Two Stroke Motocross
Two Stroke Motocross Forum => General Two Stroke Talk => Topic started by: IPoopPickles on November 17, 2010, 09:20:36 AM
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Hello forum. :)
Ive been lurking on this site for a while and thought I would join. I love all the articles and insight here, and since Im snowed-in today I thought I would kill a little time boring you with my story. :)
I grew up on a farm, and have been riding dirty bikes for as long as I can remember. Started out on a YZinger, then a KX80, Rm125, KDX200 (really learned how to ride on that bulletproof bike) then when I was 16 I saved all my pennies and bought a 87 KX500. That was in 97 I think... the bike was a former ice race machine, was bored, piped, had a beefy clutch, and in general was scary. :) The next year I bought a 93 KX250 from a farmer who bought it to check irrigation pipe. He told me on his third ride it flipped on him, and that was it, he parked it in the barn and bought a quad. :D The bike had at most 5-10 hours on it, the factory rubber still had the tits on the knobs. I still have that bike and am doing a complete teardown on it. Here is a pic of Old Bess...
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/Halluci_n8/KX250.jpg?t=1290014275)
My last bike was a 2000 XR650R. I know... heavy old thumper, but it was anything but slow. I loved that bike for the bush, still don't understand why Honda dropped that bike. The motor in my opinion was exactly how a four stroke should be. Long stroke and bulletproof. Too bad the rest of the bike was flexy and came with CR parts designed for a 220 pound MXer, not a 290 pound, 100mph desert machine. Brakes would fade, fork flexed like crazy, and I nearly went broke trying to find replacement wheels. Rear wheel bearings wouldnt last either, that bike just had SO much tourque.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/Halluci_n8/100_1750.jpg?t=1290013461)
Anyways, I want to get back into MX and am looking for a two stroke. Now Ive never been a Yamaha guy but to be fair Ive never rode a new-ish YZ250. Heard nothing but good things about the bike and from what Ive gathered the ergo's suit bigger riders nicely. At the same time... Ive found a brand new 08 Rm250 being sold dirt cheap by a dealer. A friend of mine had a 07 Rm and that thing honked, I loved how that bike felt, even though it was night and day different from my KX, and I love the feel of a perimeter framed KX. Anyways, since Im getting back into MX, my biggest concern is reliability and aftermarket support. Which would you guys go for, the RM or YZ? Im 6'3", 200 pounds and will be in the junior class.
I have one more question that maybe some of the more mechanically inclined guys can answer. :) On my KX250 after say, a high speed run and the bike was hot, it would make a squeeling noise from the engine. This was rare mind you, it wasnt a constant issue and only after flogging the bike wide open for a stretch. When I pulled in the clutch it would become quiet and stop after a second or two. I took the clutch apart and never seen anything out of the ordinary. Since Im doing a complete restoration on that bike, Im wondering if splitting the cases and doing the mains is a good idea. At the same time Im doing it on a budget. Any ideas?
Thanks for reading! :)
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Welcome to the site!
I'm a Yamaha fan, so of course I'm going to recommend the YZ. :)
I am 6'3 230, my 01 YZ 250 handles me great.
Parts are readily available anywhere, same with the Suzuki as well.
It mainly comes down to preference, or maybe a deal you can't pass up. :)
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Welcome to the site!
I'm a Yamaha fan, so of course I'm going to recommend the YZ. :)
I am 6'3 230, my 01 YZ 250 handles me great.
Parts are readily available anywhere, same with the Suzuki as well.
It mainly comes down to preference, or maybe a deal you can't pass up. :)
Thanks! :)
There are so many YZ fans out there... gotta be a reason for that. ;)
Ive also been looking at KTM's SX 250's, but some guys have told me there are issues with bolts/fasteners ect becoming loose over and over again. Havn't heard anyone complain about the motor though. ;)
Thanks for the reply, guess its gonna come down to favorite color. ;)
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Hello and welcome to the site...
Being a die hard Honda fan i would say to look around for a good used CR but Yamahas are more availible and are great bikes too and would be my 2nd pick.
I'm 6'3" 240#'s and my 03 CR is more than enough for me all the way around,even though im looking for a 500 motor for it :o.
I havent had any trouble finding parts for it but im sure there are other brands that would be easier to find.
Like PowerPlay said it mainly comes down to availabilty in your area and preferance on what brand you want,theres plenty of old 2 strokes out there trust me just dig around some and you'll be suprised what you find ;D
Good luck and let us know what you come up with
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Hello and welcome to the site...
