enough to remember what winter used to be like. NASCAR's would be definantly tuned so their BSFC is at the point where the engine spends most of it's time at. Bikes do't use much petrol but the team transporters do as do Winnebagoes that fans drive. No problems because we'l all have TFH's to protect us.
Post by: SachsGS on May 28, 2012, 03:18:09 PM
Post by: Recovered on May 28, 2012, 03:37:14 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on May 29, 2012, 08:03:07 AM
That guy is a legend. And hes absolutely right.
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
those volcanoes form part of the equilibruim that was the carbon cycle: prior to the modern human civilization. it doesnt count
you've been sucked into the anti climate change propaganda, no different to the 4T propaganda.
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Theres a couple of major differences between you and me bud.
1.) I don't come onto a forum and start throwing accusations and start arguments left right and centre.
2.) I don't make a statement as bold as the one above without doing extensive research and maths to back it up.
3.) I can actually do the maths to back it up.
Don't tell me what I have and haven't been sucked into. You're welcome to disagree but start telling me about myself and I start getting dirty
Post by: msmola2002 on May 29, 2012, 12:15:08 PM
That guy is a legend. And hes absolutely right.
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
those volcanoes form part of the equilibruim that was the carbon cycle: prior to the modern human civilization. it doesnt count
you've been sucked into the anti climate change propaganda, no different to the 4T propaganda.
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Theres a couple of major differences between you and me bud.
1.) I don't come onto a forum and start throwing accusations and start arguments left right and centre.
2.) I don't make a statement as bold as the one above without doing extensive research and maths to back it up.
3.) I can actually do the maths to back it up.
Don't tell me what I have and haven't been sucked into. You're welcome to disagree but start telling me about myself and I start getting dirty
I gotta see this math. Please share.
Post by: Jeram on May 29, 2012, 02:38:51 PM
That guy is a legend. And hes absolutely right.
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
those volcanoes form part of the equilibruim that was the carbon cycle: prior to the modern human civilization. it doesnt count
you've been sucked into the anti climate change propaganda, no different to the 4T propaganda.
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Theres a couple of major differences between you and me bud.
1.) I don't come onto a forum and start throwing accusations and start arguments left right and centre.
2.) I don't make a statement as bold as the one above without doing extensive research and maths to back it up.
3.) I can actually do the maths to back it up.
Don't tell me what I have and haven't been sucked into. You're welcome to disagree but start telling me about myself and I start getting dirty
1. Stating a difference in opinion is not an argument, you've just chosen to make it one
2. Im a Civil engineer and I specialize in environmental engineering.
3. Why do the math
4. nobody likes being told they've been suckered into something, reality hurts sometimes.
5. its only you and your friend who I pick on, and only when you make absolutely absurd statements. I don't think anyone else on here has been scalded. nor do I expect them to as they are significantly more rational in comparison.
have a nice day.
Post by: msmola2002 on May 30, 2012, 12:27:10 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on May 30, 2012, 12:50:26 AM
Post by: motoxr377 on May 30, 2012, 01:00:07 AM
Post by: factoryX on May 30, 2012, 01:18:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CZ-4gnNz0vc
Post by: Recovered on May 30, 2012, 01:37:24 AM
Post by: Jeram on May 30, 2012, 06:07:25 AM
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/03/arctic-sea-ice-increases-at-record-rate/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CZ-4gnNz0vc
I actually read that report with an open mind even though it was never peer reveiwed. It was an interesting read but the one large problem is that he/she makes the assumption that ice thickness is a constant, this makes all the data and conclusions invalid.
so ice area cannot be equated to ice volume.
anyhow, lets not go into global warming anymore, its really really really far off topic and Im not quiet sure how volcanoes even got mentioned in the first place haha
Post by: Stusmoke on May 30, 2012, 08:15:58 AM
That guy is a legend. And hes absolutely right.
Did anyone know that when a volcano erupts it pumps out more CO2 into the atmosphere in one hour than Australia does in one DAY. thats EVERYTHING in Australia. So yeah all those years of trying to save the polar bears by switching out the light? They don't feel the difference but thats just cos the amount of pollution humanity causes is insignificant compared to the amount that earth does itself. Global Warming is nothing more than a bullshit play constructed by Governments so they can introduce their emmisions taxes. But we really should stop chopping trees down...
An entire season of professional two stroke motocrossers puts out less pollution than one day of NASCAR racing
those volcanoes form part of the equilibruim that was the carbon cycle: prior to the modern human civilization. it doesnt count
you've been sucked into the anti climate change propaganda, no different to the 4T propaganda.
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Theres a couple of major differences between you and me bud.
1.) I don't come onto a forum and start throwing accusations and start arguments left right and centre.
2.) I don't make a statement as bold as the one above without doing extensive research and maths to back it up.
3.) I can actually do the maths to back it up.
Don't tell me what I have and haven't been sucked into. You're welcome to disagree but start telling me about myself and I start getting dirty
1. Stating a difference in opinion is not an argument, you've just chosen to make it one
2. Im a Civil engineer and I specialize in environmental engineering.
3. Why do the maths? Its all been done before and published as peer reviewed scientific literature.
4. nobody likes being told they've been suckered into something, reality hurts sometimes.
5. its only you and your friend who I pick on, and only when you make absolutely absurd statements. I don't think anyone else on here has been scalded. nor do I expect them to as they are significantly more rational in comparison.
have a nice day.
Awwwww thats cute, you think big words make you hard man. Oh wait you are hard, I can hear you fap fap fapping from here.
Oh wow, you posted a scale that is not only stupidly set out, not just inaccurate but you think it makes you right.
I'm going to say it simple: You are a fuck head
There that wasn't so bad was it?
You poke and prod someone with provocative statements such as: You've been sucked into the antiglobal whatthefuckever bullshit you spewed. So you started it not me.
Mate I'm here to share opinions on the two stroke engine, not debate with some know all, ignorant tool whether or not global warming is a load of hot cock.
Not only has it been proven and published that ice ages occur every 15 thousand years roughly and we are exiting one, but there was something else... Oh yeah you're have a dick on your head.
Annnd heres the math you've been wanting, in its most basic form so mr. ilikecock Ahem sorry JERAM can understand it. Oooh damn I forgot hes a civil engineer. AND he specialises in Environmental engineering. hey bud we need rain here in Australia can you help us out? was it you that stared in Cloudy with a Chance of meatballs? Thats engineering the environment...
