Post by: Stusmoke on July 12, 2012, 07:43:28 AM
KTM just hit an all time LOW in my opinion. While it might appeal to some people, that is the stupidest form of dirtbike I have ever seen in my entire life. I would rather have a 250F than that. Honestly... an electric DIRT BIKE? Touring bike I can understand, even sport bike I could go with... But this is lame. A skinny hobo would have a better chance of selling me a quantum fueled dirt bike.
Whats everyone elses opinion? and Hey, for those of you that were against FI/DI? Hows it look now?
Post by: Jeram on July 12, 2012, 08:41:33 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 12, 2012, 10:19:57 AM
Post by: Jeram on July 12, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
100 years late hp are just working it out again but it's no where near as good as it used to be with tesla
Did I trip u out?
Post by: Blop on July 12, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
with better frame and components, more power and longer ride time it would be ok
Post by: MXLord327 on July 12, 2012, 01:16:36 PM
Post by: SachsGS on July 12, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
Post by: juliend on July 12, 2012, 03:06:20 PM
Post by: factoryX on July 12, 2012, 04:10:04 PM
Also, Battery power = HEAVY... Especially if you want more than 30 minutes of ride time...
Post by: Shawn36 on July 12, 2012, 04:27:45 PM
Batteries are not the way of the future. Sorry. Battery cars are currently failing hugely even with government aid. Tesla(Electric Lotus Elise, Government funded) just went under and is no more. The problem with electricity unless tapped from the Air as Tesla intended, there isn't enough to revolutionize the motorized world. Where does electricity come from? Coal, Natural Gas, Damaging Dams, Nuclear Power Plants(Despite human error it could be the greenest form of energy possible , even without the use of Helium 3 AKA Cold Fusion), etc., all of which produce more electricity than turbines or Solar panels could ever hope of equaling. Everyone wants clean energy, problem is that it doesn't exist. Going green is BS.
Also, Battery power = HEAVY... Especially if you want more than 30 minutes of ride time...
I think Tesla would be surprised to hear they're out of business considering they just came out with a new line of cars.
http://www.teslamotors.com/
Post by: factoryX on July 12, 2012, 04:32:49 PM
http://jalopnik.com/5843937/tesla-motors-secretly-asks-for-more-government-money
Post by: streaks383 on July 12, 2012, 05:35:07 PM
When gas prices hit 5 a gallon would you ride an electric bike, how about 7, how about 10? Most will make the switch, some will make it and wish they could be riding (insert favorite bike here), some will not do it ever, all will miss the noise.
Besides all that my degree is in Environment and Natural Resources, so I am only a few clicks away from the outspoken save the planet people anyways.
Electric bikes, as a person with absolutely no authority I give you have my blessing!
Post by: cnrcpla on July 12, 2012, 08:47:41 PM
Post by: TMKIWI on July 12, 2012, 10:46:36 PM
But I would put clickers in the spokes, A chopper flag and a bicycle bell on it and I would be the coolest kid on my street.
And I would ride around yelling Ring ding ding ding ding.
Post by: factoryX on July 12, 2012, 11:47:51 PM
Post by: Swimr2DaResQ on July 13, 2012, 01:43:10 AM
I'm sure there is a lot more development coming up for these Hybrid cars, but at what cost? The current batteries in our gasoline and diesel powered vehicles are typically Lead-Acid. Lead-acid batteries are the most widely recycled product in the world because they're 70% lead by weight, the recycling process is simple and a global recycling system already exists, thus there is a desirable profit margin in recycling these Lead-Acid batteries as well as several other types of common batteries. However, the batteries that are being produced for these Hybrid/Electric cars are Lithium-Ion. These lithium batteries use cobalt and nickel, which are far more expensive than titanium, iron, and manganese that were previously used in lithium batteries. The switch to cobalt and nickel was due to an increase in battery performance when using these metals, as opposed to iron, manganese, and titanium. Despite their extremely high metal value, cobalt-based lithium batteries are rarely recycled because the process is so difficult and expensive. There was only one company in the world that had a program for recycling these lithium batteries, Unicore. The reason for this is because it is so damn expensive to recycle these batteries!!! The amount of Cobalt extracted from these batteries does not hold enough value to justify the process, and Unicore's only facility designed for this process is in Sweden! There are several other companies in the US now, Toxco is one, that have been given grants from the US government as part of a stimulus package to develop their own process and facilities to recycle these lithium batteries, there is also a facility in Trail, British Columbia, Canada as well.
