Post by: Lolerbabop on October 18, 2012, 01:24:58 PM
FFS WAKE UP!!!
Post by: factoryX on October 18, 2012, 01:31:09 PM
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on October 18, 2012, 05:11:30 PM
Post by: nom de guerre on October 18, 2012, 05:22:51 PM
Post by: Jeram on October 18, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
with the very small amount of info I can find it seems that it works very similar to a lectron carburetor (single circuit, uses metering rods, great fuel atomisation).
The only exception is that its altitude compensating and costs twice as much.
it is interesting though, Id like to be able to read into it more, but for my current bike I cant really justify spending $1500+ for two carbs
Is there any emmisions/power/AFR information on these carbs which proves the claims?
Post by: Jeram on October 18, 2012, 11:17:47 PM
Post by: scottydog on October 19, 2012, 12:22:58 AM
cool gizzmo but stink name.
Post by: _X_ on October 19, 2012, 01:02:48 AM
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 20, 2012, 02:51:40 AM
$775 is a VERY expensive carburetor though!
with the very small amount of info I can find it seems that it works very similar to a lectron carburetor (single circuit, uses metering rods, great fuel atomisation).
The only exception is that its altitude compensating and costs twice as much.
it is interesting though, Id like to be able to read into it more, but for my current bike I cant really justify spending $1500+ for two carbs
Is there any emmisions/power/AFR information on these carbs which proves the claims?
The Lectron is a drag carb though. Works great at WOT. This is supposed to work just as well at low rpm.
I do beleive that is a common misconception
An improperly set up lectron (wrong metering rod) is only good for WOT.
A properly set up lectron as used on many two stroke road racers (especially in america) is great at all throttle openings.
always be careful as the advertiser of a "new and wonderful product" will always take advantage of common misconceptions!
misconceptions
that this carb is the only carb that isnt sensitive to altitude/temp changes.
incorrect: lectrons are also far superior to convetional carbs at alt/temp changes
that this carb is the only carb that can atomise fuel to a smaller droplet size than injection
incorrect: lectron carburetors can also do this in the exact same manor as the 'smart carb'
this carb is superior to lectron carburetors in the fact that its not a drag only carb (as stated by the company owner)
incorrect: the lectron carbs when set up properly are good for all throttle openings
so a properly set up lectron carb can do almost everything that this smart carb does yet costs half as much. The only short fall I can see is that metering rod can be adjusted externally on the smart carb while the engine is running while the lectron metering rod change takes a few minutes per carb (from previous drag racing experience with 4x 40mm lectrons on an 8.7 second GS1500)
I didn't realize, when I read through it the first time, that it was the owner that wrote that statement. Here is the direct quote:
Quote
Phil, there?s no school like old school. You're right the similarities are many, however the distinction between the Lectron and the SmartCarb spans over 40 years of development and is the final design in the long line of Edmonston designed single circuit flat slide carburetors, including the Lake Injector, Pos a Fuel, Lectron, EI Blue Magnum, Quicksilver and AFT?.
The Lectron is widely recognized as a ?drag race? carburetor because it works very well in applications where maximum power is desirable. Which it does well, what it does not do well is provide high signal to the metering rod throughout the whole range of throttle opening and therefore smooth throttling suffers, requiring many different venturi sizes (every 2mm) and has thus gained a reputation as not being very streetable. The reason: Throttle opening and closing is symmetrical in relation to the throttle bore area, which is more or less round. While there have been small improvements over the years with Lectrons, the SmartCarb has a patented variable venturi shape that concentrates and accelerates airflow past the base of the metering rod under all throttle opening positions. This shape provides an extremely high pickup signal to the metering rod in all conditions and is also specific to enhancing air/fuel flow balance in both two cycle and four cycle engines.
The SmartCarb automatically and immediately corrects air/fuel ratios for changes in air density and elevation. The operating principle between the SmartCarb altitude adjustment circuit and a dial a jet (what Lectron calls its Power Jet) is the same; static pressure in the venturi is directly communicated to the float bowl to adjust fuel driving pressures, and ideally fuel flow remains proportional to airflow. The difference is a dial a jet has only a limited number of manual settings and must be reset for large changes in barometric pressures and/or elevation. The dial a jet also has opportunity for flow reversion at very high speeds because it is directly exposed to the venturi via the signal tube. The SmartCarb vents the float bowl directly to a scoop isolated in the venturi away from any opportunity for flow reversion.