First off, sources:
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php#CO2 For how much volcanoes churn out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/31/world-carbon-dioxide-emissions-country-data-co2 for how much the human world puts out
lets assume that there are at bare minimum 2000 volcanoes in the world. including underwater and undiscovered ones. if you used the above links then you know that volcanoes produce roughly 130 million tons.
2000x130,000,000=260,000,000,000. SO MANY ZEROES right? Thats 260 BILLION tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, NOT including how much SO2 they emit which is also hazardous to our Earth.
According to that link for how much humans put out its 30,398.42 MILLION. not billion. MILLION. hey Jeram I don't know if you're sheep fucker professor told you this but 1 billion is bigger than 1 million.
30,398,420 divided by 260,000,000,000 and then multiplied by 100=.0116917
Humans put out 1.16917 percent of earths NATURAL CO2 emissions and oh yeah, this is NOT including SO2 emissions, nor the CO2 emissions of animals or anything else. Just CO2 in a volcano vs CO2 from humans. This most brutally basic highschool Maths sheds a fair bit of light on this bullshit.
So in conclusions: You are a provocative douche, an arrogant fool and most likely a liar.
We don't need your attitudes here, piss off
Thats fucking cool im using that lol
Post by: Jeram on May 30, 2012, 09:26:50 AM
from your own link!
"Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year"
it clearly states the plural, not singular
260 billion... FUKING LOL, do you even know how much that is? we wouldnt be alive if you were right, so Im glad your wrong.
if your going to attempt to state facts regarding a discussion of a scientific nature, please dont reference a newspaper article, you just look like a clown when you do that. Hint: try google scholar!... yes there is such a thing!
this is what it really looks like, dumbed down in a diagram for you with all the proportions including volcanoes and burning fossil fuels
Post by: TMKIWI on May 30, 2012, 09:46:04 AM
We don't go attacking people like that on here.
Calling someone a f***head is not on.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 30, 2012, 10:30:07 AM
Saying that its a plural is actually not proving anyones point. Its simply saying that the volcanoes do in fact do this. It doesn't give indication as to the number of volcanoes. it would need to be volcanoes' I think.
All my argument with you is champ: Don't come on here and start attacking people just cos they made a statement that they believe. You provoked me and I pushed back. Thats all there is to it
I couldnt care less if I get banned, I come here to share opinions on the two stroke engine, not debate useless topics with assholes.
You need to pull your head in Stu.
We don't go attacking people like that on here.
Calling someone a f***head is not on.
But its okay for people to tell someone that they're stupid? Nah I think I'll push back not just sit here and take shit from trollers
Yes I modified this post I mispoke
Post by: bearorso on May 30, 2012, 12:05:50 PM
That video has been around for a while.
It's just a mechanic saying what is a known thing, by anyone with a reasonable amount of brain cells.
Honda, announced they were stopping 2t 'series' production by the end of the 2007 model year - I think, a decade and a half, at least, before 2007.
Yet , somehow, many of what we have / had as journalists, seemed to only discover that policy just before 2007, or, after it. Piss poor 'journalism' basically. And, "head in the sand" attitudes from most, that caused them to ignore, or forget, it was coming at the end of 2007.
Though, the 125 and 250 NS/NSRs stayed around for a few more years, of course. Built to pre-order, ntil the 'new' classes started.
The whole Honda/ 2 stroke saga, can be found on the Internet in a few clicks. I think "The Eternal 2 stroke site, and it's sister site, covers it extensively, and goes into many areas. Including some base idiocy on frame design, pertaining to swingarm pivot points that stands out badly. And some very over the top claims for HP achieved by a tuner / tuners with a KTM 80?..........
Terry Goods www.mxworksbike.com deals very well with the start of Hondas 2t era:
http://mxworksbike.com/Honda_1972_RC125M.htm
Soichiro Honda, personally hated 2ts - though, his very first bike had a 2T engine - a gorgeous looking little bike, that may have been the A1. And he inculcated that into his companies ethos.
That Honda has continually used their influence throughout racing, since they started - well, basically from the mid sixties when they really started to rack up titles - is something all should be aware of. Other major manufacturers, haven't been hard to convert to their cause / not put up an argument, when it has enabled them to use their Superbike Technology in more applications.
Moto GP, Moto2, now Moto3 - Pro Level MX / Enduro etc, has all been influenced / controlled by Honda. 2t parity in MX2, was put into the regs, by the FIM, at, I think, the 2008 FIM congress, for the 2010 MX GP series. It 'disappeared', from the FIM rule books, sometime in 2009. Honda, tried to have World Trials limited to 4ts only - it was going to happen, until all the other Trials manufacturers, said they'd quit, if that was the case. In a tiny market like that, the tiny companies had a fair bit of power - the 'all 4t' rule, disappeared. But, with Honda going back into World Trials, with a brilliant strategy of obtaining the best rider(s) in the world - 1st Dougie Lampkin, with Fujinami as an entertaining, highly popular / personable constant, then now Bou, they've dominated World Trials for many years. Though many other companies have their 4ts, 2ts, by numbers, still dominate Trials in sales and international / national / local events. Why wouldn't they, when they have more Torque, more HP, are lighter (though, Works Hondas weigh a hell of a lot less than std RTLs). But, just like with the rest of the sport, the Noise Issue has reared it's head now in Trials, creating incredible problems. Gone are the days of quiet 2ts, and the sweet, relatively quiet sound of the earlier Works Honda 4ts, of Miller,Whaley, Lejeune and Saunders and others.
As for "climate change". It's always changed. It's thought that the advent of farming / crop growing in the 'fertile crescent', then that spreading into Europe, was the first real example of Humans affecting the world climate - basically, delaying and much reducing the severity of the 'mini ice ages' to come.
I have no trouble believing what we do has it's effects. But I don't know who to believe as to the extent of what we do, effects the planets 'body clock'. Some say our pollution additions can / could tip the scales, Some say there's no way what we do can effect things.
I'm for being sensible, and trying to minimize our 'effing up' the planet. Coal fired Electricity Power Plants - well, lets make an effort to have them as clean as is possible. The rather large amount of reports I've read about Algae ponds / dams, and other organic techs, makes me think there could be a win / win, with things like that. ICE powered vehicles being cleaner, factories etc emitting less pollutants, I'm All for.
It could be all BS, and I'm a gullible fool.
