Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: burn1986 on September 09, 2010, 07:54:03 AM
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Finally, got a follow up letter sent to Al Ludington today. Here it is:
"2-stroke and 4-Stroke Comparisons
-Loretta Lynn??s not dominated by two strokes. Even though we don??t have all the stats concerning the engine type of all the winners at Loretta Lynn??s, 4-strokes dominated even with the inclusion of the 250 2-stroke.
-There are many comparisons of Doug Henry??s 1998 National Championship, but the most important and relevant comparison is that factory 250 2-strokes could not beat the 400 4-stroke. This was also apparent in 1997 when Henry rode the whole year on a 2-stroke without a win and decided to run the 4-stroke at the last round of the SX series in Las Vegas. The result ?? he won. (4-strokes went on to won 10 out of the next 13 years from 1998 through 2010 and increased 50cc). Even though the displacement for the 4-stroke increased by 50cc, no displacement increase was allowed for the 2-stroke. If a 400F beat all 250 2-strokes 13years ago, wouldn??t it stand to reason that a 450F would beat a 300cc?
-Torque figures comparison and power spread. The reason I feel that 150cc is a needed and realistic equivalent to the 250F is the power spread and torque of the 250F. If you will notice in the attached article, the 250F and 250 2-stroke are equal. That??s right ?? equal! http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/TWOSTROKE-VERSUS-FOURSTROKE-MOTOCROSS-SHOOTOUT-YAM-7117.aspx (http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/TWOSTROKE-VERSUS-FOURSTROKE-MOTOCROSS-SHOOTOUT-YAM-7117.aspx)
Petition Stats and Comments
The Petition is still going strong. It is around 2200. The signatures are important, but just as important are the comments. After reading each and every comment, I have divided the comments into the most commonly mentioned:
Number of Comments - 717 out of 2211 signatures
Two Strokes and Rule Change Good for the Sport - 147 or 21%
Cheaper to Maintain and more Economical - 187 or 26%
Less Sound Problems - 16 or 2%
Equal Displacements (250 and 450 for 2-strokes)- 74 or 16%
Displacement of 200 and 400 for 2-strokes - 7 or 1%
Displacement of 175 and 350 for 2-strokes - 9 or 1%
Rule Change would benefit privateers - 40 or 6%
Would provide an Option for racers - 22 or 3%
Would help or affect Families ?? 19 or 3%
http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html (http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html)
All in all, this petition was meant to open up discussions primarily for three reasons:
1.The cost of 4-strokes is too high and many can't afford to race the bikes that the current big 4 factories are making. Only big budget teams can afford to race and it's only getting more expensive.
2. Racers and Amateurs need a choice of bikes to ride. This variety encourages more participation and frees up the rider to compete on a level playing field with a comparable bike of his choice. A150 and 300 would give the rider an option since these bikes are available from a factory, or easily modified from a current 125 and 250.
3. This change is small and can only enhance the sport since it allows more participation and racers competing on comparable machines.
Summary
Will KTM/ Yamaha show up with factory 2-strokes and run away with everything? Will Marvin Musquin show up on a KTM 150 and decimate the field? Will all the satellite teams like JGR, GEICO, Troy Lee, VMS, all start running 2-strokes? Will this ruin 4-stroke development?
I??m sure these fears are similar in scope to the fears of Doug Henry showing up and winning the National Championship on a bigger displacement bike. Even though it was a 4-stroke with 50cc less than is allowed now, he still decimated the field! The simple fact is: 4-strokes will turn faster lap times than their equivalent 2-strokes. The race results from Loretta Lynn??s reflect this. History reflects this. All current results, testing, charts, and research confirm this. If 4-strokes can beat their equivalent 2-strokes, then how much more if the displacements are 100cc and 150cc lower?
Maybe we should be asking: Is it safe? Is it good for the sport? Is it cost effective to all parties involved? I??m sure you would agree that the answer to all these questions is Yes.
Finally, as mentioned in the first proposal, ???Not only will this rule accommodate a technological and efficient race machine, it will ignite a renewed excitement and enthusiasm into a somewhat frustrated and divided fan base. Allowing this rule change will simply bring health and diversity into an already exciting and attractive racing program.?
I also sent a page of some of the Petition comments, so we'll see what comes as a result.
Thanks,
Burn1986
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Good job!
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Thanks, here is Al Ludington's reply...
"Hi Mark,
I will forward this my counterparts at Supercross and Motocross just to keep them up to date. I have spent the past 10 weekends on the road and the racing is going well. I have a few more events to button up the season. Once that is done I can get a little more active on this and see where it stands with our two mx based series. Thanks for your persistence!
Al Ludington
Technical Director
AMA Pro Racing..."
I'm convinced this guy has way more character than Davey Coombs.
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Everyone keeps saying that the majority of riders are in the amateur ranks and can already un CC for CC, but they are missing the point. Only the wealthy or sponsored/supported by someone else can afford to race in the 450 class and why would anyone in the amateur level that aspire to go pro even consider riding a two stroke if they are paying for everything themselves? As soon as they get a shot to go pro, they would immediately have to go out and get a 250f, and spend thousands getting it up to competition worthiness. It just isn't fair to have to transition from one bike to the next just to move on to the next level.
I would be perfectly happy just to allow CCforCC in the 250 class alone, because then the end result would determine if the 450 class should just be an open class. If 4 strokes start getting beat by 2 strokes, then the 2 stroke development cycle would open back up to more modern bikes by the others (maybe not honda).
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Burn you are amazing!
The perfect mix of facts, suggestions and respect. You truly are the man!
Thank you!
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John your comment is spot on... Burn you are DA MAN...
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Cool. It takes one to know one ::)
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Awesome Burn!
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I had to send an Amended letter, since I mistakenly mentioned that Henry did not win a race in 1997, but he actually won 2 races on the 2-stroke before winning on the 400F at Las Vegas. I should have double checked that. Oh well, I don't think it will matter.