Being a die hard Honda fan i would say to look around for a good used CR but Yamahas are more availible and are great bikes too and would be my 2nd pick.
I'm 6'3" 240#'s and my 03 CR is more than enough for me all the way around,even though im looking for a 500 motor for it :o.
I havent had any trouble finding parts for it but im sure there are other brands that would be easier to find.
Like PowerPlay said it mainly comes down to availabilty in your area and preferance on what brand you want,theres plenty of old 2 strokes out there trust me just dig around some and you'll be suprised what you find ;D
Good luck and let us know what you come up with
I have found a few CR's for sale, and Ive always dug Hondas as well. I have heard they are a little soft down low compared to some other brands, but since Im no Emig Im sure any of the 250's have more than enough power. :) I live in Canada and in the CMRC we are allowed a 285cc max displacement in the MX1 class... I know the Yamaha and Suzuki can be punched out that big, but Im not sure if that can be done to the CR? Can you still keep the powervalve on the CR when doing a 285cc kit?
One thing about the CR's that has me a little concerned is Ive heard in their last production case reed motor they had some detonation issues. Is that a problem for the CR's? As well I have heard the cable controlled powervalve needs alot of attention as far as cable slack is concerned. Just what I have heard though, has anyone had any problems with their CR engines?
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Hello and welcome to the site...
Being a die hard Honda fan i would say to look around for a good used CR but Yamahas are more availible and are great bikes too and would be my 2nd pick.
I'm 6'3" 240#'s and my 03 CR is more than enough for me all the way around,even though im looking for a 500 motor for it :o.
I havent had any trouble finding parts for it but im sure there are other brands that would be easier to find.
Like PowerPlay said it mainly comes down to availabilty in your area and preferance on what brand you want,theres plenty of old 2 strokes out there trust me just dig around some and you'll be suprised what you find ;D
Good luck and let us know what you come up with
I have found a few CR's for sale, and Ive always dug Hondas as well. I have heard they are a little soft down low compared to some other brands, but since Im no Emig Im sure any of the 250's have more than enough power. :) I live in Canada and in the CMRC we are allowed a 285cc max displacement in the MX1 class... I know the Yamaha and Suzuki can be punched out that big, but Im not sure if that can be done to the CR? Can you still keep the powervalve on the CR when doing a 285cc kit?
One thing about the CR's that has me a little concerned is Ive heard in their last production case reed motor they had some detonation issues. Is that a problem for the CR's? As well I have heard the cable controlled powervalve needs alot of attention as far as cable slack is concerned. Just what I have heard though, has anyone had any problems with their CR engines?
Yes you are right on the denotation issue on some year models,i had some on mine first time i rode it but a switch to race gas cured it but u can have the squish cut fairly cheap to cure it and so you can run pump gas.As far as the cable issue goes,its the front cable and it has to be tight or performance will suffer but i tightened mine when i got it and havent had a problem since.As far as big bores i had read about 285 CR's but i dont think the company makes them anymore but there are a few companies that still make the 265 kits,i rode one and it does run better than mine.
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I'd go with the zook, I heard 07 and on rm 250's have awesome grunt and suzuki's have awesome handling.
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You can't go wrong with either bike. KTM's are going like hotcakes right now and the only alternative is YZ which has kept their prices up there. So I have a feeling that you'll get the better value with the RM considering 08 was the last year (and 03+ RM's were awesome). There are still PLENTLY of 01-08 RM parts out there to keep you going in the used market even if the parts counter gets finicky.
I dig that 93 KX. I drooled over those things BIG time in middle school.
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Hello and welcome to the site...
Being a die hard Honda fan i would say to look around for a good used CR but Yamahas are more availible and are great bikes too and would be my 2nd pick.
I'm 6'3" 240#'s and my 03 CR is more than enough for me all the way around,even though im looking for a 500 motor for it :o.
I havent had any trouble finding parts for it but im sure there are other brands that would be easier to find.
Like PowerPlay said it mainly comes down to availabilty in your area and preferance on what brand you want,theres plenty of old 2 strokes out there trust me just dig around some and you'll be suprised what you find ;D
Good luck and let us know what you come up with
I have found a few CR's for sale, and Ive always dug Hondas as well. I have heard they are a little soft down low compared to some other brands, but since Im no Emig Im sure any of the 250's have more than enough power. :) I live in Canada and in the CMRC we are allowed a 285cc max displacement in the MX1 class... I know the Yamaha and Suzuki can be punched out that big, but Im not sure if that can be done to the CR? Can you still keep the powervalve on the CR when doing a 285cc kit?