And, thinking greedily, the more people that get into EVs, for example, means perhaps more fuel for me to use, in my dirty, smelly 2t. And my other ICE vehicles. Off course, the production of EVs, and the production of the electricity they use, surely won't produce pollutants...................................................................... *this, is Sarcasm, folks*
You mention 2ts to most, and all they think of is the blue haze from earlier 2ts / badly jetted / running modern 2ts. Or, my 500 in the first few hundred metres of running as it clears out the rich mixture from using the choke at the start of a ride / during initial warm up. I'm such an evil
bastard...............So, going 4t, all the time, every time, has been a great way for companies to baffle the hardline greenies with BS.
The President / CEO of Husky, has been quoted as saying a new 300cc DFI 2t will appear at the Cologne Show this year. Andrea Lettinbechter (sp?) will be using it in a few Extreme events this year, too, apparently. KTM have repeatedly said they would bring out their DFI 2t, When They Have To. For 2ts to keep being sold in markets that require road registration, they will have to pass new regulations that come into force, in Europe, in 2013, or 2014. That's what DFI, EFI, and other types of cleaner 2t techs are all about. For you blokes that don't care, as you don't need rego etc, think a bit. These Techs, will have 2ts, of All types, back legally on the roads. A twin cylinder 600cc class sports bike, or 1000cc twin cylinder Superbike, or Any Type of bike (well, maybe not those atrocities called cruisers), will be a much nicer, lighter, simpler, Torquier, more powerful bike than what we have available now. And much more fuel efficient than 2ts have ever been.
'
Post by: Jeram on May 30, 2012, 12:30:29 PM
Post by: bearorso on May 30, 2012, 01:20:14 PM
As I've said Many times before, sanity may just return - well, at least a little bit of it.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on May 30, 2012, 01:48:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of you might be too young to remember but in the 60's and 70's, the big fear was "Global Cooling" and a new ice age. There were tons of disaster movies about it. Then they discovered El Nino.
As strange as this might sound there are two books worth reading: Freakonomics and Superfreakonomics. Both have chapters concerning the myths of Global Warming and Superfreakonomics has great insight into Intellectual Ventures, a company that brings capitol to inventors. I.V. was started by Nathan Myhrvold who was the CTO of Microsoft. He employs Ken Caldeira, who ?is among the most respected climate scientists in the world, his research cited approvingly by the most fervent environmentalists.? Believe me, these books are not boring school texts. They are well written and entertaining. You'll have a hard time putting them down!
Why would I inject this seemingly off topic information? Because Global warming is an economic marketing scare tactic used by those in political power to get what they want: More money and power.
It is up to us, the unwashed masses, to educate ourselves and not let them take it away from us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that is a horrid way of looking at it but really, he's right.
Will you and your family stop eating meat? Without sustained animal farms, predominantly cattle, man can't continue to eat meat since cattle farming is the single worst producer of green house gasses. Will you stop flying? Aircraft produce more toxic emissions than cars. Will you stop having children? Our limited resources really can't support 6 billion people.
The truth is, YOU are not the problem...WE are the problem. In the grand scheme of things, you recycling or becoming a dirty hippy vegan is not going to change much unless we ALL do it. Sorry, I like Porterhouses and showers too much for that.
As with every problem, there is an engineering solution. That is the cool thing about I.V.. They have a solution to this and other problems, and it is pretty low cost considering...and they are continually working for more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to the Freakonomics webs site to check some information (I wouldn't want to mislead you) and what do find?...
"Well, it?s actually happening. An idea reported extensively in SuperFreakonomics has come to fruition, and some mad scientists are getting their way (and a little government funding) to build a garden hose to the sky ? and potentially save the world by cooling it down.
A team of British researchers called SPICE (Stratospheric Particle Injection for Climate Engineering) is trying to pump particles of water into the atmosphere as a test run before moving onto sulfates and aerosols that would reflect sunlight away from earth, mimicking the aftereffect of a massive volcanic eruption. SPICE is building the garden hose at an undisclosed location, with £1.6 million in U.K. government funding and the backing of the Royal Society."
Post by: cnrcpla on May 30, 2012, 01:52:47 PM
Post by: riffraff on May 30, 2012, 02:37:38 PM
Why are we concerned about the environment... There is a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE starting in Miami.
Post by: cnrcpla on May 30, 2012, 02:44:08 PM
Quote
Google it man, crazy stuff...
Post by: riffraff on May 30, 2012, 03:01:21 PM
QuoteGoogle it man, crazy stuff...
already know about it, they say it was bath salts ... THEY lie, it was a zombie attack!
Post by: cnrcpla on May 30, 2012, 03:20:24 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on May 30, 2012, 03:41:22 PM
BTW, Bath Salts is a street name (bet NONE of the f'n journalists knew that!).
Post by: TMKIWI on May 30, 2012, 09:58:37 PM
I think along the same lines.
The policy of the Enviromental lobby of "you are with us or against us" is wrong.
They have no grey area which can be discussed rationally. They are right, we are wrong.
We the people do like too kindly to being dictated to.
There are too many unknown factors involved for anyone to say what is the root cause and how much us humans are effecting the outcome of climate change.
Here in NZ a policy was put in place 10 years ago to cut cut emmissions by limiting house fire places.
Heat pumps became the new "green" way of heating your house.
90% of our electricity comes from hydro dams with the remainder coming from Thermal , Wind and a few coal backup power stations.
Now we have a problem that each winter the national grid is at full capacity (caused in part by the thousands of heat pumps)and we have had blackouts or the coal stations have to be fired up. (The greens don't like that)
And if we have lower then normal rain fall (which has happened the last 2 years) the hydro lakes do not get to full capacity.
So we have to either build more hydro dams, the greens don't want any more rivers dammed, build more coal fired power stations, A definate no no, or.............. that is where no one can find a solution.
This all came about because they did a polution study from our worst city and applied it across the country.
Chrischurch is in a basin like LA or Athens and any smoke or smog does not clear. The rest of the country has good wind flow and does not have any of the associated polution problems .
But now the rest of us can not warm our houses like we used to and we have reached our electricity capacity.
The point being, flawed green policy's can have a negative outcome on our lives.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 30, 2012, 10:21:34 PM
Why are we concerned about the environment... There is a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE starting in Miami.