$299 will get you dated technology from 30 year old dies. $775.00 will get you state of the art 6061 billet construction, unbelievable atomization, instant throttle response, 30%+ gains in fuel economy, 10%+ gains in HP, 8%+ gains in torque and an emissions reduction.
From what he said, it sounds like there are improvements all over, not a completely new design.
Anyone with Lectron experience outside of drag racing?
Post by: Jeram on October 20, 2012, 10:17:53 AM
I t
Post by: ford832 on October 20, 2012, 02:30:26 PM
Kudos to them if it works but it's a shame they're too late.There may be a very small market in retrofits but not much else I expect.Sort of like trying to build a super-horse to replace the car.
Post by: nom de guerre on October 20, 2012, 03:37:16 PM
With DI and whatnot coming on now,someone is actually wasting time and money to try to build a better carburetor?Seriously?
Kudos to them if it works but it's a shame they're too late.There may be a very small market in retrofits but not much else I expect.Sort of like trying to build a super-horse to replace the car.
Very interesting POV... I am fixated on this carb and will probably try it anyway... I was always interested in the "PSI BIG AIR" carbs years ago too.
Post by: msmola2002 on October 20, 2012, 07:19:26 PM
With DI and whatnot coming on now
Still waiting... til then, I am happy to see some innovation/improvements. And there are how many million old bikes out there? You will have no issues bolting a carb onto an older engine, retrofitting DI will not be easy.
Post by: Kodackamera on October 20, 2012, 11:59:13 PM
I saw the website of an American company producing cylinder heads and other components to retrofit to 2 stroke vehicles in the far east, apparently, successfully reducing much pollution.
I could see this SmartCarb working as a retrofit for 2 strokes in principle. I would be very interested as to wether it has the capability to overcome the temporary leanness for which power jets provided a solution for with conventional flat slide carburetors at sudden WOT, I believe the video claims it uses a single circuit if I heard correctly.
Post by: Kodackamera on October 21, 2012, 12:17:09 AM
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 21, 2012, 04:19:50 AM
With DI and whatnot coming on now,someone is actually wasting time and money to try to build a better carburetor?Seriously?
Kudos to them if it works but it's a shame they're too late.There may be a very small market in retrofits but not much else I expect.Sort of like trying to build a super-horse to replace the car.
I am a big DI proponent, but it is still at least a few years away, IF anybody that "has it" is going to release it.
This carb provides a benefit NOW to all the bikes being ridden. At $400 for the cast version it costs similar to an exhaust but with much more power benefit. Exhausts are a compromise between low end and high.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 24, 2012, 11:31:52 PM
While it's true DI may be a year or two away the fact of the matter is,modern day carbs are actually pretty darn good.
It's great that a couple of you may want to spend a few hundred to get a little supposed gain but you have to remember that 90% of the dirt bike riding population don't even know how to jet their bike let alone fit another type of carb and tune it.
One of the benefits of the SmartCarb is that it takes less to jet it. It comes setup mostly perfect and from there there is only one adjustment, that is located externally, to fix any low end bog. From there the carb adjust to altitude and temperature changes.
Quote
The market for this product would be so small the only reason I can see for pursuing it would be just because you can.I don't see any money being made.Even if it would jump on to your bike by itself,by then DI would have made it obsolete.
They are already getting many sales of the billet versions ($775) right now, and there is lots of interest for the $350-400 cast ones. Companies like Gas Gas have showed some interest for OEM equipment.
What you have to look at is how it compares to other mods too. Often, people spend $350-400 for an exhaust system. At best they produce 5% more peak power, at the expense of bottom end, or a bottom end gain in expense of top end. Pipes, porting, heads, etc. are all compromises. The SmartCarb is designed to atomize fuel better. This benefits in 10% more top end. Atomizing fuel doesn't only benefit one area though.
You can buy an exhaust and get 5% more peak and lose 5-10% bottom, or buy a SmartCarb and get 10% more EVERYWHERE, while also reducing fuel consumption and get automatic adjustment to atmospheric condition changes. Seems like a no brainer to me for an aftermarket mod.
Post by: ford832 on October 24, 2012, 11:47:32 PM
..actually,no I haven't-I just thought I'd throw that in there 
Post by: factoryX on October 25, 2012, 02:27:57 AM
Post by: HCE on October 25, 2012, 03:02:11 AM
weighs less then efi
simpler and easier to repair then efi on Sunday 60 miles from nowhere
Post by: factoryX on October 25, 2012, 03:11:21 AM
It may not have all of the gains that advanced EFI has but its beneficial due to simplicity. Put it on, for get about it...
