Post by: SpeckleZz on May 20, 2013, 07:32:19 PM
Picked up my KTM 150 at Christmas and it's been a great bike all winter had no problem with it on my field, that all changed on april 16th. Decided to get away from my field and venture to one of my local tracks, it's a sand track but not stupidly deep, it ran fine the first session then two laps into the second session it stopped instantly. I knew the bike had ceased, and was surprised that after 8 hours of riding it had blown up. Got home that day and took the bike apart, the piston was badly damaged and that's all. I was advised to put a bigger jet in so I swapped the standard 182 to a 185.
after that the bike ran fine the next 2 weeks then just last sunday the bike blew up again 3 laps into practice, the dirt type was loamy.
what is going on why is it ceasing up? please help!!!
Post by: JoeyG on May 20, 2013, 08:42:45 PM
Post by: SpeckleZz on May 20, 2013, 10:20:13 PM
Post by: _X_ on May 20, 2013, 11:10:04 PM
Post by: evo550 on May 20, 2013, 11:13:06 PM
Have you cleaned the cylinder yet ?
Post by: HCE on May 21, 2013, 12:31:27 AM
Post by: Watson777 on May 21, 2013, 02:42:49 AM
Post by: fabbo on May 21, 2013, 09:38:32 AM
I really hope we can all work this one out for you.
Post by: evo550 on May 21, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
An old CR250 piston, went through 2 within an hour of use, turned out to be a lean air/fuel mixture (in my case an air leak). It was still running with this.
Has bike ever "run on" or reved high with shut off throttle after being open under power ? (sort of like a stuck throttle cable). What does your spark plug look like?
Post by: SachsGS on May 21, 2013, 03:05:52 PM
Post by: eprovenzano on May 21, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
Post by: lauterbacher on May 21, 2013, 05:32:46 PM
Post by: metal_miracle on May 21, 2013, 08:15:13 PM
Post by: SpeckleZz on May 21, 2013, 10:56:27 PM
to answer a few questions
not sure with the octane, but it's unleaded petrol
Fuel to oil ratio is 1:40
Cooling and water pump is fine
Not sure about an air leak
Jetting is 185
Post by: evo550 on May 22, 2013, 12:05:19 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on May 22, 2013, 02:20:22 AM
Post by: TotalNZ on May 22, 2013, 05:39:13 AM
Post by: Stusmoke on May 22, 2013, 06:53:55 AM
Wow, thanks a lot for all your help
to answer a few questions
not sure with the octane, but it's unleaded petrol
Fuel to oil ratio is 1:40
Cooling and water pump is fine
Not sure about an air leak
Jetting is 185
You need to find out the octane rating of the fuel you're using. I would'nt go any less than 91 with no ethanol.
Fabbo raised a good point, are you certain that the break in the ring(s) is sitting over the bridge in the piston's ring groove?
post up pictures of your cylinder. Your description of it sounds bad. Also post up a picture of the zappy end of your spark plug.
EDIT: my bad for the poorly worded bridge sentence. Its been corrected.
Post by: TMKIWI on May 22, 2013, 08:17:25 AM
Also post up a picture of the zappy end of your spark plug.
Is that a technical term stu.?
Post by: Stusmoke on May 23, 2013, 07:54:33 AM
Also post up a picture of the zappy end of your spark plug.
Is that a technical term stu.?
Hey it zaps so why not call it the zappy end?
Whats the fun in spark testing if you don't use your own body as the ground 
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on May 23, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
Also post up a picture of the zappy end of your spark plug.
Is that a technical term stu.?
Hey it zaps so why not call it the zappy end?
Hahaha thought it was just us farmers that tested electrics by putting our fingers electrical stuff and turning the engine over in the hope of being electrocuted.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 23, 2013, 11:00:18 PM
Also post up a picture of the zappy end of your spark plug.
Is that a technical term stu.?
Hey it zaps so why not call it the zappy end?