One thing about the CR's that has me a little concerned is Ive heard in their last production case reed motor they had some detonation issues. Is that a problem for the CR's? As well I have heard the cable controlled powervalve needs alot of attention as far as cable slack is concerned. Just what I have heard though, has anyone had any problems with their CR engines?
Yes you are right on the denotation issue on some year models,i had some on mine first time i rode it but a switch to race gas cured it but u can have the squish cut fairly cheap to cure it and so you can run pump gas.As far as the cable issue goes,its the front cable and it has to be tight or performance will suffer but i tightened mine when i got it and havent had a problem since.As far as big bores i had read about 285 CR's but i dont think the company makes them anymore but there are a few companies that still make the 265 kits,i rode one and it does run better than mine.
Thanks for the info! I guess what I heard was true then. I wouldnt be opposed to owning a Honda at all, Ive never had one treat me wrong. The race gas issue isnt really a big concern, I was planning on finding a nice stocker and going to a 285 kit with a higher compression ratio anyways... Im going to use the bike purely for MX and fix Ol Bess up for the bush again. One thing I really like about my 93 is after a few mods it had tons of grunt. Do you find your CR to be a little soft down low or is that issue overblown?
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You can't go wrong with either bike. KTM's are going like hotcakes right now and the only alternative is YZ which has kept their prices up there. So I have a feeling that you'll get the better value with the RM considering 08 was the last year (and 03+ RM's were awesome). There are still PLENTLY of 01-08 RM parts out there to keep you going in the used market even if the parts counter gets finicky.
I dig that 93 KX. I drooled over those things BIG time in middle school.
The KTM's look sweet, and everyone I know who has rode one said the 250's flat out haul. The biggest thing for me though is reliabilty and dealer support. Right now Im really leaning towards the new 08 RM, problem is I have to sell a crotch rocket before I can justify buying a new bike. I freaking hate payments, Im not gonna finance jack squat.
Thanks for the compliments on the KX. :) I guess Ill have to start a thread on its restoration process soon...
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Welcome.
I would go for the RM.
Nothing against the YZ, but all reports say the yz does everying well.
Just not anything exceptionally.
Love the rm handling.
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No Ricky Carmichaels in this crowd! In my opinion the YZ's have always been a working man's bike, like TMKIWI said , very good but not a strong "character" to the machine. If I read between the lines I sense you would be happiest with the RM or maybe the KTM. Have you considered a TM? The two stroke TM's seem to be popping up everywhere.
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Thanks for the opinions everyone. :)
So I got a price on the new 08 RM250... 5999.00 Canadian OTD. That seems pretty good to me considering I've had quotes on new YZ's at 7800, and the YZ's havnt changed since... 06? A nearby KTM dealership has a 2009 SX250 for sale, when I asked for the best price on it I was told 7300. Yeah the RM is 3 model years old already, but the technology is from the same day and age as the YZ's and its still a brand new bike. Was told it was never fired...
I also asked the Zook dealership if there is any chance the Suzuki two stroke would ever be imported to N.A. again, like they have done in Australia. He told me "No, you wont see them returning because of emission issues."
Seriously?
If thats the case why havn't they been outlawed then? Why can I still go into a Yamaha dealership or KTM shop, walk out and load a 2011 2 stroke into the back of my truck? Seems strange to me, I can't imagine thats an official reason why the factories will not import the bikes.
Anyways... that yellow bike is starting to look really good.
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No Ricky Carmichaels in this crowd! In my opinion the YZ's have always been a working man's bike, like TMKIWI said , very good but not a strong "character" to the machine. If I read between the lines I sense you would be happiest with the RM or maybe the KTM. Have you considered a TM? The two stroke TM's seem to be popping up everywhere.
We used to have a local TM dealer but they shut down a few years back. The bikes looked really nice... but I cant say Ive seen another dealership since.
How are the TM's for reliability? Cost of doing say, a top end? Thanks!
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At 6K that RM is a deal. I paid 5800 for my 08 yz250 and as these get scarce (temporarily before the big 2 stroke comeback) I would jump on that. 7K + is too much. Good luck.
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We used to have a local TM dealer but they shut down a few years back. The bikes looked really nice... but I cant say Ive seen another dealership since.
How are the TM's for reliability? Cost of doing say, a top end? Thanks!
No problem with reliability at all.
Top end prices are the same as anything else if you were putting in an up market piston.
The factory pistons are made Wossner but a Wossner piston is cheaper. If that makes any sense.
