Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: westsiderippa on November 26, 2010, 10:07:32 PM
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and they are for sale, hmmm, im thinking right now, hahaha
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/mcy/2078292622.html (http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/mcy/2078292622.html)
here is a question though, will these guys convert a roller chassis for you if you send them your frame?
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Those look amazing. Not sure about the chassis, Im sure they would for the right price.
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:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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and they are for sale, hmmm, im thinking right now, hahaha
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/mcy/2078292622.html (http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/mcy/2078292622.html)
here is a question though, will these guys convert a roller chassis for you if you send them your frame?
Check this link....
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2008/12/aluminum-frame-conversions/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2008/12/aluminum-frame-conversions/)
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Good looking bikes, I am just not a big bore fan. I like "hybrid" builds though. Seeing all the KX125's with a KDX engines in them over on kdxriders has me cruising c'list for a 125 roller LOL :D.
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Those people got powder coating happy. ;D
Although nice, some parts look better anodized.
MPS does mod frames out for you I believe, atleast they use to. I believe they charge $1400 or so. They have a pretty good name in the industry.
I'm still partial and like mine best. LOL 8)
(http://www.miedosoracing.com/CR500AF-Bailey.JPG)
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I'm still partial and like mine best
As you should be, she's a beaut!
MY 500 AF is coming along slowly. Waiting for the cylinder and head to come
back from Forward Motion so I can wrap up the engine build. I have been
squirreling away parts for months. The folks at one of the big Honda dealers
have been parting out unsold 2008 CRF250s right out of the crate.
Here are some pictures of the finished bottom end and the frame I'm using.
dogger
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR500050.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR50025.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR500frameandswingarm.jpg)
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I'm still partial and like mine best
As you should be, she's a beaut!
MY 500 AF is coming along slowly. Waiting for the cylinder and head to come
back from Forward Motion so I can wrap up the engine build. I have been
squirreling away parts for months. The folks at one of the big Honda dealers
have been parting out unsold 2008 CRF250s right out of the crate.
Here are some pictures of the finished bottom end and the frame I'm using.
dogger
Just bad ass!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR500050.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR50025.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/dogger315/CR500frameandswingarm.jpg)
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2smoker what did you use toclean the engine and frame?
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I'll just say. SWEET!!!!
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hmm, a 1983 Maico 490AF...
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It's interesting to note that MPS uses the 450f chassis's for their conversions, it must be frustrating for Honda to have all of these CR500AFs motoing around.
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The other part of that interesting note, is that Service Honda uses the 250F frame, and uses a stock 250F rear wheel. Now the frame things all good, but come on, a 500 with a smaller wheel? Weight savings is my guess, atleast for the magazines to print... Some day I'd like to ride another co's bike, because I just don't see how using a 4 stroke frame on a 2 stroke, matches. My guess is they still turn like a 4 stroke, because the geometry is set up for them, and to track outsides etc. Obviously the 250f handles good compared to the 450F. Mine cuts just like my CR250 did. I'm not making them anymore and really have no interest in any sales in the MX field anymore, so I can speak more freely now. I love my 500 and until I ride one that handles better (not sure how) I'll stick to my 2 stroke frame conversion. The main interesting thing, is that they are finding so many 4 stroke frames to use. I figured out both just part out bikes. I originally thought Service Honda got frames directly from Honda with no VIN, but was corrected on that, and it is just a parted bike. I'm guessing they love when the 4 strokes don't sell, so they can get a brand new bike for like $4500 and then sell all the parts off of them.
I did break down and buy a 4 stroke Friday. >:D CRF50 for my daughter. :P
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because I just don't see how using a 4 stroke frame on a 2 stroke, matches
The CR250 frame you used for your conversion is essentially the same gen 3 frame used on
the CRF450 until the gen 4 was introduced in 2005. Honda didn't build two stroke or four
stroke specific frames. The geometry was the same for both, here are the numbers:
2005 CR250 - rake 26.5 trail 109.8 wheelbase 58.3
2004 CRF450 - rake 26.7 trail 109.5 wheelbase 58.5 (with 22mm offset triple clamps)
The steering head angle is identical, and the rake, trail and wheelbase figures are within
.3mm of being identical. One thing I did find that is specific to each, is the suspension.
When I contacted Pro Circuit about converting my forks and shock from a CRF450 to the
CR500AF. I was told that in addition to the clevis change for the shock, both components
would need to be revalved and sprung for the different (more abrupt) power delivery and
absense of compression braking.
Service Honda uses the 250F frame
AJ opted to use the CRF250 frame vs. the 450F because of it's lighter weight and better
handling characteristics. As far as the 250f's smaller wheel and tire, I agree, the bike
shouldn't even be offered that way. I am still deciding wether to go with a 2.15 or 2.5
rear rim (I may end up lacing both as track conditions demand).
it must be frustrating for Honda to have all of these CR500AFs motoing around.