Hahaha thought it was just us farmers that tested electrics by putting our fingers electrical stuff and turning the engine over in the hope of being electrocuted.
I've lived out in the country my whole life, so thats mostly true
Post by: SpeckleZz on May 23, 2013, 11:59:21 PM
Frustrated at KTM I rang my dealer back up and told them to sort this out, so they said send the piston, cylinder, barrel and spark plug to them, so I did. They phoned today and said the bike was running too lean. So correct me if I'm wrong, the two times I ceased the bike up I was on the gas and there's not been enough oil going through making the bike overheat. I've never had this problem on my 2010 125 and I wish my dealer had said if your quite a fast lad then step up the jetting. I did some searching and I've heard 195 - 205. But I'll got on a KTM forum to find out most probably.
Thanks to everyone who helped to find the source of the problem you've been great help.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 24, 2013, 12:38:19 AM
Guys I think I solved it.
Frustrated at KTM I rang my dealer back up and told them to sort this out, so they said send the piston, cylinder, barrel and spark plug to them, so I did. They phoned today and said the bike was running too lean. So correct me if I'm wrong, the two times I ceased the bike up I was on the gas and there's not been enough oil going through making the bike overheat. I've never had this problem on my 2010 125 and I wish my dealer had said if your quite a fast lad then step up the jetting. I did some searching and I've heard 195 - 205. But I'll got on a KTM forum to find out most probably.
Thanks to everyone who helped to find the source of the problem you've been great help.
No, theres been too much oil going through. Well thats not the cause, the cause is that your bike has a lean Air/Fuel mixture. Lack of oil is not to blame.
Whenever someone is referring to a rich or lean air/fuel mixture, they are using rich and lean with respect to the fuel that is in the mixture. Therefore, if your bike is running lean, then there is too much air and not enough fuel in the combustion chamber. This results in an increase in the heat generated by the combustion of the fuel and air and its what was causing your seizure problems. Lucky its not a four stonk
go on KTM talk, find out what the usual temperature is where you ride, go on google maps to find your elevation, provide these details to the guys on KTMtalk and watch the magic happen.
Post by: 2T Institute on May 24, 2013, 09:25:28 AM
Post by: Coop on May 24, 2013, 01:41:26 PM
And like Stu said the mix isn't involved in jetting. Mix is fuel/oil, jetting is fuel/air.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 25, 2013, 01:07:03 AM
Good luck, glad you got the problem sorted.
Post by: evo550 on May 25, 2013, 10:47:55 AM
Guys I think I solved it.
Frustrated at KTM I rang my dealer back up and told them to sort this out, so they said send the piston, cylinder, barrel and spark plug to them, so I did. They phoned today and said the bike was running too lean. So correct me if I'm wrong, the two times I ceased the bike up I was on the gas and there's not been enough oil going through making the bike overheat. I've never had this problem on my 2010 125 and I wish my dealer had said if your quite a fast lad then step up the jetting. I did some searching and I've heard 195 - 205. But I'll got on a KTM forum to find out most probably.
Thanks to everyone who helped to find the source of the problem you've been great help.
It's not the dealers fault that it's running lean, how were they to know how, what, where, when and why you ride it.
You would have got a manual with it, read it and use whats recommended for your circumstances (as a starting point). Temp, altitude and atmospheric conditions all play a part in your jetting. Mix your fuel to KTM specs 50/60 :1 and leave. Then work on getting the jetting right.
Don't despair...in 5 yrs, 27 pistons and 6 cylinders you'll be a real pro at jetting.