The big push to electric/ hybrid cars is intensely backed and funded by the US government, it is part of Obama's pledge to transition the country away from a dependency on foreign oil and foreign-made batteries. Bull s**t!!!!!!!!!!!! There is obviously a profit to be made by producing these batteries, but (and this a huge BUT), by how much is it going to lessen our dependency on crabon based fuels?! Here is a quote from the CEO of Nissan: "Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Nissan, whose electric Leaf was unveiled this month, has said electric vehicle sales will make up 10 percent of the market by 2020, a figure equal to about 65 million units last year." 65 Million units?!!! Where is all the money going to come from to dispose of and /or recycle 65 million units worth of lithium batteries? The consumers, that's who will pay for the cost of the process, and when it's all said and done my 1994 Toyota pick-up(gasoline) that gets about 22 mpg, will still be cheaper to operate and maintain over the next 10 years than a Prius which needs new batteries every 3-5 years(batteries don"t last forever)! And what powers the factories and plants that are disposing of and recycling these batteries, what source of energy do they run on(insert: coughing ...carbon based fuels...bull sh*t!!-Oh , please excuse me, I had a lump of coal stuck in my throat!)?! It is nothing but smoke and mirrors to mislead "us",the consumers, into buying a product that is "GREEN" and saving the planet from Global Warming! There must be a cleaner/ better power source out there than what is currently available, but we cannot simply change our economic dependency on carbon based fuels over night. If the current economic status is a glimpse of things to come, then perhaps we should further development on current technology like DI for 2T's for cleaner transportation.......!!! When the economic status has come out of the dumpster, then it's time to look elsewhere for alternate fuels and power sources!
Apologies for the rant! My .02 cents have been spent!
Post by: _X_ on July 13, 2012, 01:50:39 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 13, 2012, 02:01:14 AM
I would have one.
But I would put clickers in the spokes, A chopper flag and a bicycle bell on it and I would be the coolest kid on my street.
And I would ride around yelling Ring ding ding ding ding.
hahaha... A thing I used to do as a youngen would be tape a piece of plastic over the spokes of my bicycle and when I rode it made this braaaaaap sound. Good times.
Batteries are not the way of the future. Sorry. Battery cars are currently failing hugely even with government aid. Tesla(Electric Lotus Elise, Government funded) just went under and is no more. The problem with electricity unless tapped from the Air as Tesla intended, there isn't enough to revolutionize the motorized world. Where does electricity come from? Coal, Natural Gas, Damaging Dams, Nuclear Power Plants(Despite human error it could be the greenest form of energy possible , even without the use of Helium 3 AKA Cold Fusion), etc., all of which produce more electricity than turbines or Solar panels could ever hope of equaling. Everyone wants clean energy, problem is that it doesn't exist. Going green is BS.This is exactly true. If you mass produce batteries, what are you using? Energy. If you recharge batteries you're using energy. Like I said though, that biobattery a couple of engineers made at MIT caught my attention. Unlimited, self recharging batteries would definitely be going green. If they can do that, it'll breath new life back into the electric car movement.
Also, Battery power = HEAVY... Especially if you want more than 30 minutes of ride time...
When gas prices hit 5 a gallon would you ride an electric bike, how about 7, how about 10? Most will make the switch, some will make it and wish they could be riding (insert favorite bike here), some will not do it ever, all will miss the noise.
In aus, its already about 5 a gallon. We pay by the litre though, how many litrees are there to the gallon? 5 or so I think. Well we pay around 1.55 dollars a litre here.
The future IMO is batteryless electric vehicles which are wifi powered. Tesla worked out how to do this over a century ago and powered his entire workshop. Unfortunatelywestinghouse hated the idea of free unregulated energy so crushed his working idea.
100 years late hp are just working it out again but it's no where near as good as it used to be with tesla
Did I trip u out?
Firstly, yes that tripped me out an awful lot.
I heard some big company in the states was testing a totally remote controlled vehicle that picks out the best route to somewhere by satellite and drives itself there. That was cool I thought. I know that unless a massive movement is made towards greating petrolium/diesel from scratch, building it molecule by molecule, electric has to happen. Either that or go back to the steam engine. Maybe if we could develop a steam engine thats got enough power and can condensate the steam back into water to start over again, that would be a good way to go.
The Electric push to move away from carbon based fuels is very skewed and misleading. The Toyota Prius for example, is not the most efficient car on the market! It averages 40-45 mpg on a regular basis, and that is with the aid of the electric motor that engages from 0-35 mph, at 35 mph the gasoline engine takes over. The Volswagen Jetta/Rabit/Golf TDI line of cars will get you better mpg than a Prius. On a road trip a few years ago, driving a VW Golf TDI, We averaged 58 mpg for the entire trip, 500+ miles!
I'm sure there is a lot more development coming up for these Hybrid cars, but at what cost? The current batteries in our gasoline and diesel powered vehicles are typically Lead-Acid. Lead-acid batteries are the most widely recycled product in the world because they're 70% lead by weight, the recycling process is simple and a global recycling system already exists, thus there is a desirable profit margin in recycling these Lead-Acid batteries as well as several other types of common batteries. However, the batteries that are being produced for these Hybrid/Electric cars are Lithium-Ion. These lithium batteries use cobalt and nickel, which are far more expensive than titanium, iron, and manganese that were previously used in lithium batteries. The switch to cobalt and nickel was due to an increase in battery performance when using these metals, as opposed to iron, manganese, and titanium. Despite their extremely high metal value, cobalt-based lithium batteries are rarely recycled because the process is so difficult and expensive. There was only one company in the world that had a program for recycling these lithium batteries, Unicore. The reason for this is because it is so damn expensive to recycle these batteries!!! The amount of Cobalt extracted from these batteries does not hold enough value to justify the process, and Unicore's only facility designed for this process is in Sweden! There are several other companies in the US now, Toxco is one, that have been given grants from the US government as part of a stimulus package to develop their own process and facilities to recycle these lithium batteries, there is also a facility in Trail, British Columbia, Canada as well.