Unfortunately, with a company as big as Honda, I don't think all those 500AFs even get
noticed.
dogger
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Although they look to be close, if you look again, those are not matching numbers, they were no where close to being the same while on the bike. The 450 was much fatter to make the motor fit. That of course doesn't change handling, but you know what I mean. The 450 just was a tank to drive around, and it would not cut. I rode a 2010 CRF450 and it handles pretty good, but again setup for 4 strokes. As far as suspension, the shocks on 2 strokes and 4 strokes are not the same. I made that mistake and bought a CRF250 shock and it was I think Kayaba or showa and the CR250 was the opposite. It was so close, but no cigar. I actually have heavier springs front and back than the CR250, but lighter than the 450. I use about the same as a 250F spring setup. My bike is very smooth. So 450F suspension setup on it would be way to harsh for me. Honda notices, trust me. They did NOT want Service Honda's bikes with the name CR on them anymore. They also did NOT want their bikes racing against them in races. If you go read what AJ had said, he had high hopes for their bikes to race and even had some riders to run in the series. No can do, said Honda.
Dogger, by the way, what is that big thing sticking out on the bottom where the shift lever will be? Never seen that before. I will say those cases are very cool looking. Just curious what that is though.
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I agree with you in regards to the CRF450 handling like a tank. I think some of that is because
of the 20+ lb weight increase over the CR250. Some of it is due to thumpers steering mostly
with the front wheel instead of the rear like a two stroke, and some of it is due to the linear
power delivery of the four stroke that makes the bike feel less lively (and more boring).
I raced the CR250 until 2004 when I switched to the CRF450, so I had first hand experience with
both powerplants in the gen 3 frame. IMO, the type of engine had more to do with the difference
in feeling between the two than anything else.
My comment about Honda not noticing the CR500AFs was more to do with Honda making the decision
to abandon the open class two stroke years before the four stroke became their dominant (and now,
only), offering. I'm sure Honda notices the 500AFs, I guess I should have said they don't care since
two strokes and 500s don't fit in their corporate plans.
From what I understand, the "CR" restriction has to do with licensing issues. Only Honda Motor Corp
can build and sell CRs. Unlike you and I, AJ, as an affiliate with a Honda dealer, could face legal action
for ignoring that. He had to obtain a waiver from Honda just to assemble 500 engines after the OE supply
ran out.
None of the manufacturers want their 250Fs racing heads up with 250 two strokes for reasons you and I
know too well.
The suspension changes between the CRF450 and the CR500AF for my weight and ability (180 lbs vet A),
consist of a switch from a 5.4 to a 5.6 shock spring, sticking with the exsisting .435 fork springs, some
valving changes and a longer shock clevis. The forks and shock are the Pro Circuit "works" Showas right
off of my 2008 CRF450.
That bulge in the ignition cover is to prevent rocks and crap thown up by the front wheel from damaging
the shift lever. That's what I was told by several members on "banned". I thought it was there to clear
the clutch actuating arm since the cover is narrower than the stocker. I powder coated the right side
case cover and the water pump cover for increased durability. I got the color match when I built a CR250
engine for another project.
By the way, why did you stop doing the conversions? You do outstanding work, and we need more shops
out there offering services fo the DIYer.
dogger
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I got tired of working :P I was making good money, but just decided I wanted to do more for myself and less for the mighty dollar. I am working on my CR125 now. I will do a complete post on it soon, but let's just say it will be dyno'ed and my hopes are very high. It will be run on "A pump fuel," which ironically is illegal in Pro MX. Isn't it funny how you can run a fuel that is sold for many cars on the road, but can't use it in racing? I find it laughable. I have confidence that this bike will be reliable but very fast. Well it already was pretty fast, I ported the bottom end and topend on the rebuild, but now am redoing some of it for the 144cc kit.
Interesting thing about the shift lever? I personally would rather my lever bend than my case break? I have a ton of levers just piling up though, so to me it doesn't seem like a big deal. LOL. But I understand what you are pointing too. :) But I have been thinking about putting a case saver on it, because I really don't want a rock going through my cases.
My whole point on the CR name brand, is that I remember, I'm thinking, that they originally were called CR500AF's until they got the call from Honda to stop. But I could be wrong.
Now I will say your bike is looking so sweet. But I took everything I learned on banned and CR500 riders and threw it out the window. Look outside of the box when you see their opinions. I saw guys cutting into their frames etc. I bought mounts that were crap from some guy who took nearly a year to get them to me. After that build, I went back and changed everything and was much happier. I didn't have some stupid wings off the top of my frame like they said etc. My first build did and looked horrible. I cut all into my frame etc too. Dumb...
Can't wait to see your final bike. I think it is gonna be Sweeeeet!
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That 125 project sounds good, looking forward to the posts.
Many of the pro rules are ridiculous, the lead ban back in the
late 90s was just one more nail in the coffin for two strokes.
As for the ignition cover bump, who knows why it's really there.
That's why I listed the source of the reason, so you would know
to take it with the obligatory "grain of salt". Case savers are a
much better solution. I'm not too concerned about the ignition
side, but I may mount one on the clutch side. I still have a new
Works Connection case saver complete with weld on mounting
tabs sitting in my garage that I bought back in 2000.
I think you are right about the CR name change, I vaguely remember
that being the case as well. But I think the issue was forced because
of copyright. Remember how Honda had a patent in Japan on the front
brake hose routing? For years, the other manufacturers had less than
stellar brake hose routing (and brake performance) because of that.
dogger
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Dogger, updates?