Post by: Chris2T on September 02, 2012, 01:51:45 AM
Nice to see one of the most well respected magazines in the entire motorcycle industry speak the truth about 4 strokes. When the di 2 strokes break cover i wonder if the AMA will be forced to reconsider their rules, in order to let this new technology have a chance at competing. Or perhaps the new motors can defeat the 4 strokes, handicap or not!
Post by: Logan Dewey on September 02, 2012, 03:21:00 AM
Post by: Jeram on September 02, 2012, 07:36:59 AM
Huskys promise of a DI 2T for this year which they failed to deliver? or KTMs great DI 2T which is apparently in the closet just like R-kelly and Tom Cruise from that southpark episode.
I dont have access to that magazine unfortunately, would you be able to scan and post it up?
Post by: Jeram on September 02, 2012, 07:42:14 AM
here it is.
nothing new really unfortunately.
perhaps we will see the husky released this time next year, but it will likely just be more waiting.
I've been hearing the 'next year its comming' for years (since 2008 I beleive). It started with KTM, then Husaberg, Husaberg again, Then Gas Gas and TM, and now its Husqvarna's turn
Post by: metal_miracle on September 02, 2012, 01:48:44 PM
Post by: Chris2T on September 02, 2012, 01:57:32 PM
Post by: chump6784 on September 02, 2012, 09:16:57 PM
I think it has something to do whit when euro 4-5 emission standard comes in to effect
Yep. Ktm has said that when their road legal 2 strokes can no longer pass emissions tests they will bring out their DI EXC. Until then they are sticking with the carb
Post by: Jeram on September 02, 2012, 10:02:29 PM
If they were comming out next year we would have surely had a teaser video or a international motor show appearance by now. I'm personally going to say that they are more than 12 months off.
Interesting thing is that snowmobiles gradually stepped from carb to efi and then dfi, whereas the bikes are making an enormous leap carb to dfi
Post by: Stusmoke on September 04, 2012, 11:34:29 PM
Euro 5 has already been and gone if I am correct? Euro 6 is 2015 yes?
If they were comming out next year we would have surely had a teaser video or a international motor show appearance by now. I'm personally going to say that they are more than 12 months off.
Interesting thing is that snowmobiles gradually stepped from carb to efi and then dfi, whereas the bikes are making an enormous leap carb to dfi
I was going to point that out too. But another thing thats noteworthy is that DI in a two stroke would most likely remove the need for fuel to be in the crank case. Maybe someone will make a DI 2 stroke car with a sump to save mixing the gas. That would indeed be interesting and once you slap on a turbo with that direct injection it would definitely be exciting to see the dyno curve.
Post by: citabjockey on September 05, 2012, 12:17:05 AM
As far as bikes going straight from carbs to DI there are a couple of examples to the contrary. 4 stroke bikes have had fuel injection for awhile and OSSA makes a trials bike with FI as well. But yes, it will be a big stretch from what we have now (stone knives and bear skins) to reliable DI two stroke dirt bikes (spaceships).
Euro 5 has already been and gone if I am correct? Euro 6 is 2015 yes?
If they were comming out next year we would have surely had a teaser video or a international motor show appearance by now. I'm personally going to say that they are more than 12 months off.
Interesting thing is that snowmobiles gradually stepped from carb to efi and then dfi, whereas the bikes are making an enormous leap carb to dfi
I was going to point that out too. But another thing thats noteworthy is that DI in a two stroke would most likely remove the need for fuel to be in the crank case. Maybe someone will make a DI 2 stroke car with a sump to save mixing the gas. That would indeed be interesting and once you slap on a turbo with that direct injection it would definitely be exciting to see the dyno curve.
Post by: Stusmoke on September 05, 2012, 12:40:20 AM
There will not be a DI 2-stroke with a sump. The intake air has to pass through the crankcase -- unless you superchange it. Sump oil bath would smoke like crazy and suck out all the oil. So the only way to oil the bearings/piston is with an injection system as no fuel will be squirted in there.
As far as bikes going straight from carbs to DI there are a couple of examples to the contrary. 4 stroke bikes have had fuel injection for awhile and OSSA makes a trials bike with FI as well. But yes, it will be a big stretch from what we have now (stone knives and bear skins) to reliable DI two stroke dirt bikes (spaceships).Euro 5 has already been and gone if I am correct? Euro 6 is 2015 yes?