The big push to electric/ hybrid cars is intensely backed and funded by the US government, it is part of Obama's pledge to transition the country away from a dependency on foreign oil and foreign-made batteries. Bull s**t!!!!!!!!!!!! There is obviously a profit to be made by producing these batteries, but (and this a huge BUT), by how much is it going to lessen our dependency on crabon based fuels?! Here is a quote from the CEO of Nissan: "Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Nissan, whose electric Leaf was unveiled this month, has said electric vehicle sales will make up 10 percent of the market by 2020, a figure equal to about 65 million units last year." 65 Million units?!!! Where is all the money going to come from to dispose of and /or recycle 65 million units worth of lithium batteries? The consumers, that's who will pay for the cost of the process, and when it's all said and done my 1994 Toyota pick-up(gasoline) that gets about 22 mpg, will still be cheaper to operate and maintain over the next 10 years than a Prius which needs new batteries every 3-5 years(batteries don"t last forever)! And what powers the factories and plants that are disposing of and recycling these batteries, what source of energy do they run on(insert: coughing ...carbon based fuels...bull sh*t!!-Oh , please excuse me, I had a lump of coal stuck in my throat!)?! It is nothing but smoke and mirrors to mislead "us",the consumers, into buying a product that is "GREEN" and saving the planet from Global Warming! There must be a cleaner/ better power source out there than what is currently available, but we cannot simply change our economic dependency on carbon based fuels over night. If the current economic status is a glimpse of things to come, then perhaps we should further development on current technology like DI for 2T's for cleaner transportation.......!!! When the economic status has come out of the dumpster, then it's time to look elsewhere for alternate fuels and power sources!
Apologies for the rant! My .02 cents have been spent!
Rants are the best kind. And I completely agree with you. I'm not up to speed on the situation in the USA. I do know that they aren't exactly doing well on the economic side of things. But at the end of the day, whether you make new batteries and dispose of the old ones or just recharge the current ones, you're still relying on the energy generated by the burning of fossil fuels. I ofcourse cannot find the article that I read at school now which is a shame.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on July 19, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
I looked into the Zero but was chased away when battery life under load is less than an hour and replacement batteries were +$2000.
I don't want one because of the so call environmental impact. I don't believe that tree hugging hippy BS one bit. I want one because they are freaking NEAT! I could get into all kinds of trouble with one of those. Think about the city parks, hiking trails, jogging trails, sidewalks, skate parks, beaches, [golf courses], etc.
Oh, and in Portugal, you don't need a license or insurance!
Kiss my Burro, tree hugging hippys!
Post by: citabjockey on July 19, 2012, 08:19:48 PM
So electric dirt bikes... The biggest advantage I can see is with those bikes is that we should be able to have riding areas closer to the general population. If they have no 4T noise to complain about the number of riding areas should at least slow down in rate of decrease (if not open up electric only parks nearby neighborhoods). This is enough of an advantage right there in my book to think these bikes are an OK idea. Plus, riding one really might be a "gas" with an absolute flat torque curve and no engine sound... But the operating cost has to come down and the performance start to get close to one of my current rides for me to consider a purchase. Again, it REALLY is all driven by economics. When gas hits $10 a gallon (not too far with most of the 3rd world now getting with the automobile program driving up demand I am afraid) or even higher, it may be closer than some think. Hard to say really. Future is fuzzy enough to me that I am not making any bets.
Oh and if we could cover the Mojave with solar cells that would give the ENTIRE US enough electricity to run the entire country right now -- at current efficiency levels. There is plenty of power in Sunlight -- we just need to be better at catching it. Again, future sure is unclear here but that really does seem like the ONLY really LONG TERM energy solution -- i.e. grab it from what the sun delivers each day as opposed to extracting what was deposited here thousands of years ago. Of course we are no where near being able to do that in my lifetime (or even my kids) but its were we will have to end up if we are to be around a long time.
In the meantime, I will go riding on my 380 tomorrow morning. And have a blast doing it!
Post by: Stusmoke on July 20, 2012, 02:04:55 AM
I like it. I'll be buying one when: 1) the price comes down and 2) when battery life is extended (and the price comes down).
I looked into the Zero but was chased away when battery life under load is less than an hour and replacement batteries were +$2000.
I don't want one because of the so call environmental impact. I don't believe that tree hugging hippy BS one bit. I want one because they are freaking NEAT! I could get into all kinds of trouble with one of those. Think about the city parks, hiking trails, jogging trails, sidewalks, skate parks, beaches, [golf courses], etc.
Oh, and in Portugal, you don't need a license or insurance!
Kiss my Burro, tree hugging hippys!
2x except for the part about buying one. It would take a couple of things for me to buy one: 1.) Price plummet. 2.) Gas price sky rocket 3.) a tunable, punchy, narrow range powerband with a clutch simulation and of course: A premix smell generator
Post by: Jeram on July 20, 2012, 04:01:02 PM
conductor plates on the road surface which power/charge your vehicle as you drive on main roads via low voltage.
they also mentioned they had worked out how to pass electricity through 300mm of solid concrete, interesting.
doesnt really relate to off roading, but interesting non the less.