Post by: TMKIWI on October 25, 2012, 08:11:21 AM
One of the benefits of the SmartCarb is that it takes less to jet it. It comes setup mostly perfect and from there there is only one adjustment, that is located externally, to fix any low end bog. From there the carb adjust to altitude and temperature changes.
Seems like a no brainer to me for an aftermarket mod.
This carb wont come "mostly setup" any more then a pwk. Every carb needs to be tuned for local conditions.
It might be able to change for altitude but no carb can work the same at 5 deg C as at 30 deg C.
The best aftermarket mod you can do is get an engine tuner to set your squish properly and tune the carb to suit.
And the 10% power increase everywhere is just classic marketing bullshit.
Post by: VintageBlueSmoke on October 25, 2012, 09:09:04 AM
And the 10% power increase everywhere is just classic marketing bullshit.
If it sounds too good to be true...It probably is.
Post by: Jeram on October 25, 2012, 10:01:49 AM
I trust their 10% claims.
what I dont trust is that they have neglected to remind people that the stock GG carb is a 36mm, and they would have most likely run it against the 40mm smart carb.
There is your 10% gain (or 4hp)
you could get almost the same gains using an oval bored PWK41.5
or identical gains comparing it to a 40mm lectron.
One thing interesting is how many people on KTMtalk in the two stroke section have ordered these carbs. So atleast we will know very soon whether they work well or not.
Post by: Corey on October 25, 2012, 08:11:49 PM
One of the benefits of the SmartCarb is that it takes less to jet it. It comes setup mostly perfect and from there there is only one adjustment, that is located externally, to fix any low end bog. From there the carb adjust to altitude and temperature changes.
Seems like a no brainer to me for an aftermarket mod.
This carb wont come "mostly setup" any more then a pwk. Every carb needs to be tuned for local conditions.
It might be able to change for altitude but no carb can work the same at 5 deg C as at 30 deg C.
The best aftermarket mod you can do is get an engine tuner to set your squish properly and tune the carb to suit.
And the 10% power increase everywhere is just classic marketing bullshit.
What part of self compensating don't you get?
Post by: 2T Institute on October 25, 2012, 10:32:27 PM
Post by: TMKIWI on October 26, 2012, 01:03:00 AM
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.
Post by: Stusmoke on October 26, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
I am not getting at any of you guys. If you believe in it go get one.
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.
Even though I'm just tuning in now, this has always been my goto response for something that claims a 10% power increase was it?
Come on... That 10% is rather circumstantial don't you think? That would have to be the best case scenario.
Otherwise, I say that until a true Direct Fuel Injection system is brought out, this is a welcome advance. If it works. I'd like to see a more technical explanation of how a carb can automatically adjust for temperature, altitude etc. And I'd DEFINITELY want to see some real to life reviews of it before I go plonking down god-only-knows how many $$ on something that may or may not have the claimed results.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 26, 2012, 01:17:47 AM
I am not getting at any of you guys. If you believe in it go get one.
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.
The reason you aren't getting to us is because the way you are trying to. You say it is no better than a Lectron then provide the reasons why it IS better.
The bottom line is IF it lives up to all the claims, it is well worth the cost and no other mod does the same.
It is okay to be a skeptic because there is little 3rd party testing, that is fine, but you can't attack it by comparing it to something that offers 1/5 the benefits.
So, lets wait and see what people say about it after they use it. And hopefully mags like MXA test it too.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 26, 2012, 01:25:10 AM
I am not getting at any of you guys. If you believe in it go get one.
I have been around long enough to know that just because someone says it's true, doesn't mean it is.
If it works great. But I reserve judgment at this time.
Even though I'm just tuning in now, this has always been my goto response for something that claims a 10% power increase was it?
Come on... That 10% is rather circumstantial don't you think? That would have to be the best case scenario.
Otherwise, I say that until a true Direct Fuel Injection system is brought out, this is a welcome advance. If it works. I'd like to see a more technical explanation of how a carb can automatically adjust for temperature, altitude etc. And I'd DEFINITELY want to see some real to life reviews of it before I go plonking down god-only-knows how many $$ on something that may or may not have the claimed results.
According to them, Gas Gas factory saw a 14% increase.
Hopefully it is true, but I wouldn't expect 10% for most cases. These are all claims from the factory, so who knows. I am definitely waiting for people to test it and 3rd party dyno testing to be done. By the time the affordable cast version comes out, we should know if it is the real deal.