They are not everyones cup of tea but if you want a fast bullet proof bike they are hard to go past.
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I also asked the Zook dealership if there is any chance the Suzuki two stroke would ever be imported to N.A. again, like they have done in Australia. He told me "No, you wont see them returning because of emission issues."
Seriously?
I know I always get crap for saying this, but this is total crap!! While maybe in California where they have some serious problems with emissions it could be an issue.
The truth of the matter is that the EPA approved the TM and Maico two-strokes to be imported into the USA. This year! So my inclination is to say someone is either mis-informed or out-and-out lying!
A while back I wrote an article on the main site about emission, the EPA and two-strokes... it's pretty long but very eye-opening if you have the time to read it.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/04/the-epa-vs-motocross/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/04/the-epa-vs-motocross/)
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Welcome to the site pickles, Love the 93 model, i had one new back in 94 and loved it, one of the best bikes i have had, it even broke the power valve flap off and still ran perfectly (i found it in the muffler when i took it off to re pack it)... Make sure you keep us updated on the resto..
I reckon you should go with the new RM too, sounds like a a pretty good deal.. ;)
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I also asked the Zook dealership if there is any chance the Suzuki two stroke would ever be imported to N.A. again, like they have done in Australia. He told me "No, you wont see them returning because of emission issues."
Seriously?
I know I always get crap for saying this, but this is total crap!! While maybe in California where they have some serious problems with emissions it could be an issue.
The truth of the matter is that the EPA approved the TM and Maico two-strokes to be imported into the USA. This year! So my inclination is to say someone is either mis-informed or out-and-out lying!
A while back I wrote an article on the main site about emission, the EPA and two-strokes... it's pretty long but very eye-opening if you have the time to read it.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/04/the-epa-vs-motocross/ (http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/04/the-epa-vs-motocross/)
Very interesting read, thanks for that! It seems to me, from what I read, that the EPA is almost shooting itself in the foot when it came to their clean act legislation. Allowing four strokes to have rich air fuel mixtures ect to perform better, even though it undermines their end goal. Lots of great info in there... I can understand why its easy for your average guy to think the EPA is the evil culprit behind the lack of new two stroke models on your dealership floor, but everything I read there seems to state the EPA has left the door wide open for the manufacturers to prove them wrong in their assessment of two strokes being "unclean".
To look at sleds for a minute, some companies (most notably Yamaha) have really tried to push the four strokes into the market since they are more enviro friendly. The problem is your serious mountain guys are having to turbo the R1 engines that Yamaha drops into their sleds to make them go up hills covered with soft powder. Motocross has always been a power to weight ratio game, but its even more accentuated in sledding. All things being equal, a sled simply does not perform well without running premix. Yeah, you can turbo a 4 stroke, but you can also turbo the two strokes. Some guys are getting 250 HP (or more) out of turbo'd 1 liter two strokes on pump gas. Thats insane! Now that Ski-Doo has come out with a direct injection motor, its only a matter of time until the other manufacturers catch on, because the two strokes are simply more effective on a mountain sled.
Well... anyways I thought it was kinda funny a salesman was telling me you wont see two strokes become imported again since they not emission friendly, yet the other dealer across down the road will happily set you up with a KTM, YZ... ect. Cant wait till people stop forking cash over to the dealers to get new four stroke cylinders, valve trains, heads and make the big manufacturers go back into updating their two stroke lines. If people talk with their wallets they will listen.
I guess in a way its already happening... 6 years ago or so seeing a KTM 2 stroke up in the mountains was kinda rare. They are everywhere up here now. I would bet that literally 1/2 if not more of the bikes I see up in the hills are orange.
Thanks again for the article!
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Welcome to the site pickles, Love the 93 model, i had one new back in 94 and loved it, one of the best bikes i have had, it even broke the power valve flap off and still ran perfectly (i found it in the muffler when i took it off to re pack it)... Make sure you keep us updated on the resto..
I reckon you should go with the new RM too, sounds like a a pretty good deal.. ;)
Thanks, that bike was awesome to me, so im going to return the favor and make it like new again. :) Can't believe your KX still ran with a busted power valve... let alone ran well. :D
Well this weekend Im going to move the tore down KX into the basement, give me something to do over the winter. Ill keep you guys updated. :)
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Hey Pickles,
Glad you liked the article. For anyone that has the patience to read the entire EPA document you will find out that the EPA is not evil but was more than willing to work with the manufacturers to improve emissions. In fact it seemed that one of the Big 4 was dead set on moving to four-strokes... and one of the Big 5 was interested in two-stroke technology. I wonder which one is which? LOL
When looking at the snowmobiles and outboard engines you find that two-strokes are on the rise. Evenrude has built direct injection machines that meet and exceed the standards, while still being light and powerful. Direct injection has also been used in sleds as well with similar results.