I am catching the next flight into miami. This is something I must be a part of.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=zombie+apocalypse+order+of+usefulness&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1804&bih=1016&tbm=isch&tbnid=cfQDFTwwlKXbdM:&imgrefurl=http://graphjam.memebase.com/2009/12/14/funny-graphs-zombie-objects/&docid=67YU41hHtGoSeM&imgurl=http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/funny-graphs-zombie-objects.jpg&w=504&h=473&ei=F-PHT_PvIo6TiQeyoLHEDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=451&sig=109988944824804312037&page=1&tbnh=154&tbnw=164&start=0&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:71&tx=107&ty=86
Post by: Jeram on May 31, 2012, 04:12:21 AM
In another post (something like "more proof") I talked a bit about this GW thing. Back prior to the '70's, it was generally considered that the world was cooling due to Ozone depletion. So, in response to that and the particle emissions that create SMOG (causing great sunsets in California), actions were taken to limit the effect we were having. Unfortunately, by cleaning our cars et al, we have swung the other way and actions need to be taken to PULLUTE. However, we can do it in a controlled way (see the 2 posts below taken from the other post). Take the time to look it up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of you might be too young to remember but in the 60's and 70's, the big fear was "Global Cooling" and a new ice age. There were tons of disaster movies about it. Then they discovered El Nino.
As strange as this might sound there are two books worth reading: Freakonomics and Superfreakonomics. Both have chapters concerning the myths of Global Warming and Superfreakonomics has great insight into Intellectual Ventures, a company that brings capitol to inventors. I.V. was started by Nathan Myhrvold who was the CTO of Microsoft. He employs Ken Caldeira, who ?is among the most respected climate scientists in the world, his research cited approvingly by the most fervent environmentalists.? Believe me, these books are not boring school texts. They are well written and entertaining. You'll have a hard time putting them down!
All of the anti climate change theories so far have been condemed as violating the laws of physics by Stephen Hawkins. There is a reason why one of the most brilliant minds in the world is an avid supporter of the theory of climate change
Why would I inject this seemingly off topic information? Because Global warming is an economic marketing scare tactic used by those in political power to get what they want: More money and power.
Id say its the other way around completely, anti global warming is a control tactic by the fossil fuel giants
It is up to us, the unwashed masses, to educate ourselves and not let them take it away from us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that is a horrid way of looking at it but really, he's right.
Will you and your family stop eating meat? Without sustained animal farms, predominantly cattle, man can't continue to eat meat since cattle farming is the single worst producer of green house gasses. Will you stop flying? Aircraft produce more toxic emissions than cars. Will you stop having children? Our limited resources really can't support 6 billion people.
I feel it is our generations responsibility to do something, therefore I dont eat meat, I catch public transport where its available, I only fly once or twice per year, and I have no plans to have children, if everyone else did that then there wouldnt be a problem.
The truth is, YOU are not the problem...WE are the problem. In the grand scheme of things, you recycling or becoming a dirty hippy vegan Theres nothing diry or hippy about being vegetarian or vegan, I hate hippys too, earlier this year I woke up and realised that its scientifically proven that humans were never intended to eat meat, its healthier not to, cheaper not to, better for the environment not to, the only thing it goes against is the beleife system in western culture which is carnism (meat eater) is not going to change much unless we ALL do it That way of thinking will never get us anywhere, 2/3 of the world are mostly vegetarian. Sorry, I like Porterhouses and showers long showers are my guilty pleasure tootoo much for that.
As with every problem, there is an engineering solution. That is the cool thing about I.V.. They have a solution to this and other problems, and it is pretty low cost considering...and they are continually working for more.
[
so far all the interlectual ventures have just been expensive band aid fixes, Virgin a few year back suggested that we place thousand of pipes in the ocean around the world to bring warm water and nutrients to the top for algae to feed off. they didnt however concisider that eutrophic (nutrient rich algal bloom water) would create thousands of huge dead zone around the world where the algae would smother everything under it like a blanket.
being the the world is too stupid to do anything about it we will just have to wait for the americans to get helium-3 haha
not that they would be willing to share it will any other nations haha
Post by: Stusmoke on May 31, 2012, 07:30:43 AM
In another post (something like "more proof") I talked a bit about this GW thing. Back prior to the '70's, it was generally considered that the world was cooling due to Ozone depletion. So, in response to that and the particle emissions that create SMOG (causing great sunsets in California), actions were taken to limit the effect we were having. Unfortunately, by cleaning our cars et al, we have swung the other way and actions need to be taken to PULLUTE. However, we can do it in a controlled way (see the 2 posts below taken from the other post). Take the time to look it up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of you might be too young to remember but in the 60's and 70's, the big fear was "Global Cooling" and a new ice age. There were tons of disaster movies about it. Then they discovered El Nino.
As strange as this might sound there are two books worth reading: Freakonomics and Superfreakonomics. Both have chapters concerning the myths of Global Warming and Superfreakonomics has great insight into Intellectual Ventures, a company that brings capitol to inventors. I.V. was started by Nathan Myhrvold who was the CTO of Microsoft. He employs Ken Caldeira, who ?is among the most respected climate scientists in the world, his research cited approvingly by the most fervent environmentalists.? Believe me, these books are not boring school texts. They are well written and entertaining. You'll have a hard time putting them down!
All of the anti climate change theories so far have been condemed as violating the laws of physics by Stephen Hawkins. There is a reason why one of the most brilliant minds in the world is an avid supporter of the theory of climate change
Why would I inject this seemingly off topic information? Because Global warming is an economic marketing scare tactic used by those in political power to get what they want: More money and power.
Id say its the other way around completely, anti global warming is a control tactic by the fossil fuel giants
It is up to us, the unwashed masses, to educate ourselves and not let them take it away from us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, that is a horrid way of looking at it but really, he's right.
Will you and your family stop eating meat? Without sustained animal farms, predominantly cattle, man can't continue to eat meat since cattle farming is the single worst producer of green house gasses. Will you stop flying? Aircraft produce more toxic emissions than cars. Will you stop having children? Our limited resources really can't support 6 billion people.
I feel it is our generations responsibility to do something, therefore I dont eat meat, I catch public transport where its available, I only fly once or twice per year, and I have no plans to have children, if everyone else did that then there wouldnt be a problem.
The truth is, YOU are not the problem...WE are the problem. In the grand scheme of things, you recycling or becoming a dirty hippy vegan Theres nothing diry or hippy about being vegetarian or vegan, I hate hippys too, earlier this year I woke up and realised that its scientifically proven that humans were never intended to eat meat, its healthier not to, cheaper not to, better for the environment not to, the only thing it goes against is the beleife system in western culture which is carnism (meat eater) is not going to change much unless we ALL do it That way of thinking will never get us anywhere, 2/3 of the world are mostly vegetarian. Sorry, I like Porterhouses and showers long showers are my guilty pleasure tootoo much for that.