Post by: factoryX on July 20, 2012, 04:12:00 PM
So electric dirt bikes... The biggest advantage I can see is with those bikes is that we should be able to have riding areas closer to the general population. If they have no 4T noise to complain about the number of riding areas should at least slow down in rate of decrease (if not open up electric only parks nearby neighborhoods). This is enough of an advantage right there in my book to think these bikes are an OK idea. Plus, riding one really might be a "gas" with an absolute flat torque curve and no engine sound... But the operating cost has to come down and the performance start to get close to one of my current rides for me to consider a purchase. Again, it REALLY is all driven by economics. When gas hits $10 a gallon (not too far with most of the 3rd world now getting with the automobile program driving up demand I am afraid) or even higher, it may be closer than some think. Hard to say really. Future is fuzzy enough to me that I am not making any bets.
Not when the people/government is trying to cut close riding/hiking areas due to soil erosion, never mind its their job to maintain them! The problem with solar panels is the cost out weighs the benefits! And if the nation were to go "All Electric" there would be energy usage ten times the current amount now used. Imagine the environmental impact of installing said Solar panels in the Mojave! But hey its for the greater good right?
Post by: Stusmoke on July 21, 2012, 12:36:14 AM
toyota unveiled its recent EV concept this week.
conductor plates on the road surface which power/charge your vehicle as you drive on main roads via low voltage.
they also mentioned they had worked out how to pass electricity through 300mm of solid concrete, interesting.
doesnt really relate to off roading, but interesting non the less.
Thats clever, But how are they getting that voltage through the rubber on the tires? The resistance must be massive. You were right it is interesting, thanks for posting that up.
So electric dirt bikes... The biggest advantage I can see is with those bikes is that we should be able to have riding areas closer to the general population. If they have no 4T noise to complain about the number of riding areas should at least slow down in rate of decrease (if not open up electric only parks nearby neighborhoods). This is enough of an advantage right there in my book to think these bikes are an OK idea. Plus, riding one really might be a "gas" with an absolute flat torque curve and no engine sound... But the operating cost has to come down and the performance start to get close to one of my current rides for me to consider a purchase. Again, it REALLY is all driven by economics. When gas hits $10 a gallon (not too far with most of the 3rd world now getting with the automobile program driving up demand I am afraid) or even higher, it may be closer than some think. Hard to say really. Future is fuzzy enough to me that I am not making any bets.
Not when the people/government is trying to cut close riding/hiking areas due to soil erosion, never mind its their job to maintain them! The problem with solar panels is the cost out weighs the benefits! And if the nation were to go "All Electric" there would be energy usage ten times the current amount now used. Imagine the environmental impact of installing said Solar panels in the Mojave! But hey its for the greater good right?
Touche. You've got a point. If it could be done systematically over a period of 10-20 years that would help out the environment in that its not being dealt this massive blow in one year. Spread out the project of putting solar pannels in every house over a decent period of time and that should lessen the load I think. Overtime, not burning coal for electricity would ultimately pay for itself. It would take a fair while though I think.
Post by: factoryX on July 21, 2012, 02:34:00 AM
Touche. You've got a point. If it could be done systematically over a period of 10-20 years that would help out the environment in that its not being dealt this massive blow in one year. Spread out the project of putting solar pannels in every house over a decent period of time and that should lessen the load I think. Overtime, not burning coal for electricity would ultimately pay for itself. It would take a fair while though I think.
It would cost $50,000-$150,000us per house!! You do the math! The housing market here in the states is already on the fritz, can you imagine what this would do? The Chevy volt here in the states for $37,000, was actually costing tax payers hundreds of thousands of tax dollars per car!
Post by: Stusmoke on July 21, 2012, 08:45:01 AM
Touche. You've got a point. If it could be done systematically over a period of 10-20 years that would help out the environment in that its not being dealt this massive blow in one year. Spread out the project of putting solar pannels in every house over a decent period of time and that should lessen the load I think. Overtime, not burning coal for electricity would ultimately pay for itself. It would take a fair while though I think.
It would cost $50,000-$150,000us per house!! You do the math! The housing market here in the states is already on the fritz, can you imagine what this would do? The Chevy volt here in the states for $37,000, was actually costing tax payers hundreds of thousands of tax dollars per car!
I'm not familiar at all with the situation in the USA sorry. I'm making generalizations in Aus. I don't think its that expensive here but then again I haven't looked into it at all. That would be totally unfeesable to do though you're right.
Post by: Jeram on July 21, 2012, 01:45:39 PM
The future for solar is photo-voltaic electroplating and coatings.
a study found that if the 1 years market supply (USA only) of corrugated iron roof sheeting was coated with the current coatings it would be able to power the enter USA. They are currently trying to now find practical, safe and offordable ways to introduce this to the market.
it can also be coated on glass, plastics and ceramics.
in 10 years, the panels on your car may be solar panels that trickle charge your battery, and the window next to your desk at work powers your computer
Post by: Jeram on July 21, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
toyota unveiled its recent EV concept this week.
conductor plates on the road surface which power/charge your vehicle as you drive on main roads via low voltage.
they also mentioned they had worked out how to pass electricity through 300mm of solid concrete, interesting.
doescont really relate to off roading, but interesting non the less.