Post by: 2T Institute on May 26, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
Dont take what were saying to mean that you can just put whatever amount of oil in you feel like. When a bike is jetted, it needs to be jetted for a specific fuel/oil ratio, that is, your fuel. If you run 32:1 and you rejet your bike for that oil/fuel ratio, you need to stick to it. Its no good waking up one morning and thinking hey I wonder if I should try 25:1 maybe it will make my engine last longer. Thats not good and the reason is that, becasue there is more oil in the fuel at 25:1 than there is a 32:1, it translates into a leaner air/fuel mixture during the combustion cycle. Granted a change that small wouldn't be a disaster I'm just using that as an example. If you dramatically change your premix ratio, you might need to rejet. But its usally just one size either side and it sounds like you bought that bike brand new so there should be a few optional pilots, needles and mains. Hopefully you can get away with using those.
Good luck, glad you got the problem sorted.
25:1 =4% oil and 32:1=3% oil is your bike jetted to within 1% of a seizure? You should be running 20-25:1 anyway.
Post by: motoxr377 on May 26, 2013, 09:41:51 PM
Post by: Stusmoke on May 26, 2013, 10:00:40 PM
Post by: _X_ on May 26, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
Post by: TotalNZ on May 26, 2013, 10:15:52 PM
Post by: _X_ on May 26, 2013, 10:17:42 PM
Post by: TotalNZ on May 26, 2013, 10:26:35 PM
stu will beat expierience with quick strong leg attacks.HaHa yes, yes he will. Those leg strikes will leave him wondering where the big overhand bomb came from though.
It's an age thing.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 26, 2013, 10:49:46 PM
Stu, 2T has been tuning and building 2T motors for longer than you've been around. And to be honest most of your post's seem based on what you've heard second hand not your actual experience. I mean how many times have you jetted a 2T how many plug chops have you even done? You just took a whole paragraph to tell someone that they can't just wake up one morning and change there mixture from 25/1 too 32/1 without rejetting. Of course you can, Change back and forth as much as you like it'll make no real world difference, unless like 2T says your bike's jetted just shy of seizing. He's just calling you on some of the statements you post up on here like you know and you've done it hundred times before. Nothing beats experience.
You obviously didn't read my post either.
Its no good waking up one morning and thinking hey I wonder if I should try 25:1 maybe it will make my engine last longer. Thats not good and the reason is that, becasue there is more oil in the fuel at 25:1 than there is a 32:1, it translates into a leaner air/fuel mixture during the combustion cycle. Granted a change that small wouldn't be a disaster I'm just using that as an example. If you dramatically change your premix ratio, you might need to rejet. But its usally just one size either side and it sounds like you bought that bike brand new so there should be a few optional pilots, needles and mains. Hopefully you can get away with using those.
Good luck, glad you got the problem sorted.
Can I make it any clearer?
I've lost count of how many times I've openly said that I don't know much. But that is completely irrelevant in this case. If what I had said was flat out wrong then I would take the hit, admit it and apologize. But its not. Its all true, its all fact and the only reason **** features picked that bit out and had a go was to give himself his morning shot of ego juice.
stu will beat expierience with quick strong leg attacks.
Pigs arse. Last fight I was in was grade four. I wailed him but I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag I don't think. I'd rather not find out.
Post by: TMKIWI on May 27, 2013, 06:48:09 AM
I've lost count of how many times I've openly said that I don't know much.
Want some free advice.?
If you are not sure about a subject , why not just read what other people say and learn from it instead of posting something that may be wrong.
Thats how we all learn, from listening to others with more experience.
Thats what my father taught me anyway.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 27, 2013, 07:36:14 AM
I've lost count of how many times I've openly said that I don't know much.
Want some free advice.?
If you are not sure about a subject , why not just read what other people say and learn from it instead of posting something that may be wrong.
Thats how we all learn, from listening to others with more experience.
Thats what my father taught me anyway.
I quite agree. My old man taught me the same the. Well different wording but same thing. If im not sure about something I'll do one of two things: post it up anyway and make it abundantly clear that I'm not sure, or not do it at all. As my old man often says its better to shut your mouth and be thought a fool than to open in and remove all doubt.
Post by: Coop on May 27, 2013, 10:37:42 AM
.
Post by: Stusmoke on May 27, 2013, 10:51:23 AM