As with every problem, there is an engineering solution. That is the cool thing about I.V.. They have a solution to this and other problems, and it is pretty low cost considering...and they are continually working for more.
[
so far all the interlectual ventures have just been expensive band aid fixes, Virgin a few year back suggested that we place thousand of pipes in the ocean around the world to bring warm water and nutrients to the top for algae to feed off. they didnt however concisider that eutrophic (nutrient rich algal bloom water) would create thousands of huge dead zone around the world where the algae would smother everything under it like a blanket.
being the the world is too stupid to do anything about it we will just have to wait for the americans to get helium-3 haha
not that they would be willing to share it will any other nations haha
You're so right... theres only been about 10 thousand studies proven on EITHER side. thats right EITHER SIDE. I don't know who is calling bullshit, I know I hate the tree hugging faggots but to be COMPLETELY HONEST I think half the issues surrounding out environment could be solved if they stopped cutting down trees and planting the bastards instead.
Yeah I don't have a degree, yeah I don't know what I'm talking about, no I don't care. I know trees convert CO2 into oxygen and removing too much of either CO2 or oxygen is gonna be bad mojo.
I agree with everything VBS said. Absolutely everything. And Jeram I was infact aware that humans were never originally designed for meat (please lets not get into the creation vs. evolution thing) but for todays society its kind of just one of those things we need. I love it, infact I have my name on the wall of a restaurant for dominating a 1 kilogram steak (about 2.1 pounds roughly). There were tons of sides too you guys should've seen the size of those potatoes... Anyway thats not the point the point is I love it, I'm not giving it up. As for its healthier to be a vegetarian? I did an assignment on this sometime last year and I found that if you can balance your diet WITHOUT including meat and substitute in some other major source of protein, it has been known to slow cancer.
There is still SO much about the human body we don't know.
WOW this got off topic
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on May 31, 2012, 09:35:57 AM
Quote
That way of thinking will never get us anywhere, 2/3 of the world are mostly vegetarian.
Being at the top of the food chain, I think we could solve the problem by EATING that 2/3'rds! Soilent Green! I get all the veggies I need from eating meat and drinking beer! Cows eat grass, I eat cows. It's how the world goes round.
Post by: Jeram on May 31, 2012, 09:43:15 AM
QuoteThat way of thinking will never get us anywhere, 2/3 of the world are mostly vegetarian.
Being at the top of the food chain, I think we could solve the problem by EATING that 2/3'rds! Soilent Green! I get all the veggies I need from eating meat and drinking beer! Cows eat grass, I eat cows. It's how the world goes round.
haha, but remember that in buisness, if you cut out the middle man you make more money?
cut out the cow and eat the grass for a fatter profit
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on May 31, 2012, 10:25:51 AM
Post by: TMKIWI on May 31, 2012, 11:15:42 AM
Herbivore animals have molar teeth to chew plants.
Carnivores have canine & incisors.
We have all 3.
I agree with vintage, I get enough plant material from the hops in my beer.
I just had beef cordon bleu and I feel very satisfied.
Or maybe I am dying having meat & dairy in 1 sitting.
that was sarcasm.
Post by: Recovered on May 31, 2012, 02:59:00 PM
The "humans were never supposed to eat meat" thing is new age bullshit.
Herbivore animals have molar teeth to chew plants.
Carnivores have canine & incisors.
We have all 3.
I agree with vintage, I get enough plant material from the hops in my beer.
I just had beef cordon bleu and I feel very satisfied.
Or maybe I am dying having meat & dairy in 1 sitting.
I eat Thai. but she is also half-swedish. I eat Colombian, but she is always busy during the week. She likes the track though, so that's a plus.
Wait, what?
Post by: SachsGS on May 31, 2012, 03:03:05 PM
I live in a semi arid,sunny area and I'm installing heat pumps as we speak AND my house faces south so solar power is a natural.
I've got a contract with two restaurants in the area for deep fryer fat which I refine into bio diesel and I've come to realize that my Mercedes diesel can't keep up.I've got a gas pot Ford pickup and the price of gas keeps getting jacked up,let's see,$1.50 per litre equals $20 per hour to run the truck.Time to get a diesel pickup.
Motorcyclists are,in general,an intensely independent bunch so when I'm told told that my power rates are going up I say "not so fast" and start looking for alternatives.
Post by: Recovered on May 31, 2012, 03:19:04 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on May 31, 2012, 03:32:15 PM
Post by: downonmonday on May 31, 2012, 10:10:01 PM
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Haven't you heard the latest. Dinosaurs killed themselves with Methane gas due to flatulance. Yea, OK. Some scientists are complete I D ten T's...(Idiots). LOL they farted themselves to death.
HAHAHAHAHAHA...I haven't heard I D ten T's in awhile, brings back some good memories.
Post by: TMKIWI on May 31, 2012, 10:13:40 PM
Like the rest of the world we had a building boom in the early 2000's and 10's of thousands of new homes were built.
Very few have solar power. The government of the time made a major fubar by not mandating solar power on all new houses like country's like Germany & France. Over there the government's subsidised the installation.
The costs have come down alot and is reasonally cheap.
Whats another $5k on a 200k-400k house.? SFA.
As I said the government missed the boat on that one.
Post by: Recovered on May 31, 2012, 10:27:43 PM
the earth did just fine without us for a billion years; volcanoes and all.
Haven't you heard the latest. Dinosaurs killed themselves with Methane gas due to flatulance. Yea, OK. Some scientists are complete I D ten T's...(Idiots). LOL they farted themselves to death.
HAHAHAHAHAHA...I haven't heard I D ten T's in awhile, brings back some good memories.
I. D. ten Tango card.
chemlight batters
bulkhead remover
humvee keys
Post by: twosmoke595 on May 31, 2012, 11:26:47 PM
TS WHERE ARE YOU!!?!?
Post by: Stusmoke on May 31, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
back on topic folks
One more? pretty please?
yay
The "humans were never supposed to eat meat" thing is new age bullshit.
Herbivore animals have molar teeth to chew plants.
Carnivores have canine & incisors.
We have all 3.
I agree with vintage, I get enough plant material from the hops in my beer.
I just had beef cordon bleu and I feel very satisfied.
Or maybe I am dying having meat & dairy in 1 sitting.
I eat Thai. but she is also half-swedish. I eat Colombian, but she is always busy during the week. She likes the track though, so that's a plus.
Wait, what?
I eat Australian only... Although I do like budweiser...