Thats clever, But how are they getting that voltage through the rubber on the tires? The resistance must be massive. You were right it is interesting, thanks for posting that up.
yes, but nothings stopping them from having a small strip of conducting material impregnated in the rubber tyre.
Post by: Stusmoke on July 21, 2012, 11:24:06 PM
toyota unveiled its recent EV concept this week.
conductor plates on the road surface which power/charge your vehicle as you drive on main roads via low voltage.
they also mentioned they had worked out how to pass electricity through 300mm of solid concrete, interesting.
doescont really relate to off roading, but interesting non the less.
Thats clever, But how are they getting that voltage through the rubber on the tires? The resistance must be massive. You were right it is interesting, thanks for posting that up.
yes, but nothings stopping them from having a small strip of conducting material impregnated in the rubber tyre.
I really should've seen that one coming lol. Excuse my stupidity
solar panels are old hat fellas, they cost alot to produce (dollars) and only start making + CO2 net emmissions after atleast 50% service life.
The future for solar is photo-voltaic electroplating and coatings.
a study found that if the 1 years market supply (USA only) of corrugated iron roof sheeting was coated with the current coatings it would be able to power the enter USA. They are currently trying to now find practical, safe and offordable ways to introduce this to the market.
it can also be coated on glass, plastics and ceramics.
in 10 years, the panels on your car may be solar panels that trickle charge your battery, and the window next to your desk at work powers your computer
Thats cool. Have you got a link for hte study? I'd like to read that. The coating must be pretty expensive though.
Post by: Jeram on July 22, 2012, 12:24:07 AM
Its much less efficient than traditional cells, but once you consider than the surface area can be many many magnitudes bigger (10^6 or more) you start to see the advantages
Unfortunately I can find the article I was referencing, but here is a website which gives you a brief overveiw of the tech
http://www.pv-magazine.com/archive/articles/beitrag/pv-for-glass-and-steel-_100004813/86/?tx_ttnews%5BbackCat%5D=177&cHash=b9a17e3f108d940b8190423d516fbaa2#axzz21OcSgOif
Post by: Stusmoke on July 22, 2012, 12:30:10 AM
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on July 22, 2012, 12:50:52 AM
Post by: scottydog on July 22, 2012, 08:01:48 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 22, 2012, 10:11:17 AM
Well now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
Post by: scottydog on July 22, 2012, 10:39:43 AM
Well now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on July 22, 2012, 10:47:04 AM
solar panels are old hat fellas, they cost alot to produce (dollars) and only start making + CO2 net emmissions after atleast 50% service life.
The future for solar is photo-voltaic electroplating and coatings.
a study found that if the 1 years market supply (USA only) of corrugated iron roof sheeting was coated with the current coatings it would be able to power the enter USA. They are currently trying to now find practical, safe and offordable ways to introduce this to the market.
it can also be coated on glass, plastics and ceramics.
in 10 years, the panels on your car may be solar panels that trickle charge your battery, and the window next to your desk at work powers your computer
That is really cool, Jeram and I am not doubting the technology. I just doubt we'll ever see it. The problem isn't with HOW to move to some form or solar or other free power, it is HOW TO CHARGE FOR IT. Honda had a great Hydrogen power test in L.A. many years ago. They installed a charger/converter in each house (garage) and not only did it fill the vehicle, but it powered the house! Big energy would never allow that and after 2 years, Honda pulled the plug (so to speak).
Now don't quote me on any of the details above as I just pulled that from (fading) memory but I am sure the information is out there in Googleland.
Post by: Jeram on July 22, 2012, 11:41:35 AM
solar panels are old hat fellas, they cost alot to produce (dollars) and only start making + CO2 net emmissions after atleast 50% service life.
The future for solar is photo-voltaic electroplating and coatings.
a study found that if the 1 years market supply (USA only) of corrugated iron roof sheeting was coated with the current coatings it would be able to power the enter USA. They are currently trying to now find practical, safe and offordable ways to introduce this to the market.
it can also be coated on glass, plastics and ceramics.
in 10 years, the panels on your car may be solar panels that trickle charge your battery, and the window next to your desk at work powers your computer
That is really cool, Jeram and I am not doubting the technology. I just doubt we'll ever see it. The problem isn't with HOW to move to some form or solar or other free power, it is HOW TO CHARGE FOR IT. Honda had a great Hydrogen power test in L.A. many years ago. They installed a charger/converter in each house (garage) and not only did it fill the vehicle, but it powered the house! Big energy would never allow that and after 2 years, Honda pulled the plug (so to speak).
Now don't quote me on any of the details above as I just pulled that from (fading) memory but I am sure the information is out there in Googleland.
I think its viable.
In Australia we just passed a carbon tax, which in the simplest form is aimed to make fossil fuels obsolete by putting a large tax levy on them.
by making carbon expensive, it makes everything else a viable investment opertunity by comparison!