If they were comming out next year we would have surely had a teaser video or a international motor show appearance by now. I'm personally going to say that they are more than 12 months off.
Interesting thing is that snowmobiles gradually stepped from carb to efi and then dfi, whereas the bikes are making an enormous leap carb to dfi
I was going to point that out too. But another thing thats noteworthy is that DI in a two stroke would most likely remove the need for fuel to be in the crank case. Maybe someone will make a DI 2 stroke car with a sump to save mixing the gas. That would indeed be interesting and once you slap on a turbo with that direct injection it would definitely be exciting to see the dyno curve.
Good point on the sump part. But the OSSA comment reminds me didn't one of our members buy 1 out of 5 OSSA 300 FI enduro machines? What was his name.... He owned a mechanic shop. Daosplace. Where the hell is he? I'm dying to hear how that bike went.
Post by: Jeram on September 05, 2012, 01:17:49 AM
only pictures of the bike at the motor show.
IMO, the ossa is more than 12 months away also.
but also interestingly the OSSA adventure bike which is half way between a trials bike and an enduro bike is on youtube being tested by a spanish journalist. looks like a nice bike for trecking through rough terrain. (think its basically the same motor as the enduro bike, but Im not sure)
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on September 05, 2012, 01:14:00 PM
Although I think it is possible for somone to make a 2T DI Microcar (i.e. Axiom, Ligier etc), I find it unlikely. What I see going into them now are 4T Diesels due to the crazy high price of gas here in Europe (US Military bases are ove $4 per gallon, the locl economy is over 1.60 euro per liter!).
Fuel efficiency is the mantra today, not performance.
Post by: SachsGS on September 05, 2012, 03:18:48 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on September 05, 2012, 03:37:05 PM
The modern automotive diesels are providing both fuel economy and performance.
Not in Microcars!
Post by: Stusmoke on September 06, 2012, 09:22:31 AM
(US Military bases are ove $4 per gallon, the locl economy is over 1.60 euro per liter!).
Fuel efficiency is the mantra today, not performance.
Thats about $2 AUD. Geezus thats madness. put 50 litres in your ute and thats 100 bucks thats rediculous. We pay about $1.5 AUD a litre here for 92 octane swill.
Post by: Coop on September 07, 2012, 01:43:22 PM
Post by: Uniflow on September 09, 2012, 12:22:35 AM
Post by: Jeram on September 09, 2012, 09:46:48 AM
Would suck to be half way through the process of building one and husqvarna comes up with there DI 2T haha.
more info on your bike? is it the 500 weve been hearing about?
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 05:08:36 AM
ighorn 1973. This only a test hack. A VMX bike.
Post by: TMKIWI on September 15, 2012, 06:09:56 AM
I'll see you there if you are.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:15:46 AM
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:25:02 AM
You can see the injector nozzles in the in the back of the crankcase ( x2).
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:27:37 AM
You can see the injector bodies in the intake cavity behind the cylinder.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:31:11 AM
Flywheel side, one censor run's the ignition ( Ignitec ) and the other run's the EFI system using a 12 minus 1 trigger wheel.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:38:04 AM
This bike has a vairable rotary valve housing operated by the Ignitec ignition. From 55 degrees valve closing at low speed to 78 Degrees at full throttle.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 06:42:11 AM
Cylinder head.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 07:18:36 AM
Fueling changes. Link EFI has the ability to change the fueling as the head temp changes. With Ethanol the fuel requirement changes above 70 degrees C, more fuel required. This can be changed on a graph that uses TPS and Temp. This information is overlaid the main fuel map. Very handy with an air cooled engine.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 07:30:30 AM
Post by: TMKIWI on September 15, 2012, 10:38:53 AM
The build is in the vintage section.
I havn't even riden it yet, just a couple of heat cycles in the shed.
Will get it out this week to run it in and jet it. Hopefully.
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 11:56:34 AM
Post by: SachsGS on September 15, 2012, 03:18:40 PM
Post by: lauterbacher on September 15, 2012, 05:36:42 PM
Post by: Uniflow on September 15, 2012, 09:26:51 PM
An exhaust power valve would be next on the development list.