Now I'm Australian so this has gotta be said: I'm pretty sure that The NZ people are right into the mutton...
Post by: TMKIWI on June 01, 2012, 12:39:42 AM
I have tried Canadian,American,Aussie,English,Scottish,Irish,South African and a few more delicacy's.
I once tried American cuisine and got a side order of crustaceans which was not on the menu.
Post by: Stusmoke on June 01, 2012, 12:58:34 AM
We should all follow this... nonfussy mans example.
oh wow an extremely salty pretzal just ran past...
Challenge accepted
Post by: twosmoke595 on June 01, 2012, 01:10:00 AM
Post by: Jeram on June 01, 2012, 12:02:00 PM
The "humans were never supposed to eat meat" thing is new age bullshit.
Herbivore animals have molar teeth to chew plants.
Carnivores have canine & incisors.
We have all 3.
I agree with vintage, I get enough plant material from the hops in my beer.
I just had beef cordon bleu and I feel very satisfied.
Or maybe I am dying having meat & dairy in 1 sitting.
Naww, come on mods I had such a good reply to this
ok fine!
haha
Post by: Recovered on June 01, 2012, 02:16:26 PM
Post by: factoryX on June 03, 2012, 08:17:19 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 03, 2012, 08:43:07 AM
I think it would be absolutely great to just get a statement from chad or dungey that says basically what this legend does: Honda wants to own and fuck motocross.
Everyones seen how much faster chad was on his real bikes. Carmichael swears by em. I think if we could get the statements of some of those legends, like mcgrath and carmichael and maybe even some side statements from the factory mechanics. By that I mean: DON'T BUY THESE PIECES OF COCK. People might start listening
Post by: Jeram on June 03, 2012, 10:40:41 AM
And back on topic we are...
I think it would be absolutely great to just get a statement from chad or dungey that says basically what this legend does: Honda wants to own and fuck motocross.
Everyones seen how much faster chad was on his real bikes. Carmichael swears by em. I think if we could get the statements of some of those legends, like mcgrath and carmichael and maybe even some side statements from the factory mechanics. By that I mean: DON'T BUY THESE PIECES OF COCK. People might start listening
serious question:
If these riders made mega bucks for years and years, and prefer 2Ts. why not build and race their own bike, bankrolled by their vast fortune earned riding 4Ts?
Post by: factoryX on June 03, 2012, 11:06:37 AM
Why would you promote 2t's when you are paid to ride 4t's? Why build a bike to race against the bike you're being specially paid to ride? The problem is that racing is indeed a form of advertising as much as everyone wants to ignore. As for pro riders for two strokes Jeremy McGrath has openly made statements in favor of them, and in one of more recent interviews he made his opinion quite clear:David Brocavich: "So, tell me how you really feel about the AMA's four stroke rule..."
Jeremy McGrath: "I think we should all ride two strokes, that's my answer to that. Bring back the two strokes, I miss that noise, and I miss the smell. Oh, and the racing, yeah the racing was better to."
Post by: Stusmoke on June 03, 2012, 11:28:59 AM
And back on topic we are...
I think it would be absolutely great to just get a statement from chad or dungey that says basically what this legend does: Honda wants to own and fuck motocross.
Everyones seen how much faster chad was on his real bikes. Carmichael swears by em. I think if we could get the statements of some of those legends, like mcgrath and carmichael and maybe even some side statements from the factory mechanics. By that I mean: DON'T BUY THESE PIECES OF COCK. People might start listening
serious question:
If these riders made mega bucks for years and years, and prefer 2Ts. why not build and race their own bike, bankrolled by their vast fortune earned riding 4Ts?
You raise a fair point. Maybe they don't prefer two strokes. Maybe they've gotten lazier now that they are, like you said basically just getting all the cash and not caring.
My answer is that it would be extremely difficult to keep up on practise, but still run your own team. Maybe if you hired a team manager of some sort and had everything run for you...? I don't know thats gotta be extremely expensive maybe they just don't care anymore. I firmly believe that if KTM gave someone on here a blank check they could make a bike that was 450 equal in terms of horsepower but still had all the advantages of a lighter bike. I've heard people say that the factory 250s used to make 60 horsepower give or take a little. Thats alot of ponies and has to be almost on par with todays factory 450s. So we know it CAN be done but they're probably thinking along the lines of WTFactoryx: Why would I want to do that when I get paid millions to ride these?
Who knows what motivates them but I'd love to see it happen, unfortunately its probably going to remain a dream
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on June 03, 2012, 11:30:14 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on June 03, 2012, 11:40:48 AM
If apple came to you and PAID you to use an iphone, would you give up your samsung android?
I wouldn't, I hate iphones. Same thing with smokers but some people are so decided and/or dont care.
Post by: Jeram on June 04, 2012, 03:57:15 AM
A large throttle body (as per FI) will do that
Post by: Stusmoke on June 04, 2012, 05:38:19 AM
Post by: Jeram on June 04, 2012, 06:03:03 AM
that could mean we get them late this year or next year.
EDIT: itl be another 12 months sorry, but they are confirmed to be coming!, but we will see a few husky factory enduro riders racing the 300DI very soon.
I think this will be a game changer, just in time before the electric bikes take over.
Post by: Stusmoke on June 04, 2012, 08:13:53 AM
But one question, whats the difference between EFI and DFI? I know the D is direct in that so I was thinking it had similarities to a diesel injector?
Post by: TotalNZ on June 04, 2012, 08:41:15 AM
Thats freaking awesome.Direct as in directly into the combustion chamber i think, rather than injected in on the inlet tract somewhere.
But one question, whats the difference between EFI and DFI? I know the D is direct in that so I was thinking it had similarities to a diesel injector?
Post by: Stusmoke on June 04, 2012, 10:55:54 AM
Post by: Jeram on June 04, 2012, 11:51:35 AM
they inject into the transfer ports I during the pistons up stroke so that as little fuel as possible goes out the exhaust. and some also have an injector in the throttle body that turns on in the top end to give better atomisation (works almost like a power jet)
where as proper 2T DFI injects directly into the cylinder after ports are all closed.
Post by: TMKIWI on June 05, 2012, 03:40:04 AM
Orbital and etec are both proper DI.
Post by: 2T Institute on June 05, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Jeram, that is an easy one. Pro motocross is a business. When Chad Reed bank rolled his 22 Motorsports, it wasn't to just beable to continue his racing career. He had every intention of making a Profit from it. It was an investment. Honda, PC, BelRay, (yada, yada) gives him large amounts of cash and support.