Post by: Suzuki TS250/185 on July 22, 2012, 02:23:54 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on July 22, 2012, 02:51:28 PM
Are we as motorcyclists supposed to be happy about that??? Sounds like you need to start clubbing some of your stupid poiticos....
We can use the ones taken away from the Baby Seal Hunters...
Post by: beaner on July 22, 2012, 04:41:04 PM
I worked a Canadian national trials about a month ago, and they had a class for kids on these
http://www.osetbikes.com/
There were a few 4 year olds and they were getting at least 2 hour out of a battery and the bikes were very capable... and the kids were having a blast.
I see no downside to this
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on July 22, 2012, 05:14:46 PM
I've emailed OSET but got no response. 
I have cash in hand! I really want my kid to grow up with a trials background (he's 2.5 and can identify 15 of the 17 bikes in my garage as well as many of our local riders).
He was making two-stroke sounds long before he could talk.
Post by: citabjockey on July 22, 2012, 06:39:11 PM
Well now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: factoryX on July 22, 2012, 07:42:31 PM
Post by: _X_ on July 22, 2012, 09:42:48 PM
Post by: scottydog on July 22, 2012, 10:04:57 PM
It's comming apparently
Cold fusion is a mythWell now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: Jeram on July 22, 2012, 10:46:57 PM
It isn't a myth, we just don't have the material(Helium 3) to do it. Also, Cold fusion is safe...From why I thought I understood h3 wasn't cold fusion, it was just a more stable version of helium which allows the standard hot fission process to be carried out for more than a millionth of a second.
You still need the giant MW lasers to heat it to the point where the weak forces are removed allowing the 3 heliums to merge
Correct me if I'm wrong
Post by: scottydog on July 22, 2012, 11:10:34 PM
my understanding is the use of a high frequency of 1 000 093 hz can alow nutrons to merge in to atoms and then the photons decay, or something along those lines, turning hydrogen and nickel in to helium and copper go google it
It isn't a myth, we just don't have the material(Helium 3) to do it. Also, Cold fusion is safe...From why I thought I understood h3 wasn't cold fusion, it was just a more stable version of helium which allows the standard hot fission process to be carried out for more than a millionth of a second.
You still need the giant MW lasers to heat it to the point where the weak forces are removed allowing the 3 heliums to merge
Correct me if I'm wrong
Post by: citabjockey on July 23, 2012, 12:04:34 AM
Regarding cold fusion -- in the late '80s a couple chemists Pons and Fleishman thought they had seen evidence of cold fusion. Some sort of lab explosion. Boy was THAT all over the news back then for about a month. Futures of palladium went through the roof because of the content of their paper. Note that these jokers were NOT nuclear physicists. I remember thinking the days of high cost (dollars and environmental damage) energy were over. That quickly evaporated when NOBODY could reproduce the experiment -- such as it was. The cold fusion assert by these guys, IMHO, is a Myth.
Now I read something on He3, a stable atom that shares with hydrogen the feature that the proton count exceeds the neutron count. Some sort of other theory that it might be used to form a cold fusion reaction. BUT, as stated in another post, the stuff is pretty darn rare and the catalyzing effect that is required to sustain such a reaction apparently can not be sustained. So it appears to be a no-go as well.
Just my $0.02. I would not count on that being a part of our future any more than a 15 kw solar array for your house will cost less than a grand.
Cold fusion is a "myth" is just like saying 9/11 was carried out by "terrorist"
It's comming apparentlyCold fusion is a mythWell now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: scottydog on July 23, 2012, 12:58:35 AM
do a search on "LENR" or low energy nuclear reaction, there is an italian company make reactor units right now!
all I can say about 9/11 is dont believe the TV
Perhaps a typo, but 9/11 was carried out by terrorists so I am not quite sure what your point is.
Regarding cold fusion -- in the late '80s a couple chemists Pons and Fleishman thought they had seen evidence of cold fusion. Some sort of lab explosion. Boy was THAT all over the news back then for about a month. Futures of palladium went through the roof because of the content of their paper. Note that these jokers were NOT nuclear physicists. I remember thinking the days of high cost (dollars and environmental damage) energy were over. That quickly evaporated when NOBODY could reproduce the experiment -- such as it was. The cold fusion assert by these guys, IMHO, is a Myth.
Now I read something on He3, a stable atom that shares with hydrogen the feature that the proton count exceeds the neutron count. Some sort of other theory that it might be used to form a cold fusion reaction. BUT, as stated in another post, the stuff is pretty darn rare and the catalyzing effect that is required to sustain such a reaction apparently can not be sustained. So it appears to be a no-go as well.
Just my $0.02. I would not count on that being a part of our future any more than a 15 kw solar array for your house will cost less than a grand.Cold fusion is a "myth" is just like saying 9/11 was carried out by "terrorist"
It's comming apparentlyCold fusion is a mythWell now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: Jeram on July 23, 2012, 01:39:22 AM
So they would send a mission to the moon (where H3 is abundant) to collect 10, 100, of a thousand cubic meters of the stuff.
bring it home and then you can power the world for decades.