I think this engine is as far as I want to go with development, I only did it to see if it could be done, EFI that is. I bought a YZF 250 to start the next development, throw the engine out and fit a 350 twostroke with EFI. This new water cooled engine will have a powervalve and I would like to use the vairable rotary valve again as it shows good results. Probably will run it on ethanol again as well. Trouble is, Meagan my daughter thinks the YZF is her's now and is using for trail riding. The new engine will probably take a little time to build up anyway.
Post by: 2T Institute on September 15, 2012, 10:51:02 PM
Nice to see Kiwi ingenuity is alive and well
Post by: Uniflow on September 16, 2012, 01:33:15 AM
Yes I know Bill, race with him. Lucky I'm not in his class though, because I'm not in his class. He is faster than me. So comes the relentless quest for MORE POWER!
Wobbly is involved with the new engine design, he is simulating the ports, exhaust and rotary valving at the moment. I have an onther set of YZF cases that I've clocked up in the mill. Usually we cut a pattern and cast cases but this time I might just cut from solid alloy, depends on cost. This way I can manipulate the new engine to fit the original frame mounts and not cut. I don't think people realise the damage you do to modern alloy frames by welding them. Frame goes soft and will crack! These frames are heat treated to probably T6 in the factory and can not welded without re heat treating afterwards. I'm even considering designing in a balance shaft to make it less stress on the alloy frame. Maybe?
Post by: lauterbacher on September 16, 2012, 04:05:33 AM
Post by: SachsGS on September 16, 2012, 04:13:01 AM
Post by: Uniflow on September 16, 2012, 07:15:50 AM
Post by: Uniflow on September 16, 2012, 07:36:46 AM
Post by: Jeram on September 16, 2012, 09:34:12 AM
One problem I found with the bighorn rotary valve was that it is difficult to increase the area of the inlet passage (at the disc) to equal that of a 44mm carb (or a 44mm throttle body). I found that you could increase the area to the equivalent of a 41mm throttle body via widening the inlet of the stock disc cover.
How did you overcome this? and what size throttle body are you running?
Post by: 2T Institute on September 16, 2012, 11:36:18 AM
2T Institute, you probably already know all about twostroke EFI, I'm teaching Wobbly, as if! I suppose what I'm trying to say here in general is, don't just sit there and wish for EFI, It''s a workable solution now. It works and works well.
Yes I know Bill, race with him. Lucky I'm not in his class though, because I'm not in his class. He is faster than me. So comes the relentless quest for MORE POWER!
Wobbly is involved with the new engine design, he is simulating the ports, exhaust and rotary valving at the moment. I have an onther set of YZF cases that I've clocked up in the mill. Usually we cut a pattern and cast cases but this time I might just cut from solid alloy, depends on cost. This way I can manipulate the new engine to fit the original frame mounts and not cut. I don't think people realise the damage you do to modern alloy frames by welding them. Frame goes soft and will crack! These frames are heat treated to probably T6 in the factory and can not welded without re heat treating afterwards. I'm even considering designing in a balance shaft to make it less stress on the alloy frame. Maybe?
I know SFA about EFI. If Bill ever gets a bit cheeky (
) about his riding prowess ask him what happened when he rode a TS400 at Classic Dirt I'll see if I can dig up the pic of him riding my TS 400. Have you tried injecting a BDC that is when the pull from the pipe is strongest.
Post by: scotty dog on September 16, 2012, 11:52:24 AM
Post by: Uniflow on September 16, 2012, 09:06:49 PM
That's a big nutshell.
Post by: 2T Institute on September 17, 2012, 10:43:45 AM
Post by: Uniflow on September 18, 2012, 12:13:57 AM
I'm sure Lozza, he will spill the beans. He's just making sure I don't do my "usual" and just estimate port time area's. His simulator is way more accurate than me.
Post by: Davo on September 21, 2012, 12:03:28 AM
Did you consider using Ignitech's combined ignition and EFI ECU... the Ignijet? How hard/easy was it to nail down the fuel maps to give good running across a range of temps and conditions?
Hey Jeram, this is where youve been hiding... found your name all over this forum, forum whore! he he (dmcca here)
Post by: Jeram on September 21, 2012, 05:26:12 AM
In not a forum whore, I dont get paid for it...
-Im a forum slut haha
Post by: Uniflow on September 21, 2012, 11:44:50 PM
Post by: Uniflow on September 21, 2012, 11:56:31 PM