The oldest saying in racing is "How do you make a small fortune from racing?" the answer is easy you begin with a large one. Just finding sponsorships is a full time job, then they are conditional, only really if you win lots of races and championships do the $$ add up. Most of the considerable costs in motorsport involve getting to and from the venue.
Post by: Jeram on June 05, 2012, 03:29:49 PM
What current breed do you mean jeram.
Orbital and etec are both proper DI.
Current breed in motorcycles, where other factors come into play including throttle response.
I beleive that currently, semi direct injection with a secondary injector at the throttle body provide the best throttle response, but at the expense of emissions, particularly in the top end
Post by: bearorso on June 08, 2012, 09:15:33 AM
The set up that 'appears' to be being used in the twin injector Ossa - with regards to the upper injector, AND the injector in the Athena design - that I have described / posited on previously, I think, is the most logical 2t application of DFI. So far.
Making use of 2ts 'natural' induction and exhaust cycles, to keep it as simple as possible.
When I first saw it, I foolishly didn't give much thought to it. Then, I stopped, chased it up, and thought about it properly.
The direction a injector points the charge into the combustion chamber, is not how it should be defined / thought of as legitimate DFI. That it is directed efficiently into the combustion chamber, is what DFI should be about.
Ossa twin injector set up, is a very nice way of doing things. That it (appears to ) have the one injector, going directly into the combustion chamber, with the other injector, being Past the reed valve, into the case / transfer / boost port injector , makes it a far more sophisticated (in elegance of simplicity terms, and induction) set up than current 4t EFIs. Think of the KXF250 dual injectors, 1 before the throttle valve / in the airboot, 1 after the throttle valve.
I'll call the Athena / Ossa (the main, top injector orientation), DFI. That it's been previously pointing down through the cylinder head, for the vast part of it's use, does not make it the definitive version of DFI, especially for 2t use.
Post by: Stusmoke on June 08, 2012, 12:17:20 PM
Post by: Jeram on June 08, 2012, 01:14:11 PM
(jokes, but at the same time kinda serious haha)
I dont think husky will put their DI bike into MX racing. youd be more likely to see it winning an enduro or supermoto world championship.
so as far as thats concerned I dont think Honda could give two hoots.
also, If anything Husky will be stealing KTM customers, not crf450 customers
Post by: metal_miracle on June 08, 2012, 02:41:01 PM
i think your right. since honda owners seem to be the most brand loyal
Post by: SachsGS on June 08, 2012, 04:14:10 PM
I assume Orbital has a lock on 2T direct injection patents and I'm sure this is a big hindrance to the development of DI.
With DI the fuel charge is injected into the combustion chamber after the exhaust port is closed (in theory) mitigating scavenging losses.With this in mind we should see a significant increase in lower rpm power (in a "tuned" 2T),should make for some pretty awesome small bores.
Post by: Super Trucker on June 08, 2012, 04:50:17 PM
, while still making over 500 hp with 2,000 ft. lbs. of torque.
Post by: Stusmoke on June 09, 2012, 12:52:56 AM
DI is great if you want your bike in the shop all the time. The new fuel injected 4-st, are constantly replacing the injecter, a piece of dirt from your air filter, gets sucked in. Replace the injecter, change pipes, gearing, silencer, a piston with a diff. weight and a reprogram is needed. A 2012 big truck diesel is more advanced than any engine made, the exhaust is cleaner than the air you breath
This is a good point. Those big ass trucks are monsters... The scary ass thing is that the Dodge SRT10 Viper puts out 648 HP
It would be good if they could ensure the DI on a two stroke keeps the engine as simple as possible to the point that most blokes can do it in their own shed.for your own health please let go of your grudge with Honda, it mustn't be doing your blood pressure much good
(jokes, but at the same time kinda serious haha)
I dont think husky will put their DI bike into MX racing. youd be more likely to see it winning an enduro or supermoto world championship.
so as far as thats concerned I dont think Honda could give two hoots.
also, If anything Husky will be stealing KTM customers, not crf450 customers
I don't know if I'd call it a grudge, I'm not happy with their BS thats for sure but they still make good lawn mowers right? And I actually do mean lawn mowers not their bikes.
I don't know some people might see the DI as a sign saying that two strokes are not dead and are PERFECTLY competitive. And the old school bike riders that actually prefer two strokes but need a fooper to be competitive might go back.
jeramI was a honda customer once. And I know that people do tend to defend the honda brand name with everything they've got, but with their recent screw ups in the MX range of bikes I be thinking they've lost alot of customers.
i think your right. since honda owners seem to be the most brand loyal
Post by: Jeram on June 09, 2012, 04:48:18 AM
they are super reliable, id they werent you'd be lost at sea or at the summit of an icy mountain... not where you want to be stuck!
These vehicles use orbital DI (atleast I know that the liberty/polaris engines do), they pay the licencing fees because they have to, to be emmissions compliant. and soon so will the dirt bikes and road 2T's so they will pay the orbital fees without any hesitation.
I used to think orbital was evil for charging so much for their protected patents, but its actually the potential purchasers who are being tight arses for not wanting to pay for orbitals hard work. It would take honda or any other company alot more money if they had to develop the orbital system from scratch.
also, its not hard to beat a patent, you just have to 'improve' on it by 10%
Post by: SachsGS on June 09, 2012, 03:12:00 PM
Post by: bearorso on June 11, 2012, 05:47:24 AM
It's made investors / owners many, many millions of dollars, as So Very Many Companies, around the world, pay the licensing fees.
I look at it this way - their DFI licensing fees, by being expensive, in some companies eyes, or companies with 'not invented here' approaches, means that other techs are / have been developed.
On Ya, Orbital.
Quite a few of them, much more appropriate for use in 2t motorcycles.
DFI - Other techs, are about making 2ts pass ever stricter emmission regulations, first and foremost. And, it will enable 2ts to be put back onto the road - far more than just keeping existing dirtbikes on the road.
KTM, have always said, that it will be the EXCs that get it first. SXs, may be later.
That DFI - Other techs, opens up a lot of potential for tuning / further 2t innovation, is the iceing on the cake.
Post by: kim wedding on August 12, 2012, 02:47:25 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on August 12, 2012, 04:00:50 AM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on August 12, 2012, 10:02:05 AM
A Porsche 911 emits cleaner air than what goes in it. That has actually been a subject in the global warming argument. Prior to the '80's, we were on a cooling cycle. Everyone was worried about the new ice age. Hollywood made a ton of movies about it. Then, after reducing CFC's and producing cleaner systems, we have swung the other way and low cities like Venice are sinking under the rise in sea levels. I've posted elsewhere on this site about a company who is actually polluting the upper atmosphere to create the effect without the health (respitory) issues involved with smog.