PS: ahh it is cold(ish) fusion, there you go, I learnt something today.
Post by: citabjockey on July 23, 2012, 04:40:05 AM
But when a 70+ mile range electric bike that has the performance of my 380 shows up and costs little more that what a current KAYtoom costs now, I will certainly consider it. That said, my 2T bikes (which are all of them currently) sure give me a big grin.
Perhaps a typo, but 9/11 was carried out by terrorists so I am not quite sure what your point is.
Regarding cold fusion -- in the late '80s a couple chemists Pons and Fleishman thought they had seen evidence of cold fusion. Some sort of lab explosion. Boy was THAT all over the news back then for about a month. Futures of palladium went through the roof because of the content of their paper. Note that these jokers were NOT nuclear physicists. I remember thinking the days of high cost (dollars and environmental damage) energy were over. That quickly evaporated when NOBODY could reproduce the experiment -- such as it was. The cold fusion assert by these guys, IMHO, is a Myth.
Now I read something on He3, a stable atom that shares with hydrogen the feature that the proton count exceeds the neutron count. Some sort of other theory that it might be used to form a cold fusion reaction. BUT, as stated in another post, the stuff is pretty darn rare and the catalyzing effect that is required to sustain such a reaction apparently can not be sustained. So it appears to be a no-go as well.
Just my $0.02. I would not count on that being a part of our future any more than a 15 kw solar array for your house will cost less than a grand.Cold fusion is a "myth" is just like saying 9/11 was carried out by "terrorist"
It's comming apparentlyCold fusion is a mythWell now that cold fusion looks like a reality, I'd imadine something like the ktm with some kind of solid state cold fusion reactor and would most likely last the life of the bike before it would need refueling
Making nuclear materials available to the general public doesn't sound like the best of ideas
All materials are nuclear, cold fusion can use hydrogen and nickle to make a reaction.
Post by: Stusmoke on July 23, 2012, 09:43:51 AM
Post by: citabjockey on July 23, 2012, 06:00:40 PM
For now I will just go out to the garage and turn my power valve spring adjuster to scary mode and have a ball.
I have serious doubts any alternate technology to the internal combustion engine will be viable until the big corporations have bled the gasoline market dry
Post by: Stusmoke on July 24, 2012, 07:37:58 AM
It does seem like the hurdle is batteries -- for many industries, not just bikes. Gas has amazing energy density and an even higher energy per pound so its tough to beat. Hop up a Lithion Ion (or other as yet undiscovered tech) to have 10x the density it has now and make it 1/2 the cost and the barriers go away and Watch Out! Problem is that is a very tall order.
For now I will just go out to the garage and turn my power valve spring adjuster to scary mode and have a ball.I have serious doubts any alternate technology to the internal combustion engine will be viable until the big corporations have bled the gasoline market dry
This is true. Without considering the environmental impact it has, petrolium is the perfect thing. Hell for all we know the gasoline companies have already developed the ultimate car battery for long term use and are just waiting for Earth to stop bleeding oil before they release it. That way, the get not only every cent they can out of the oil market, but when it dries up they continue to be the main supplier of 'fuel' as it were.
Post by: factoryX on July 24, 2012, 08:31:39 AM
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on July 25, 2012, 06:51:37 PM
You run out of charge in half an hour to an hour. I ride about 5 hours a day for 2 or 3 days. With no way to recharge between rides.
24hp for a 210lb bike is bad. Especially in the Freeride frame. Considering that the 125SX is 200lbs with 35-38hp with MX chassis/suspension. Put a 125 motor in that chassis and it will be around 185lbs.
The Freeride is a beginners bike and it is almost $10k.
Double the price, half the performance and a fifth the range. It is not viable now. But of course the libs are going to tell you it is far superior and put mind bogglingly high taxes on gas (while blaming the oil conmpanies) to make electric price competitive.
Post by: Jeram on July 25, 2012, 11:09:23 PM
max torque at zero rpm means amazing traction as the motor doesnt have to spin faster than the wheel to produce good power.
Post by: Stusmoke on July 26, 2012, 07:59:20 AM
(IMO) I reckon a 24hp elec will be every bit as fast as a 125er in terms of accelleration.
max torque at zero rpm means amazing traction as the motor doesnt have to spin faster than the wheel to produce good power.
Thats a good point, it will doll out the exact same power at every point. I'm unfamiliar with how an electric engine works but it won't rev in the traditional sense.
Talking about this makes me prematurely miss the two stroke engine
Post by: cnrcpla on July 28, 2012, 02:48:56 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 29, 2012, 12:18:56 AM
Electric engines (at least as far as I know) are just a bunch of magnets put together in a circle inside a bigger circle that reverses pullarity after one of the charges passes over another charged metal plate creating a system of push and pull that is generated into a circular motion, for lack of a better explanation. Sorry, I have no idea what parts in an electric motor are called hahaha, I only know from a quick course I took in school a few years ago.
Made sense to me. I wonder if we'll ever come up with a quantam engine. We're not too far off in quantum computers. Speed of light internet, oh yeah
Post by: ford832 on July 29, 2012, 01:46:09 AM
Lame, Crude oil is a bio fuel. Its entirely made of dead plankton(both Animal and plant), and is constantly refueling itself. Oil wells that were empty are once again full to bursting.