I know for a fact that KTM has some prototype mxers with direct injection. The reports that I have heard is that it works amazingly well.
What's the hold-up? Who knows....
The other aspect to keep in mind with motocross only, is currently the EPA emissions do not apply to closed course racing. Although they do for trail riding and in this area California has been the most influential because the largest majority of dirt bikes are sold there, so it's a real concern for the manufacturers.
The main issue to keep in mind is that the rumors of the EPA banning two-strokes is marketing driven and not a true statement.
To put everything into better perspective buildings (Homes, offices and factories) produce a bit over 38% of CO2 emissions. And as far as I know no one has a catalytic converter on there home furnace...
For those that hate the idea of alternative energy, imagine having a home that used no oil or electricity from a power plant to supply heating, cooling and electricity?? Should the USA move in that direction, the cost of oil would drop and emissions would be much lower. This sounds like a great idea.
Before you go into saying that the alternative forms of power need huge subsidies to be installed, keep in mind a few thoughts. The government currently subsidizes the oil industry to the the tune of $15 to $35 billion dollars per year! You pay this in your taxes.
Add the outrageous costs of the Afganastan and Iraq war that experts believe cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 billion dollars a DAY! The only reason we are in these wars is for oil! We all pay for this in our taxes. You can not find a higher subsidized industry than oil. This is all during a period of time when the oil companies profits have been skyrocketing.
A bunch of people are making tremendous amounts of money, thanks to the American taxpayer.
Now imagine that this level of money was used to research and install alternative energy in large installations across the country. The benefits would be many, including not sending huge amounts of money to the countries that support terrorism and the destruction of the US... second the cost of oil would drop significantly.
All I say is to keep an open mind and look at the big picture. For an example to see how expenses could be cut, look at the upgrades being performed on the Empire State building. By intelligent design they can improve the efficiency of the building by nearly 40%. So the investment in upgrades will be paid back to the owners in 4 years!! Totally unheard of. After that, the cost savings of running the building are tremendous.
Kind of makes you wonder... could it be the fight for oil is the reason the US and the world is in such a bad place financially???
[/off soapbox]
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definitely go for the RM. I have an 07 250 and it is one of the best bikes i have ridden. My brother who is a die hard kawasaki fan took it for a spin and came back saying wow that is a nice bike. has awesome handling and good power and for the price you can get it for i would jump on it
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Welcome to the site Poop. ;D
While I will not argue with my fellow TSM members regarding the "other" brands I will throw in my 2 cent opinion and advise you to think GREEN.
Ah hell just kiddin. If I my financil resources met those opportunities to have then I'd probably go the RM route myself.
Dream bike though is a Service Yamaha YZ300. Look it up fellas its pretty sweet.
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Well, I (re)joined the two stroke revolution today. :)
Picked up a very clean 08 KTM 250 SX. The bike still has the original tires on it and they are at about 80% tread... chain and sprockets look brand new.
The weather here has been quite warm the last week, so I had a chance to run the bike down the back ally and wow what a motor. ;D Easily the beefiest feeling 250 engine Ive had a chance to ride, I'm stoked for spring mx.
I'll have some pictures up tonight. :)
Oh, and when I lifted the bike onto the stand, I instantly remembered the one thing I really hated about that XR650... :D
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Welcome to the site, if you like the perimiter frame of the KX you'll likely like the RM as well, it has a semi perimiter frame, it handles alot quicker than your old KX though, but that's what RM's are known for. there is every aftermarket gizmo you can think of available for the RM as well. And the bike fits a tall rider well.
At that price for a brand new bike, I'd jump on it now, and sell the street bike later.
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enjoy the ktm. great bikes. i had an 06 250sx. it was really fun and basically what i learned to moto on. my buddy just sold his 09 250sx. another great year. the 08 is very close to the 09.
checkout ktmtalk.com for anything and everything ktm.... jetting, suspension, electrical...etc... i joined and became a ''lifetime'' member a few years ago. part of the deal is a 25% discount on all oem parts thru munn racing (there is a link at the top of their page). but it really helps keep the cost of parts down......
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Thanks for the advice Dirt Addict, I'll have to check that site out!
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/Halluci_n8/009.jpg)
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My compliments on that sweet bike of yours! :P
Enjoy it!