Yes, a 2-stroke MX bike is equivalent to 28 cars (or something like that) but the other argument is that you will drive one of the 28 cars more that 1 MX bike. And cars are not the problem. Factories are the worst but at least they are regulated (to some extent) but Air Travel is unregulated and worse than if the travelers all drove in clean modern cars to their destinations.
Post by: Critta on August 12, 2012, 10:14:24 AM
But that would be spending their money
David Brocavich: "So, tell me how you really feel about the AMA's four stroke rule..."
Jeremy McGrath: "I think we should all ride two strokes, that's my answer to that. Bring back the two strokes, I miss that noise, and I miss the smell. Oh, and the racing, yeah the racing was better to."
Hey mate is this a video or a article that i could have a read of if you have a link?
Post by: Stusmoke on August 13, 2012, 06:00:39 AM
People who complain about two strokes have obviously never been to a truck pull. Man that diesel smoke smells
Tell me about it, my school is on a hill and a major highway too... So when a trucks got a full load going up that hill, I head inside pretty quick smart. Diesal smoke is baaaad...
Post by: factoryX on August 13, 2012, 07:41:24 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on August 13, 2012, 08:25:10 AM
Can somebody please explain to me how one 2t even though they burn fuel at a much lower temps creates more carbon than 26 cars(BS)?
I too am curios. Does anyone know? I read somewhere that an entire season of pro two stroke motocross puts out less pollution than 1 day of formula 1 racing does anyone know if this has truth to it?
Post by: factoryX on August 13, 2012, 10:02:17 AM
. So yes. That is entirely true lmfao. Ethanol has actually been proven to create more carbon due to increased burn rate. Alky is great for racing, but that's about it.
Post by: Stusmoke on August 13, 2012, 11:14:24 AM
Dude, F1 + 100% Ethanol + 20,000rpm = Lot of fuel burnt
Thats what I thought... Haha we whinge about how expensive four stroke motocrossers are... 20 thousand RPM in those engines is madness. It must be atleast 100k per race to run those things. I wasn't aware that ethanol resulted in more pollution although now that you point it out it becomes kinda obvious. Pump gas in Australia has ethanol in it sometimes so that doesn't make much sense if the government is hell bent on controlling pollution, why do they put ethanol in it?
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on August 13, 2012, 12:06:34 PM
Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.
As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.
In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.
For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!
...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?
Post by: msmola2002 on August 14, 2012, 12:43:22 AM
And also like the US there is a political agenda behind the use of ethanol in the fuel - pressure from the greeny/hippy front.
Also - yes F1 uses petroleum based fuel.
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/13C06BF289E0E36FC12579C9003CB5B9/$FILE/1-2012%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2009-03-2012.pdf page 66.
Quote
19.4.4 A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.
19.4.5 Initially the bio-components are restricted to oxygenates. However, hydrocarbons (as defined
in 19.2) and oxygenates (lying outside the 19.4.3 definition) or mixtures thereof, which have
been produced from biomass, may be included into Formula One fuel as part of the 5.75%
biocomponents quota, provided that a suitable analytical procedure is available for their
quantification and to verify their biological origin. Their use in F1 fuel will be dependent on
evidence indicating that the supplier is genuinely developing these compounds for use in
commercial fuels
and a minimum of 5.75% bio-origin, notwithstanding the other couple of pages of restrictions/requirements.
F1 is also no longer running at 20k, 18k is the limit.
Indy cars run 100% ethanol.
http://www.gosunoco.com/sunoco-racing/indycar/
ALMS depends on class - I was at lime rock and saw a few different kinds. Some was E10, (VP100) and saw some E85. CNG is coming next year.
Post by: factoryX on August 14, 2012, 05:53:46 AM
OK, so I am not searching for the links but...
Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.
As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.
In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.
For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!
...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?
Brosive, 4 stroke dirt bikes don't run Cats either...
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on August 14, 2012, 10:29:55 AM
But current 4-stroke dirt bikes also have less regulated emissions than today's 2-strokes. That is the point of the conspiracy.
Yes, I said it.
However, I don't believe it is as evil as it sounds. It has to do with Corporate Image. Honda and the other 4-stroke only companies want to appear Green and they want a return on the investment (or lack of competition on that investment) for being Green.
When they've wrung their money out of the 4-strokes, or the rules and regulations change, or someone comes along with a DI 2-stroke engine that beats them, the pendulum will swing the other way and we'll all be back on 2-strokes since the DI 2-strokes are cleaner than the current 4-strokes.
Post by: Stusmoke on August 15, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
OK, so I am not searching for the links but...
Modern 2-stroke dirt bike engines first of all are not regulated for emissions. There is no catalytic converter or other "cleaning" mechanisms. Second, 2-strokes have particle emissions like a diesel; that un-burnt/partially un-burnt fuel and oil escaping out the exhaust. Due to these 2 factors alone make dirt bikes emissions worse than today's cars.
As for comparing it to F1 and again, I am not going to search for the links, that was comparing the entire F1 foot print of a race weekend, not comparing what comes out of the cars. F1 engines are the single most efficient sporting engines on the planet. Yes, they have massive emmisions output, but concidering the amount of power they are creating from such little input, it is amazing. The footprint covers the cars as well as the transporters, the jets, the catering, etc. Considering also that most of the people arrive at an F1 event by plane, unlike motocross which is still predominantly local. So yes, an F1 weekend has a larger footprint than a season of Motocross.
In addition, F1 burns Gasoline, not Ethanol (although I believe it does contain 10% now). Indy Cars are 100% Ethanol. I believe (but again, I'm not looking it up again) that ALMS is E85 for the non diesel cars.
For those that will be in the Houston, TX area or those that were at Indy during the early '00's, the sight of the sky following the event...of all the planes taking off and circling the skys...it is almost worth it to go just to witness it. It is truly a wonder of mankind and kind of resembled Bagdad and Panama during the invasions!
...and Stu, it has gov't involvment has nothing to do with solving pollution problems. The farmers get huge gov't subsidies to grow corn. The oil industry is who makes the ethanol and sells it to us. Those are 2 of the biggest lobbyests...need I say more?
Foot print for foot print and I rest my case; no one has the right to whinge about 2 stroke mx/sx being too bad for the earth.