Hahahaha,exactly-all you need is to wait for eons,throw in the proper materials,add some geologic heat and pressure in just the right way and you're good to go.Speaking for myself,I just don't have that kind of time.
Post by: factoryX on July 29, 2012, 01:58:39 AM
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-if-oil-is-life-form-oil-wells-that.html
Post by: SachsGS on July 29, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Post by: cnrcpla on July 30, 2012, 02:10:26 AM
Quote
I don't know what to do with all the money pouring in!".I'll give him my adress, I can put the money to good use
Does anyone know about how long it takes for an oil well to "re-fill" so to speak? I mean we have quite a few around the globe, so if one dries up go back to a closed one and continue pumping right?
Post by: Stusmoke on July 30, 2012, 08:49:05 AM
QuoteI don't know what to do with all the money pouring in!".I'll give him my adress, I can put the money to good use
x2 on the where to send it
Post by: Jeram on July 30, 2012, 11:56:38 AM
it is most likely simply crude that was locked in the nearby soils which is infiltrating/leaching slowly back into the well.
because surely the well doesnt create crude oil that's ready to go? the process takes eons to complete, so logic would suggest that if it was creating new oil, it would first be filled with a substance that slowly transforms into crude?
but either way, sand-oils which are filling the well is amazing! becuase oil thats trapped in soil is very expensive to process.
Post by: SachsGS on July 30, 2012, 03:45:42 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on July 30, 2012, 10:42:36 PM
Im no expert but Id say the oil doesnt just fill up the well... that seems like nonsence.
it is most likely simply crude that was locked in the nearby soils which is infiltrating/leaching slowly back into the well.
because surely the well doesnt create crude oil that's ready to go? the process takes eons to complete, so logic would suggest that if it was creating new oil, it would first be filled with a substance that slowly transforms into crude?
but either way, sand-oils which are filling the well is amazing! becuase oil thats trapped in soil is very expensive to process.
I agree. And the rate at which the world burns oil, All of its gonna be gone before it starts returning. It doesn't make much sense that the oil in those wells is just coming out of nowhere. It has to be seeping in from other deposits or something. But I'm no expert either.
Post by: ford832 on July 31, 2012, 12:40:23 AM
http://rense.com/general63/refil.htm
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-if-oil-is-life-form-oil-wells-that.html
Hey,I can find mindless crap on net too........
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CG4QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanswers.yahoo.com%2Fquestion%2Findex%3Fqid%3D20070630220329AA1wahK&ei=fWwYUOLcHYqq8ASA6IDYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGshDfwGVcUV9oTemkT33FwWeYoOQ&sig2=UDB8QcVG9CVVrEyVFSj81g
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CF8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.axisoflogic.com%2Fartman%2Fpublish%2FArticle_15135.shtml&ei=Z20YUKe0JIqQ9QSH_IHQCA&usg=AFQjCNEBbI1kKb3-b_CL_0eEq20QLnUyCQ&sig2=K9zAMN5OevagG43yeTKnXA
...then only difference is,mine is more credible than yours.
Post by: Stusmoke on July 31, 2012, 06:53:06 AM
http://rense.com/general63/refil.htm
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-if-oil-is-life-form-oil-wells-that.html
Hey,I can find mindless crap on net too........
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CG4QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanswers.yahoo.com%2Fquestion%2Findex%3Fqid%3D20070630220329AA1wahK&ei=fWwYUOLcHYqq8ASA6IDYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGshDfwGVcUV9oTemkT33FwWeYoOQ&sig2=UDB8QcVG9CVVrEyVFSj81g
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CF8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.axisoflogic.com%2Fartman%2Fpublish%2FArticle_15135.shtml&ei=Z20YUKe0JIqQ9QSH_IHQCA&usg=AFQjCNEBbI1kKb3-b_CL_0eEq20QLnUyCQ&sig2=K9zAMN5OevagG43yeTKnXA
...then only difference is,mine is more credible than yours.
I just wet myself a little...
Post by: factoryX on March 05, 2013, 12:01:33 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on March 05, 2013, 12:57:42 AM
Quote
But hey, you keep searching for aliens on Google.Forget aliens, Ford searches for the new Miaco, right Ford?
Post by: TMKIWI on March 05, 2013, 05:04:03 AM
QuoteBut hey, you keep searching for aliens on Google.Forget aliens, Ford searches for the new Miaco, right Ford?
Yeh ,But he will have better luck finding the aliens.
Post by: ford832 on August 01, 2012, 08:53:31 PM
Lol,I was thinking the same thing TMKIWI.Have no fear sachs and cncrpla,my search for things mythical,both beings and machines continues.......
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFUQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnHhePr0TKfc&ei=VdsaUPLfD8j30gHq7oGwBg&usg=AFQjCNHj4mfLzGJILv0BUAWAGvdN2NhNwA&sig2=npKr57fuCLuYDlipyo1UOg
Post by: SachsGS on August 02, 2012, 12:52:15 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on August 02, 2012, 07:08:19 AM