Even at 5%, that is as much as a good exhaust, without the downsides of an exhaust losing bottom end. And if it can help the jetting issues of the 380, and no re-jetting again, then I'm all for it.
Post by: Jeram on October 26, 2012, 04:19:12 AM
we've got people defending a product based on advertisements and here-say and others calling bullshit.
We we find out soon enough via a direct dyno comparison and if nobody ever does a direct dyno comparison we will know why.
Post by: TMKIWI on October 26, 2012, 04:27:54 AM
What part of self compensating don't you get?
I get it. Doesn't mean I have to believe it.
The reason you aren't getting to us is because the way you are trying to. You say it is no better than a Lectron then provide the reasons why it IS better.
? I have never mentioned Lectron.
So, lets wait and see what people say about it after they use it. And hopefully mags like MXA test it too.
Chill dude. I think you will find I said the same thing.
Just didn't put a cherry on top.
Post by: Uniflow on October 29, 2012, 12:26:24 AM
Post by: riffraff on October 29, 2012, 05:47:32 AM
Take your carburettor and find a large deep body of water. Throw said carburettor into that body of water! Fit EFI and don't piss around!
Easy for you to say with your rotary valve intake
Post by: factoryX on October 29, 2012, 11:23:17 AM
Both 4 stroke and 2 stroke, 450 took first in class, the modded banshee took 2nd.
Post by: ford832 on October 29, 2012, 06:26:21 PM
Exactly what are those four wheeled conveyances?
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on October 30, 2012, 01:17:36 AM
Take your carburettor and find a large deep body of water. Throw said carburettor into that body of water! Fit EFI and don't piss around!
Unless it is DI, no way. If the SmartCarb can match EFI performance for a fraction of the cost and without all the electronics then to hell with EFI, don't piss around with it.
Post by: Uniflow on October 30, 2012, 03:08:45 AM
Post by: cnrcpla on October 31, 2012, 12:39:46 AM
Post by: kim wedding on October 31, 2012, 03:37:21 AM
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on November 03, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
Cripes,it even looks like a Lectron.
He did say on KTMTalk,
Quote
Red Edmonston invented the Lake Injector, 1968, the Pos A Fuel, 1971, the Lectron, 1973, the EI Blue Magnum, 1977, the Edelbrock Quiksilver in the 80's, the AFT in the 90's and the SmartCarb (our name) in 2001.
Quote
Yes, Red Edmonston was my friend and I worked with him the last five years of his life. The SmartCarb is the culmination of his life's work and he was working through the last few hard details when he died. The issues he had with Mike were not pretty and there were a lot of hard feelings over the AFT carburetor (after the Quiksilver) that he and Mike had partnered with. He said he always held back the best and I knew the potential this carburetor had, so I partnered with some people and we bought the technology. Red felt very paranoid about this carburetor and expressed to me how much technology had been stolen from him over the years (most recently PSI) so any detailed information from him was pretty vague. He ultimately died of brain cancer and shortly before he died he hid all his technical writings and drawings which we were never able to receive, so if you can imagine trying to learn 45 years worth of experience with these type of fuel systems was difficult to say the least. Past that, correcting the remaining issues.
What we have now though is absolutely the finest mechanical fuel delivery device ever made and we are just scratching the surface of it's atomization potential.
Best Regards,
Corey
So, yes, it looks and functions similar to a Lectron because it IS the same DNA. Just advanced 30 years.
Post by: 2STROKEREVOLUTION on November 03, 2012, 06:20:11 PM
Yes, there is the thinner wallet issue. That is why it is necessary to test it back to back with stock. Bum dyno back to back to really know how it works.
Post by: _X_ on November 03, 2012, 06:24:52 PM
Post by: ford832 on November 03, 2012, 08:23:14 PM
can you post a pic of this bum dyno you talk about ?
Eeeeeeuuuuwwwwww
If you like those kind of pics racerx,you're really on the wrong site. 
I used to lust after a ported and blueprinted RZ with Toomey's and Lectrons.I still do actually......
Post by: _X_ on November 03, 2012, 08:51:28 PM
don't know what you were thinking.
Post by: ford832 on November 03, 2012, 09:42:14 PM
Post by: gpnewhouse7 on November 03, 2012, 09:47:44 PM
History deleted.
Post by: ford832 on November 03, 2012, 10:18:34 PM
I think I'll get rid of it before someones wife sees it on their history. 